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One of the worst things about the current tax code (and soon-to-be new tax law) is the cost of compliance. You can argue about high tax or low tax and who shoul

One of the worst things about the current tax code (and soon-to-be new tax law) is the cost of compliance. You can argue about high tax or low tax and who should pay more than whom, but cost and time to comply does not create any value and is an artificial way that we make our country less competitive. This article is a clear example of that, laying out 10 different things you need to know with complicated formulas for deduction and professions that do and do not get benefits. What a mess.

maxxxxx 9y ago
Congress is full of lawyers who assume that everyone has access to lawyers. That's why everything is so complex. In reality the big guys have lawyers on retainer and can handle the laws and the little guy is at a disadvantage. The same happens in a lot of companies. IT develops rules for IT people and the regular user is screwed.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  > Congress is full of lawyers who assume that everyone has access to lawyers. That's why everything is so complex. In reality the big guys have lawyers on retainer and can handle the laws and the little guy is at a disadvantage. Generally these changes have some sort of champion requesting them and don't just arise from the ether. I'm not sure we can explain it all away as Congress not realizing that their decisions will advantage large business interests at the expense of smaller ones, particularly when the beneficiaries are also sponsors.
joelrunyon 9y ago
This. I think I would be willing to pay a higher total flat tax if it was just simpler. Right now, I spend a few thousand/year and an annoying amount of time to make sure I'm doing it right.
- munk-a 9y ago
  I think everyone* wants this, and this is how it works in Sweden where most people get mailed a pre-filled tax form and just have to vet the information and direct the refund/pay the bill. In the US there is a not small industry of tax preparers that exists solely due to the complexity of our tax code. The complexity is there to keep H&R Block, TurboTax etc... in business by encouraging middle/low income people to keep returning to them every year. I am amazed at how far from the stated goal of "We want you to do your taxes on an index card" this bill is going to come out as... and saddened that the majority of voters supporting the GOP won't feel fleeced by it. *(with the exception of those preparers that very much want to keep the complexity and rich people/large businesses that can exploit loopholes effectively)
  - joelrunyon 9y ago
    I'm not sure people will feel "fleeced" since most people (~80%) are getting a tax cut - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bill-calculator/?utm_term=.38d3832f7d71 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bi...
    - curun1r 9y ago
      They'll only feel fleeced when the follow-up cuts to Social Security and Medicare get felt. Republicans have been very careful to say that only the benefits of current recipients of those programs won't see cuts. The rest of us who aren't yet retired will take a pretty huge hit in retirement. That's where we're being fleeced. Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced, but anyone who understands the concept of saving for retirement should be able to put together that we're having our tax burden lessened by $1k-$2k per year and, in exchange, needing to almost entirely fend for ourselves in retirement.
      - joelrunyon 9y ago
        > Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced It's not a tax return, it's a tax cut. That means the government is taking less money from me (not giving me more money). I don't know anyone under 35 that's actually counting on SS on being there for them (not saying they're happy about, but most realized 10+ years ago that it's not gonna happen). That was a reality before this happened.
jfaucett 9y ago
completely agree with this sentiment. I've often wished a test city/state would be allowed to just do a flat tax and completely remove all tax code and see what happens. Obviously the convolutedness is a barrier to entry to small startups and a unfair advantage for established market entities. Also I'd love to see an experiment on a zero tax law that basically amounted to no taxes unless the business/person earned a net profit of something deemed reasonable (say 30-50k in a modern society). Why our societies constantly try to suffocate individuals trying to innovate and create value for his fellow members of society is beyond me.
- techsupporter 9y ago
  > I've often wished a test city/state would be allowed to just do a flat tax I don't want a flat tax (as in "all income taxed at 15%," let's say) because a flat tax has an unfair impact on people at lower income levels. But, otherwise, I agree with your entire post. Here's my ideal law, with the caveat that I have zero legal training beyond six seasons of Law and Order and four seasons of Suits: (1) The following marginal rates are established: (Emphasis here: these numbers are made up for demonstration purposes only.) - $0 through $13,000: 0% - $13,001 through $25,000: 5% - $25,001 through $46,000: 8% - and so on (2) All money earned, by whatever means and from whatever source, by a person or legal entity resident in the United States shall be subject to the tax specified above. (3) The Internal Revenue Service shall, no later than the 15th of April of each calendar year (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of April if the 15th of April falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday), prepare and mail to each holder of an EIN, each person for whom any tax or income declaration form (such as W2, 1098, 1099, and similar) has been submitted to the IRS, a statement of what the IRS believes the taxpayer owes or is due as a refund. (4) If the IRS has notified the taxpayer that the IRS believes the taxpayer is due a refund, the taxpayer may notify the IRS of a financial account located inside the United States into which such refund shall be deposited or may request a paper check for such refund or, under such rules as the Secretary shall provide, make a request for United States Savings Bonds. Any request must be made within five years of the date the taxpayer knew or reasonably should have known that the refund was due, otherwise the refund is the property of the Treasury absent a showing of exigence. (5) If the IRS has notified the taxpayer that the IRS believes the taxpayer owes additional taxes, the taxpayer shall make payment to the IRS no later than the 15th of July following receipt of said notice (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of July if the 15th of July falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday) by providing the IRS with debit instructions for a financial account located inside the United States or via a paper check or other form of transfer of dollars. (6) In the case that the taxpayer disagrees with a notice provided by the IRS under paragraphs 5 or 6, the taxpayer shall, no later than the 15th of July following receipt of said notice (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of July if the 15th of July falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday), file the tax forms designated by the IRS under such rules as the Secretary shall provide, to indicate what the taxpayer believes is the proper tax due or refund owed. If the taxpayer still owes additional tax, the tax payment shall be due at the time of filing. The IRS shall have 120 days to respond, otherwise the taxpayer's submission is deemed valid and binding upon the IRS. (7) There is no paragraph seven.

maxxxxx 9y ago

Congress is full of lawyers who assume that everyone has access to lawyers. That's why everything is so complex. In reality the big guys have lawyers on retainer and can handle the laws and the little guy is at a disadvantage. The same happens in a lot of companies. IT develops rules for IT people and the regular user is screwed.

emodendroket 9y ago
> Congress is full of lawyers who assume that everyone has access to lawyers. That's why everything is so complex. In reality the big guys have lawyers on retainer and can handle the laws and the little guy is at a disadvantage. Generally these changes have some sort of champion requesting them and don't just arise from the ether. I'm not sure we can explain it all away as Congress not realizing that their decisions will advantage large business interests at the expense of smaller ones, particularly when the beneficiaries are also sponsors.

joelrunyon 9y ago

This. I think I would be willing to pay a higher total flat tax if it was just simpler. Right now, I spend a few thousand/year and an annoying amount of time to make sure I'm doing it right.

munk-a 9y ago
I think everyone* wants this, and this is how it works in Sweden where most people get mailed a pre-filled tax form and just have to vet the information and direct the refund/pay the bill. In the US there is a not small industry of tax preparers that exists solely due to the complexity of our tax code. The complexity is there to keep H&R Block, TurboTax etc... in business by encouraging middle/low income people to keep returning to them every year. I am amazed at how far from the stated goal of "We want you to do your taxes on an index card" this bill is going to come out as... and saddened that the majority of voters supporting the GOP won't feel fleeced by it. *(with the exception of those preparers that very much want to keep the complexity and rich people/large businesses that can exploit loopholes effectively)
- joelrunyon 9y ago
  I'm not sure people will feel "fleeced" since most people (~80%) are getting a tax cut - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bill-calculator/?utm_term=.38d3832f7d71 https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/business/tax-bi...
  - curun1r 9y ago
    They'll only feel fleeced when the follow-up cuts to Social Security and Medicare get felt. Republicans have been very careful to say that only the benefits of current recipients of those programs won't see cuts. The rest of us who aren't yet retired will take a pretty huge hit in retirement. That's where we're being fleeced. Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced, but anyone who understands the concept of saving for retirement should be able to put together that we're having our tax burden lessened by $1k-$2k per year and, in exchange, needing to almost entirely fend for ourselves in retirement.
    - joelrunyon 9y ago
      > Perhaps the people who look at a tax return as free money from the government won't feel fleeced It's not a tax return, it's a tax cut. That means the government is taking less money from me (not giving me more money). I don't know anyone under 35 that's actually counting on SS on being there for them (not saying they're happy about, but most realized 10+ years ago that it's not gonna happen). That was a reality before this happened.

jfaucett 9y ago

completely agree with this sentiment. I've often wished a test city/state would be allowed to just do a flat tax and completely remove all tax code and see what happens. Obviously the convolutedness is a barrier to entry to small startups and a unfair advantage for established market entities. Also I'd love to see an experiment on a zero tax law that basically amounted to no taxes unless the business/person earned a net profit of something deemed reasonable (say 30-50k in a modern society). Why our societies constantly try to suffocate individuals trying to innovate and create value for his fellow members of society is beyond me.

techsupporter 9y ago
> I've often wished a test city/state would be allowed to just do a flat tax I don't want a flat tax (as in "all income taxed at 15%," let's say) because a flat tax has an unfair impact on people at lower income levels. But, otherwise, I agree with your entire post. Here's my ideal law, with the caveat that I have zero legal training beyond six seasons of Law and Order and four seasons of Suits: (1) The following marginal rates are established: (Emphasis here: these numbers are made up for demonstration purposes only.) - $0 through $13,000: 0% - $13,001 through $25,000: 5% - $25,001 through $46,000: 8% - and so on (2) All money earned, by whatever means and from whatever source, by a person or legal entity resident in the United States shall be subject to the tax specified above. (3) The Internal Revenue Service shall, no later than the 15th of April of each calendar year (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of April if the 15th of April falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday), prepare and mail to each holder of an EIN, each person for whom any tax or income declaration form (such as W2, 1098, 1099, and similar) has been submitted to the IRS, a statement of what the IRS believes the taxpayer owes or is due as a refund. (4) If the IRS has notified the taxpayer that the IRS believes the taxpayer is due a refund, the taxpayer may notify the IRS of a financial account located inside the United States into which such refund shall be deposited or may request a paper check for such refund or, under such rules as the Secretary shall provide, make a request for United States Savings Bonds. Any request must be made within five years of the date the taxpayer knew or reasonably should have known that the refund was due, otherwise the refund is the property of the Treasury absent a showing of exigence. (5) If the IRS has notified the taxpayer that the IRS believes the taxpayer owes additional taxes, the taxpayer shall make payment to the IRS no later than the 15th of July following receipt of said notice (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of July if the 15th of July falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday) by providing the IRS with debit instructions for a financial account located inside the United States or via a paper check or other form of transfer of dollars. (6) In the case that the taxpayer disagrees with a notice provided by the IRS under paragraphs 5 or 6, the taxpayer shall, no later than the 15th of July following receipt of said notice (or the next day following the business day after the 15th of July if the 15th of July falls on a Saturday, Sunday, or federal holiday), file the tax forms designated by the IRS under such rules as the Secretary shall provide, to indicate what the taxpayer believes is the proper tax due or refund owed. If the taxpayer still owes additional tax, the tax payment shall be due at the time of filing. The IRS shall have 120 days to respond, otherwise the taxpayer's submission is deemed valid and binding upon the IRS. (7) There is no paragraph seven.