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There's a serious problem with our own (US) culture's ability to think clearly about the problem posed by Chinese authoritarianism in the 21st century. I would

There's a serious problem with our own (US) culture's ability to think clearly about the problem posed by Chinese authoritarianism in the 21st century. I would attribute the problem to our tendency for centrism, both-sideism, and probably to the just-world hypothesis. People are tempted to bury it in a larger narrative of global complexity, thinking that treating it like a trick question is evidence of sophistication. But what if it's not a trick question?

bufordsharkley 9y ago
Some things are not cut-and-dry. Some are. Something like abolitionism has been justified by history as mere common sense, and an absolutely necessary component of a humane society. I'm curious how China currently views Sun Yat-sen's "Three Principles of the People"[0], one of which is Democracy. Does his philosophy attract any attention today? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People
- yorwba 9y ago
  China takes Democracy (民主) very seriously. You'll see it on propaganda banners everywhere. You see, the leadership is democratically appointed by the will of the people. The 100% majority of the CCP is completely justified by its benevolent rule. /s There is no need to abandon old principles when you can just use doublethink to make them mean whatever you want them to mean.
- marcosdumay 9y ago
  > Something like abolitionism has been justified by history as mere common sense, and an absolutely necessary component of a humane society. If taxation by a non-representative government isn't as much common sense as abolitionism, it's only because of a huge amount of propaganda. It is not even much fundamentally different from slavery.
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    >It is not even much fundamentally different from slavery. Yes it is.
    - marcosdumay 9y ago
      How so? What is that large difference? Authoritarian states deal with their people basically as if they were their property. They dispose of their lives at will, they dictate what they think and what they work on, they take their labor at will.
      - lostlogin 9y ago
        Sorry, I misunderstood your original comment as referring to the the US. However I don’t think that the system in China is like what happened with slavery (it is China you refer to?). People aren’t kidnapped, chained and transported in conditions that kill large numbers. They aren’t traded in degrading markets and are not routinely beaten to death or mutilated by masters. They aren’t branded. As bad as conditions currently are it doesn’t seem like slavery to me.
        marcosdumay 9y ago
        I wasn't talking specifically about China, or specifically about America colonialism style slavery. But I would bet that there are plenty of people kidnaped and forcefully transported around the country on China for labor, that's what that kind of government normally does. They may not be traded on degrading markets, but that just make people valueless from the point of view of a dictatorship. And I do actually expect people are being mutilated by the Chinese government all the time, we just probably don't hear about it. Again, that what this kind of government normally does.
mutteraloo 9y ago
Or maybe you're just under their marketing and propaganda. here are some things the authoritarian government did just this year - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php - China Blowing Major Bubbles In 2017 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubble-economy-2017/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubb... - In locked-down Xinjiang, China is tracking kitchen knives with QR codes https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-knives-branded-with-owners-qr-codes https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-... - Big data meets Big Brother as China moves to rate its citizens http://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese-government-social-credit-score-privacy-invasion http://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese-government-social-cre... - China threatens U.S. Congress for crossing its ‘red line’ on Taiwan https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/10/12/china-threatens-u-s-congress-for-crossing-its-red-line-on-taiwan/?utm_term=.109e3e68a65e https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/10/12... - Joe Hockey’s stark warning to Australia over Chinese interference http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/joe-hockeys-stark-warning-to-australia-over-chinese-interference/news-story/0131a56a27a6ce8658aa065e805c8947 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/joe-hockeys... - Chinese diplomat in U.S. threatens Taiwan with military attack https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3316709 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3316709
- Dolores12 9y ago
  > - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php Love your arguments like this. How about the ban allows everyone to breath fresh air during winter instead of byproducts of coal burning? Omg, few families is going to be shivers. Many more will thank its government for that step. You are welcome to visit Beijing to experience constant smog yourself. I highly doubt you want your children to live in such environment.
  - mutteraloo 9y ago
    Or you know, the government could just stop the polluting factories from polluting

bufordsharkley 9y ago

Some things are not cut-and-dry. Some are. Something like abolitionism has been justified by history as mere common sense, and an absolutely necessary component of a humane society. I'm curious how China currently views Sun Yat-sen's "Three Principles of the People"[0], one of which is Democracy. Does his philosophy attract any attention today? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People

yorwba 9y ago
China takes Democracy (民主) very seriously. You'll see it on propaganda banners everywhere. You see, the leadership is democratically appointed by the will of the people. The 100% majority of the CCP is completely justified by its benevolent rule. /s There is no need to abandon old principles when you can just use doublethink to make them mean whatever you want them to mean.
marcosdumay 9y ago
> Something like abolitionism has been justified by history as mere common sense, and an absolutely necessary component of a humane society. If taxation by a non-representative government isn't as much common sense as abolitionism, it's only because of a huge amount of propaganda. It is not even much fundamentally different from slavery.
- lostlogin 9y ago
  >It is not even much fundamentally different from slavery. Yes it is.
  - marcosdumay 9y ago
    How so? What is that large difference? Authoritarian states deal with their people basically as if they were their property. They dispose of their lives at will, they dictate what they think and what they work on, they take their labor at will.
    - lostlogin 9y ago
      Sorry, I misunderstood your original comment as referring to the the US. However I don’t think that the system in China is like what happened with slavery (it is China you refer to?). People aren’t kidnapped, chained and transported in conditions that kill large numbers. They aren’t traded in degrading markets and are not routinely beaten to death or mutilated by masters. They aren’t branded. As bad as conditions currently are it doesn’t seem like slavery to me.
      - marcosdumay 9y ago
        I wasn't talking specifically about China, or specifically about America colonialism style slavery. But I would bet that there are plenty of people kidnaped and forcefully transported around the country on China for labor, that's what that kind of government normally does. They may not be traded on degrading markets, but that just make people valueless from the point of view of a dictatorship. And I do actually expect people are being mutilated by the Chinese government all the time, we just probably don't hear about it. Again, that what this kind of government normally does.

mutteraloo 9y ago

Or maybe you're just under their marketing and propaganda. here are some things the authoritarian government did just this year - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php - China Blowing Major Bubbles In 2017 https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubble-economy-2017/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/12/19/china-bubb... - In locked-down Xinjiang, China is tracking kitchen knives with QR codes https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-knives-branded-with-owners-qr-codes https://www.fastcompany.com/40510238/in-xinjiang-china-some-... - Big data meets Big Brother as China moves to rate its citizens http://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese-government-social-credit-score-privacy-invasion http://www.wired.co.uk/article/chinese-government-social-cre... - China threatens U.S. Congress for crossing its ‘red line’ on Taiwan https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/10/12/china-threatens-u-s-congress-for-crossing-its-red-line-on-taiwan/?utm_term=.109e3e68a65e https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/josh-rogin/wp/2017/10/12... - Joe Hockey’s stark warning to Australia over Chinese interference http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/joe-hockeys-stark-warning-to-australia-over-chinese-interference/news-story/0131a56a27a6ce8658aa065e805c8947 http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/joe-hockeys... - Chinese diplomat in U.S. threatens Taiwan with military attack https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3316709 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3316709

Dolores12 9y ago
> - China puts a freeze on burning coal, leaving millions of families shivering in the cold http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php http://shanghaiist.com/2017/12/05/coal-ban.php Love your arguments like this. How about the ban allows everyone to breath fresh air during winter instead of byproducts of coal burning? Omg, few families is going to be shivers. Many more will thank its government for that step. You are welcome to visit Beijing to experience constant smog yourself. I highly doubt you want your children to live in such environment.
- mutteraloo 9y ago
  Or you know, the government could just stop the polluting factories from polluting