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I think a better name for this would be Mac OS series 0. Going back to being serious seeing the source code for LisaOS sounds exciting . Apple changed my life

I think a better name for this would be Mac OS series 0. Going back to being serious seeing the source code for LisaOS sounds exciting . Apple changed my life when I used an Apple 2 in grade school. My first computer I got for Christmas was a G5 iMac. In college I used MacBooks and they replaced one with a newer model. I’m not sure I would have my current job if I wasn’t in Steve’s paradise .

fallous 9y ago
Actually there was a patch for the Lisa that allowed it to run Mac OS and software (maybe called a Mac XL?). I believe it was a combination of ROMs and disks but it's been a day or two since I dealt with that so I may be mis-remembering.
- macintux 9y ago
  I believe you're correct; Mac XL sounds right to me, too.
  - kkylin 9y ago
    Yup, Macintosh XL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_XL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_XL). I remember a company (forget the name, likely long gone) at a Macworld Expo (in Moscone!) in the late 80s or early 90s selling refurbished Lisas and Mac XLs.
    - fallous 9y ago
      Sun (something or other)... they were an Apple reseller that not only did the refurbs but also wrote the software that allowed the Lisa to run 128K ROM Mac stuff.
      - unadopted 9y ago
        SunRem I think
Waterluvian 9y ago
ResEdit changed my life as a kid. I basically made a full game conversion at age 9 using ResEdit a basic draw application, and a Midi keyboard over serial on the family LCIII
cmrdporcupine 9y ago
LisaOS really was a different beast than Mac OS, and very little code was shared between the two from what I've read. Just some QuickDraw code is my understanding. LisaOS was multitasking and more object oriented and more like a true OS from the start. I'm super excited to be able to read the sources now.
- dreamcompiler 9y ago
  Yep. In some ways LisaOS was ahead of where MacOS is now. It had stationery pads, for example, and it just felt snappier. On a processor 1/1000 as fast as a current Mac.
  - armadsen 9y ago
    macOS actually has stationery pads! https://www.macworld.com/article/1161619/software-utilities/stationary-pad.html https://www.macworld.com/article/1161619/software-utilities/... But Lisa OS was amazing, and was ahead of the original macOS in many ways: preemptive multitasking, way nicer error messages, hierarchical files system, a more fully fleshed out desktop/document metaphor, etc. I think the Lisa OS's error messages are still better than macOS's.
    - exikyut 9y ago
      <Neurotic pedantry> The GP quoted "MacOS" when the correct capitalization would indeed have been "macOS". What you're referring to is most correctly termed the Macintosh System Software, which is way too long and could also be referred to as the System Software or System. The camelCase capitalization is a 2017 thing, not a 1984 thing. </Neurotic pedantry> I'm not sure what point MacOS got its name.
      - unadopted 9y ago
        It was around the time of System 7.5 when the MacOS bootscreen was added I think. But names like “System 7.5” were also used. A confusing time!
eesmith 9y ago
I feel that calling it "Mac OS series 0" comes too close to a touchy subject for it to be considered a better name. Raskin's original vision for the Macintosh project was a text-based UI. (The Canon Cat was a descendant of that design.) Only later did Macintosh gain support for the Lisa-style graphical programs. I don't know the timeline, but I can point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh which says: > Smith's first Macintosh board was built to Raskin's design specifications: it had 64 kilobytes (kB) of RAM, used the 8-bit Motorola 6809E microprocessor, and was capable of supporting a 256×256-pixel black-and-white bitmap display. Bud Tribble, a member of the Mac team, was interested in running the Apple Lisa's graphical programs on the Macintosh, and asked Smith whether he could incorporate the Lisa's Motorola 68000 microprocessor into the Mac while still keeping the production cost down. By December 1980, Smith had succeeded ... Then at https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Scrooge_McDuck.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor... you read that "the very first prototype of the very first Macintosh sprung to life early in the first month of the new decade, in January 1980" with the 6809E. That would be before the 68000 was added. If that prototype - or any prototype before the 68000 was added - had an operating system, then that should be called "Mac OS series 0."
- DonHopkins 9y ago
  Wow, the 6809 was the Chrysler Cordoba of 8 bit microprocessors! It was tastefully luxurious and highly orthogonal, sporting a powerful hardware multiply instruction, and soft Corinthian Leather. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809 https://youtu.be/tfKHBB4vt4c?t=10s https://youtu.be/tfKHBB4vt4c?t=10s But I'm sure glad they ended up using the 68K for the Mac.
  - cmrdporcupine 9y ago
    Using a 6809 they could have made a far cheaper, far more accessible machine. Moving to the 68000 meant moving to more expensive support chips, and required more RAM, and the like. But it did mean they could use the QuickDraw code from the Lisa. And in the end the Mac interface ended up being a kind of dumbed down ripped off version of the Lisa, instead of the Jeff Raskin thing with hot keys and the like of early prototypes. I just wish they'd worked instead on making an actual cost reduced Lisa, using the same Lisa OS, but without the crappy copy protection and the overpriced hardware...

fallous 9y ago

Actually there was a patch for the Lisa that allowed it to run Mac OS and software (maybe called a Mac XL?). I believe it was a combination of ROMs and disks but it's been a day or two since I dealt with that so I may be mis-remembering.

macintux 9y ago
I believe you're correct; Mac XL sounds right to me, too.
- kkylin 9y ago
  Yup, Macintosh XL (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_XL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_XL). I remember a company (forget the name, likely long gone) at a Macworld Expo (in Moscone!) in the late 80s or early 90s selling refurbished Lisas and Mac XLs.
  - fallous 9y ago
    Sun (something or other)... they were an Apple reseller that not only did the refurbs but also wrote the software that allowed the Lisa to run 128K ROM Mac stuff.
    - unadopted 9y ago
      SunRem I think

Waterluvian 9y ago

ResEdit changed my life as a kid. I basically made a full game conversion at age 9 using ResEdit a basic draw application, and a Midi keyboard over serial on the family LCIII

cmrdporcupine 9y ago

LisaOS really was a different beast than Mac OS, and very little code was shared between the two from what I've read. Just some QuickDraw code is my understanding. LisaOS was multitasking and more object oriented and more like a true OS from the start. I'm super excited to be able to read the sources now.

dreamcompiler 9y ago
Yep. In some ways LisaOS was ahead of where MacOS is now. It had stationery pads, for example, and it just felt snappier. On a processor 1/1000 as fast as a current Mac.
- armadsen 9y ago
  macOS actually has stationery pads! https://www.macworld.com/article/1161619/software-utilities/stationary-pad.html https://www.macworld.com/article/1161619/software-utilities/... But Lisa OS was amazing, and was ahead of the original macOS in many ways: preemptive multitasking, way nicer error messages, hierarchical files system, a more fully fleshed out desktop/document metaphor, etc. I think the Lisa OS's error messages are still better than macOS's.
  - exikyut 9y ago
    <Neurotic pedantry> The GP quoted "MacOS" when the correct capitalization would indeed have been "macOS". What you're referring to is most correctly termed the Macintosh System Software, which is way too long and could also be referred to as the System Software or System. The camelCase capitalization is a 2017 thing, not a 1984 thing. </Neurotic pedantry> I'm not sure what point MacOS got its name.
    - unadopted 9y ago
      It was around the time of System 7.5 when the MacOS bootscreen was added I think. But names like “System 7.5” were also used. A confusing time!

eesmith 9y ago

I feel that calling it "Mac OS series 0" comes too close to a touchy subject for it to be considered a better name. Raskin's original vision for the Macintosh project was a text-based UI. (The Canon Cat was a descendant of that design.) Only later did Macintosh gain support for the Lisa-style graphical programs. I don't know the timeline, but I can point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh which says: > Smith's first Macintosh board was built to Raskin's design specifications: it had 64 kilobytes (kB) of RAM, used the 8-bit Motorola 6809E microprocessor, and was capable of supporting a 256×256-pixel black-and-white bitmap display. Bud Tribble, a member of the Mac team, was interested in running the Apple Lisa's graphical programs on the Macintosh, and asked Smith whether he could incorporate the Lisa's Motorola 68000 microprocessor into the Mac while still keeping the production cost down. By December 1980, Smith had succeeded ... Then at https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Scrooge_McDuck.txt&sortOrder=Sort+by+Date https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor... you read that "the very first prototype of the very first Macintosh sprung to life early in the first month of the new decade, in January 1980" with the 6809E. That would be before the 68000 was added. If that prototype - or any prototype before the 68000 was added - had an operating system, then that should be called "Mac OS series 0."

DonHopkins 9y ago
Wow, the 6809 was the Chrysler Cordoba of 8 bit microprocessors! It was tastefully luxurious and highly orthogonal, sporting a powerful hardware multiply instruction, and soft Corinthian Leather. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_6809 https://youtu.be/tfKHBB4vt4c?t=10s https://youtu.be/tfKHBB4vt4c?t=10s But I'm sure glad they ended up using the 68K for the Mac.
- cmrdporcupine 9y ago
  Using a 6809 they could have made a far cheaper, far more accessible machine. Moving to the 68000 meant moving to more expensive support chips, and required more RAM, and the like. But it did mean they could use the QuickDraw code from the Lisa. And in the end the Mac interface ended up being a kind of dumbed down ripped off version of the Lisa, instead of the Jeff Raskin thing with hot keys and the like of early prototypes. I just wish they'd worked instead on making an actual cost reduced Lisa, using the same Lisa OS, but without the crappy copy protection and the overpriced hardware...