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As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been driving the

As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been driving the price lately, even for the coins that shouldn't be pumping. It was almost as if the entire cryptocurrency space had turned into a huge unregulated casino. I was at a couple of Bitcoin meetups recently and was surprised to find that most attendees were proudly saying that it doesn't matter if they understand how the technology works. It's one thing to not understand what you're gambling with, it's a whole another matter if everyone is actually proud about their very ignorance and even thinks of their ignorance (yet I'm still making money!) as being clever. Unlike what some people pointed out in this thread, the price going down is not from people who got rich quick and sold. It's a panic sell. That's what happens when you gamble with something you don't understand.

nxsynonym 9y ago
Unfortunately the high price and get-rich-quick stories associated with Cryptocurrencies in general will overshadow and hinder meaningful technological progress. The best thing that could happen for any meaningful development would be a crash down to 2016 levels and a stagnation period. Let the hype fade away and get back to making something useful, instead of trying to pump and dump.
- canes123456 9y ago
  Yeah but if it falls to 2016 levels it will spike and fall many times as people try to get it back to 2017 levels.
aviv 9y ago
Just FYI and very anecdotal, I know a guy who was confronted in the parking lot after a bitcoin meetup by 2 guys demanding that he send some coins to their wallet. Be careful at those meetups.
- ohquu 9y ago
  Well, what did he do?
  - aviv 9y ago
    2nd amendment my friend. Note to criminals: don't try this in Arizona.
    - dsacco 9y ago
      Your friend shot them?
      - aviv 9y ago
        Luckily for them it didn't have to go that far, but he did pull it and they immediately took off. He then got in his car and called the police to report what happened.
        rhexs 9y ago
        So he brandished a weapon when his life wasn't in danger? Isn't that illegal?
        aviv 9y ago
        His life was most definitely in danger.
        dwild 9y ago
        There seems to be missing something in your story to show danger. They just asked for his cash, nothing show any sign in danger in that. Would you pull out a gun because someone asked you for food too? Was there a threat? Which kind of threat? Did it look like these guys had the means to carry that threat and did it look like they actually were going to carry that threat? I wouldn't kill a guy in hope to get a few thousand dollars. There are cars that are worth much more than I could steal and risk much less than a homicide sentence (which I guess is pretty high in Arizona). I don't believe his life was in danger, but I'm also not living in a country where people think their life is constantly in danger and they have to carry gun for their safety. That mentality is dangerous in itself and may justify itself sadly. Having a gun in any interaction escalate way too quickly any risk.
Cthulhu_ 9y ago
> It was almost as if the entire cryptocurrency space had turned into a huge unregulated casino. [/thread]. That's really what it is, but instead of casino, call it a stock market. With that one there's a lot of regulation in place - including new European legislation, MiFID II (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-305_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-305_en.htm), which in part is aimed at protecting clueless investors from themselves. The crypto market doesn't have this, so a lot of people jump on this, consider themselves subject matter experts after a few days or weeks of reading up on stuff and following relevant subreddits, and getting swept up in the hypes (even if they don't think they are. I don't think I am. wait.) It's the same with stock market trading, you don't need to understand how the company you're investing in works, the only thing that really matters is how much other people are interested in the company (or crypto). The value of cryptocurrencies is not based on technology or how it works, it's based on supply and demand, which in turn is driven by trust and hype. Not unlike the stock market in a less regulated age.
- cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
  I agree and disagree. I agree that currently it's purely based on speculative supply and demand. But I disagree that's what cryptocurrency is. Bitcoin became popular because people actually used it to buy and sell stuff in the early days. And its main value was that it could provide very low transaction fee. Nowadays that's become impossible because the BTC transaction fee has risen to a ridiculous state. For something to function as currency it needs fungibility. That used to exist in BTC but it's gone now. They're trying to come up with a solution with lightning network, sidechains, etc. But in the meantime all the vendors who used to take payments in Bitcoin have all pulled off because of the transaction fee. And we see all the other cryptocurrencies have risen up because BTC couldn't provide the value it used to provide. To be honest it's been pathetic watching the "civil war" between Bitcoin people because they've been deluded enough to believe they've already won that they were doing petty in-fighting over ego. This crash should be a wakeup call for those complacent devs to realize there's still long way to go. So you're right that currently BTC deserves to drop all the way down, because it doesn't deserve to be a currency. Which is why I'm glad this happened. Because I was getting sick of all those people who've been parroting the "Bitcoin is fine as just a store of value" narrative. It's not, and this crash is the proof. All those people who thought they were "storing value" when there was no fungibility deserve to learn it the hard way.
monob 9y ago
This is the 4th time this has happened. Why is anyone surprised? The only shocking thing about this bubble is that it took 3 years.
- tim333 9y ago
  Depends on how you define "this" but bitcoin seems to have similar drops every few months. This time on Dec 22 it just dropped to where it was on Dec 6th and seems to have recovered a little.
johnwheeler 9y ago
I would argue that by holding cryptocurrency you’re de facto playing a game with rules you don’t understand (investing).
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  Rules? Isn't one of the founding principles that it's unregulated.
  - johnwheeler 9y ago
    Rule #1: Human nature has implicit, immutable rules.
    - passwordreset 9y ago
      Rule #2: stop bullshitting yourself, there are no rules.
autokad 9y ago
the price is going down because an exchange got hacked. that is never good for people and the cryptocurrencies
JustAnotherPat 9y ago
>As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been driving the price lately, even for the coins that shouldn't be pumping. you say this as if it won't happen again and again. 95%+ of crypto ownership is pure speculation. There are coins in the top 15 that don't even have existing networks yet.
icedchai 9y ago
Turned into? I think it's always been a huge unregulated casino. (BTW, I've been in bitcoin since 2011.)
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
cabaalis 9y ago
It may be an unpopular statement, but I believe that even enthusiasts and long-time supporters such as yourself know just about as much regarding the actual value of bitcoin as people who are caught up in the hype.
- sprt 9y ago
  Note the parent is talking about technology, not value. As far as actual value is concerned, your statement is fair enough since we all know the same amount: fuck all.
sireat 9y ago
I am still trying to find fundamental cryptocurrency developments in 2017. 2011 were the first steps in BTC usability. 2013 was the rise of alt-coins and also BTC became actually usable(mostly due to Bitpay and Gyft) 2017 it seems all speculation. So let's take top (by market value on 12/22/2017) crypto-currencies: 1. Bitcoin - first mover, slow, expensive to use pivoted to store of value 2. Ethereum - smart contracts enabling ICO craze despite horrible contract programming language 3. Bitcoin Cash - moving to replace BTC in usability(Bitpay), but large single entity(Bitmain) influence 4. Ripple - building backbone for financial institutions, but otherwise just speculation 5. Litecoin - my 2nd love after BTC has not really advanced since 2013 and lead dev just sold all -> just speculation still 6. Cardano - smart, open, unusable -> just speculation 7. IOTA - IoT currency, premined, again why does this need high value? 8. Dash - at least has some merchant acceptance, but still pitiful 9. NEM - buzzwords but again unusable -> just speculation 10. Bitcoin Gold - BTC fork with ASIC resistance -> just speculation 11. Monero - black market usability rising 12. EOS - impressive buzzwords, unclear on why tokens should have high value 13. Stellar - a few name drops but unclear on usability 14. NEO - what a name pivot, otherwise just a vision and speculation 15. QTUM - smart apps, plus a few DAPPS, any good? 16. Ethereum Classic - the one that honors badly written smart contracts Out of these, BTC and Ethereum seem likely to stay at some value despite their flaws just because of their originality. Out of rest, Dash, Monero and Bitcoin Cash seem like potentially useful for the general public. The rest, what use are they for the general public? Even if we assume all are honest and produce something useful for many of these tokens it is unclear why should general public care about buying tokens. For example why should Ripple be valued by public and speculated upon when it is only its backbone that is to be used by bigbanks? Disclaimer: despite mining some since 2011 I am really sceptical about most crypto currencies. TLDR; besides white papers what actually became usable in 2017?
- gremlinsinc 9y ago
  Mark my words -- by the end of 2018, Ardor will be in the top 5 list if it doesn't unseat Ethereum.
- lurr 9y ago
  I wonder if crypto currency will survive, or if we end up with Blockchain being a useful technology and smart contracts having niche applications and still worth a lot.
joelinuxyx 9y ago
One problem with cyrptocurancy is its decentralized model and instability; that is why institutions are more interested in Ripple and similar solutions.

nxsynonym 9y ago

Unfortunately the high price and get-rich-quick stories associated with Cryptocurrencies in general will overshadow and hinder meaningful technological progress. The best thing that could happen for any meaningful development would be a crash down to 2016 levels and a stagnation period. Let the hype fade away and get back to making something useful, instead of trying to pump and dump.

canes123456 9y ago
Yeah but if it falls to 2016 levels it will spike and fall many times as people try to get it back to 2017 levels.

aviv 9y ago

Just FYI and very anecdotal, I know a guy who was confronted in the parking lot after a bitcoin meetup by 2 guys demanding that he send some coins to their wallet. Be careful at those meetups.

ohquu 9y ago
Well, what did he do?
- aviv 9y ago
  2nd amendment my friend. Note to criminals: don't try this in Arizona.
  - dsacco 9y ago
    Your friend shot them?
    - aviv 9y ago
      Luckily for them it didn't have to go that far, but he did pull it and they immediately took off. He then got in his car and called the police to report what happened.
      - rhexs 9y ago
        So he brandished a weapon when his life wasn't in danger? Isn't that illegal?
        aviv 9y ago
        His life was most definitely in danger.
        dwild 9y ago
        There seems to be missing something in your story to show danger. They just asked for his cash, nothing show any sign in danger in that. Would you pull out a gun because someone asked you for food too? Was there a threat? Which kind of threat? Did it look like these guys had the means to carry that threat and did it look like they actually were going to carry that threat? I wouldn't kill a guy in hope to get a few thousand dollars. There are cars that are worth much more than I could steal and risk much less than a homicide sentence (which I guess is pretty high in Arizona). I don't believe his life was in danger, but I'm also not living in a country where people think their life is constantly in danger and they have to carry gun for their safety. That mentality is dangerous in itself and may justify itself sadly. Having a gun in any interaction escalate way too quickly any risk.

Cthulhu_ 9y ago

> It was almost as if the entire cryptocurrency space had turned into a huge unregulated casino. [/thread]. That's really what it is, but instead of casino, call it a stock market. With that one there's a lot of regulation in place - including new European legislation, MiFID II (http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-305_en.htm http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-14-305_en.htm), which in part is aimed at protecting clueless investors from themselves. The crypto market doesn't have this, so a lot of people jump on this, consider themselves subject matter experts after a few days or weeks of reading up on stuff and following relevant subreddits, and getting swept up in the hypes (even if they don't think they are. I don't think I am. wait.) It's the same with stock market trading, you don't need to understand how the company you're investing in works, the only thing that really matters is how much other people are interested in the company (or crypto). The value of cryptocurrencies is not based on technology or how it works, it's based on supply and demand, which in turn is driven by trust and hype. Not unlike the stock market in a less regulated age.

cocktailpeanuts 9y ago
I agree and disagree. I agree that currently it's purely based on speculative supply and demand. But I disagree that's what cryptocurrency is. Bitcoin became popular because people actually used it to buy and sell stuff in the early days. And its main value was that it could provide very low transaction fee. Nowadays that's become impossible because the BTC transaction fee has risen to a ridiculous state. For something to function as currency it needs fungibility. That used to exist in BTC but it's gone now. They're trying to come up with a solution with lightning network, sidechains, etc. But in the meantime all the vendors who used to take payments in Bitcoin have all pulled off because of the transaction fee. And we see all the other cryptocurrencies have risen up because BTC couldn't provide the value it used to provide. To be honest it's been pathetic watching the "civil war" between Bitcoin people because they've been deluded enough to believe they've already won that they were doing petty in-fighting over ego. This crash should be a wakeup call for those complacent devs to realize there's still long way to go. So you're right that currently BTC deserves to drop all the way down, because it doesn't deserve to be a currency. Which is why I'm glad this happened. Because I was getting sick of all those people who've been parroting the "Bitcoin is fine as just a store of value" narrative. It's not, and this crash is the proof. All those people who thought they were "storing value" when there was no fungibility deserve to learn it the hard way.

monob 9y ago

This is the 4th time this has happened. Why is anyone surprised? The only shocking thing about this bubble is that it took 3 years.

tim333 9y ago
Depends on how you define "this" but bitcoin seems to have similar drops every few months. This time on Dec 22 it just dropped to where it was on Dec 6th and seems to have recovered a little.

johnwheeler 9y ago

I would argue that by holding cryptocurrency you’re de facto playing a game with rules you don’t understand (investing).

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
Rules? Isn't one of the founding principles that it's unregulated.
- johnwheeler 9y ago
  Rule #1: Human nature has implicit, immutable rules.
  - passwordreset 9y ago
    Rule #2: stop bullshitting yourself, there are no rules.

autokad 9y ago

the price is going down because an exchange got hacked. that is never good for people and the cryptocurrencies

JustAnotherPat 9y ago

>As someone who owns and believes in cryptocurrency, I'm actually glad this happened. I was getting sick of all the get rich quick people who've been driving the price lately, even for the coins that shouldn't be pumping. you say this as if it won't happen again and again. 95%+ of crypto ownership is pure speculation. There are coins in the top 15 that don't even have existing networks yet.

icedchai 9y ago

Turned into? I think it's always been a huge unregulated casino. (BTW, I've been in bitcoin since 2011.)

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

cabaalis 9y ago

It may be an unpopular statement, but I believe that even enthusiasts and long-time supporters such as yourself know just about as much regarding the actual value of bitcoin as people who are caught up in the hype.

sprt 9y ago
Note the parent is talking about technology, not value. As far as actual value is concerned, your statement is fair enough since we all know the same amount: fuck all.

sireat 9y ago

I am still trying to find fundamental cryptocurrency developments in 2017. 2011 were the first steps in BTC usability. 2013 was the rise of alt-coins and also BTC became actually usable(mostly due to Bitpay and Gyft) 2017 it seems all speculation. So let's take top (by market value on 12/22/2017) crypto-currencies: 1. Bitcoin - first mover, slow, expensive to use pivoted to store of value 2. Ethereum - smart contracts enabling ICO craze despite horrible contract programming language 3. Bitcoin Cash - moving to replace BTC in usability(Bitpay), but large single entity(Bitmain) influence 4. Ripple - building backbone for financial institutions, but otherwise just speculation 5. Litecoin - my 2nd love after BTC has not really advanced since 2013 and lead dev just sold all -> just speculation still 6. Cardano - smart, open, unusable -> just speculation 7. IOTA - IoT currency, premined, again why does this need high value? 8. Dash - at least has some merchant acceptance, but still pitiful 9. NEM - buzzwords but again unusable -> just speculation 10. Bitcoin Gold - BTC fork with ASIC resistance -> just speculation 11. Monero - black market usability rising 12. EOS - impressive buzzwords, unclear on why tokens should have high value 13. Stellar - a few name drops but unclear on usability 14. NEO - what a name pivot, otherwise just a vision and speculation 15. QTUM - smart apps, plus a few DAPPS, any good? 16. Ethereum Classic - the one that honors badly written smart contracts Out of these, BTC and Ethereum seem likely to stay at some value despite their flaws just because of their originality. Out of rest, Dash, Monero and Bitcoin Cash seem like potentially useful for the general public. The rest, what use are they for the general public? Even if we assume all are honest and produce something useful for many of these tokens it is unclear why should general public care about buying tokens. For example why should Ripple be valued by public and speculated upon when it is only its backbone that is to be used by bigbanks? Disclaimer: despite mining some since 2011 I am really sceptical about most crypto currencies. TLDR; besides white papers what actually became usable in 2017?

gremlinsinc 9y ago
Mark my words -- by the end of 2018, Ardor will be in the top 5 list if it doesn't unseat Ethereum.
lurr 9y ago
I wonder if crypto currency will survive, or if we end up with Blockchain being a useful technology and smart contracts having niche applications and still worth a lot.

joelinuxyx 9y ago

One problem with cyrptocurancy is its decentralized model and instability; that is why institutions are more interested in Ripple and similar solutions.