6 ms·

There's another story buried in the Twitter conversation: > Pretty sure this is what killed my friend @shanecomix by proxy. I and numerous other friends of his

There's another story buried in the Twitter conversation: > Pretty sure this is what killed my friend @shanecomix by proxy. I and numerous other friends of his never saw his GoFundMe campaign for insulin. He died $50 shy of his goal. I'm very sorry for your loss, especially complicated by such esoterica. Why exactly does somebody need to start a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for life-critical medicine?

firstplacelast 9y ago
In America, we hate poor people. I mean, none of us say it. In fact, most of us state the opposite. However, a good chunk of us vote for politicians and work for companies that exacerbate the problems of the poor.
- lwansbrough 9y ago
  There’s a difference between hating them hen poor, and being self-interested. That being said, the effects are often the same. And self-interest is an acceptable excuse for people that want to ignore their impact on those around them.
  - disordinary 9y ago
    There does seem to be a culture where poor people are dismissed as being lazy when often that's the opposite of true.
  - rndgermandude 9y ago
    I rarely (actually never I think) heard anybody complain that "I have to pay for somebody else's healthcare?! Socialism sucks" where I live. In the US however that seems to be a different matter for a lot of people. This - to me - goes beyond mere self-interest... It's essentially stating that one is fine with other people suffering and dying just because they are too poor to pay the ridiculous health care premiums in the US or find an employer who does that for them.
    - jjeaff 9y ago
      That's because if you live in the US, you know better. The only people that are going without proper healthcare are those that make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. But that live beyond their means and can't afford other insurance. The very poor have it just fine when it comes to healthcare in the us. It's those that make too much for Medicaid but not enough for private insurance that have a problem.
      - btown 9y ago
        Wow. To say that those who can't afford insurance but are above the Medicaid eligibility requirements (which are only 33% above the federal poverty level) are voluntarily "living beyond their means" is an incredible oversimplification. Unexpected financial hardships, from motor vehicle breakdowns to insufficiently covered health events, can easily cause a family to fall behind on commitments, and any lapse in premium payments can destroy healthcare coverage for the remainder of a calendar year (or more) with little warning. But somehow I don't think anything I can write would convince you to change your beliefs.
        jjeaff 9y ago
        You are providing a legitimate case where people get behind on payments. The thread I responded too was making a case that everyone that isn't rich in the US is completely screwed. Sure, there are some cases where you can't make your commitments, but that isn't everyone. As for little warning, there have been laws requiring ample notice and grace period for a long time now in the US.
    - btown 9y ago
      > find an employer who does that for them Most [0] employers who "offer health care" don't actually pay the premiums for you; they'll usually negotiate a group rate that's better than individual (ACA/ObamaCare) insurance, and perhaps chip in some, but you're still paying the premium yourself. Half of ridiculous still rounds up to ridiculous... [0] http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/employer-paid-health-insurance-is-dying-off/ http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/employer-paid-health-insurance...
maskedSlacker 9y ago
'Murica.
- dang 9y ago
  Please post civil, substantive comments, or no comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hoppa_liza 9y ago
This was discussed here on HN recently. It was deemed a result of the failing health care in the USA. (I do not live there so I do not know the exact details of how particular cases like this happen).
colechristensen 9y ago
Probably because navigating the beurocratic landscape of any government assistance program requires levels of patience, assertiveness, and guile that anyone fully capable of utilizing the services will already have a job that will net enough that they don't need to use the program. Having experienced such programs through others' experiences, I can say that they are very often staffed by underpaid, incompetent employees whom are trying to execute complex programs with perverse incentives designed by compromising committees. The people that need these programs the most are the least capable of dealing with these problems, but almost nobody knows or cares what their troubles are.
- sn9 9y ago
  This may be true of US gov't bureaucracies, but isn't necessarily true of governments in general.
  - bcherny 9y ago
    How do you structure + incentivize government orgs to prevent these sorts of issues?
    - GuiA 9y ago
      It's a hard problem, but I think it lies in great part with the "underpaid, incompetent [government] employees". If you make sure that your government employees are educated, provided with good benefits, feel like they have an impact, etc., the outcomes will invariably be for the better. A very good example of this is teachers. The OECD tells us: "[...]in nearly all countries, when teachers perceive that appraisal and feedback lead to changes in their teaching practice, they also report greater job satisfaction. When teachers believe that appraisal and feedback is performed only for administrative purposes they report less job satisfaction. In addition, teachers who report that they participate in decision making at school also report greater job satisfaction. Indeed, although fewer than a third of teachers believe that teaching is a valued profession in their country, those teachers who report that they can contribute to school decisions are more likely to report that teaching is valued in their society." http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/TALIS-2013-Executive-Summary.pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/TALIS-2013-Executive-Summary.... And other sources tell us that satisfied teachers tend to lead to better outcomes. "TN teachers’ job satisfaction linked to performance scores" https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/02/01/tn-teachers-job-satisfaction-linked-to-performance-scores/ https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/02/01/tn-teachers-job-satis... In other words, much like regular companies, governments with happier employees tend to have better outcomes. This should be hardly surprising to most HN readers.
r3bl 9y ago
It must be just me from the other side of the world where GoFundMe is not popular at all, but I don't recall seeing any GoFundMe campaigns that don't follow the "something really bad happened to me" pattern.
zouhair 9y ago
Living in America? That'll explain it and I am not being facetious, it's a shitty country if you are not making decent money and even then be careful.
- jjeaff 9y ago
  If you think the US is a bad country to be poor in, then you haven't traveled much. The US is one of the best places, you could probably count on one hand countries that would be better to be poor in. If you don't have any money, Medicaid will pay for your insulin. If you do make money but are living above your means so you can't afford health insurance or the medicine itself, then you are doing it wrong.
  - Aeolun 9y ago
    I can't count on two hands and feet the countries that it's better to be poor in than the US.
  - philliphaydon 9y ago
    I donno, some 'third world' countries seem to have better healthcare than America.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    What if you live in one of the many states which refused to expand Medicaid under the ACA, and make enough money to be ineligible for Medicaid but not enough to afford health insurance or directly pay for medicine?
  - zghst 9y ago
    We’ll never get anywhere with this attitude, just because it’s worse in other places doesn’t mean we should let our bottom earners live in this shameful system. People of privilege truly believe that it’s simple but it isn’t.
    - DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
      Perhaps it would set a good example for you to donate all of your discretionary wealth to a health-services charity? If you're talking about making it taxpayer funded instead, you should remember that all taxes are collected under threat of violence and imprisonment.
danso 9y ago
I think the case in question made some national headlines (because of the ongoing ACA debate) earlier this year after Mr. Boyle had died: https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/ezwwze/the-high-price-of-insulin-is-literally-killing-people https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/ezwwze/the-high-price-o... https://www.snopes.com/shane-patrick-boyle-died-after-starting-a-gofundme-campaign-for-insulin/ https://www.snopes.com/shane-patrick-boyle-died-after-starti... What algorithm is being blamed? Twitter's or Facebook's? If the former, @shanecomix had 232 total tweets since 2012. The GoFundMe tweet could have been easily missed in a chronological newsfeed.
pessimizer 9y ago
41% of GoFundMe campaigns are for medical expenses.
973015077 9y ago
Wapo
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
beedogs 9y ago
> Why exactly does somebody need to start a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for life-critical medicine? Because healthcare in the United States is a sad, cruel joke.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Twisell 9y ago
Beg your pardon but this suspiciously look like a way to (unwillingly) hijack the thread away from the Facebook algorithm by introducing a vaguely related subject many people care about too.

firstplacelast 9y ago

In America, we hate poor people. I mean, none of us say it. In fact, most of us state the opposite. However, a good chunk of us vote for politicians and work for companies that exacerbate the problems of the poor.

lwansbrough 9y ago
There’s a difference between hating them hen poor, and being self-interested. That being said, the effects are often the same. And self-interest is an acceptable excuse for people that want to ignore their impact on those around them.
- disordinary 9y ago
  There does seem to be a culture where poor people are dismissed as being lazy when often that's the opposite of true.
- rndgermandude 9y ago
  I rarely (actually never I think) heard anybody complain that "I have to pay for somebody else's healthcare?! Socialism sucks" where I live. In the US however that seems to be a different matter for a lot of people. This - to me - goes beyond mere self-interest... It's essentially stating that one is fine with other people suffering and dying just because they are too poor to pay the ridiculous health care premiums in the US or find an employer who does that for them.
  - jjeaff 9y ago
    That's because if you live in the US, you know better. The only people that are going without proper healthcare are those that make too much money to qualify for Medicaid. But that live beyond their means and can't afford other insurance. The very poor have it just fine when it comes to healthcare in the us. It's those that make too much for Medicaid but not enough for private insurance that have a problem.
    - btown 9y ago
      Wow. To say that those who can't afford insurance but are above the Medicaid eligibility requirements (which are only 33% above the federal poverty level) are voluntarily "living beyond their means" is an incredible oversimplification. Unexpected financial hardships, from motor vehicle breakdowns to insufficiently covered health events, can easily cause a family to fall behind on commitments, and any lapse in premium payments can destroy healthcare coverage for the remainder of a calendar year (or more) with little warning. But somehow I don't think anything I can write would convince you to change your beliefs.
      - jjeaff 9y ago
        You are providing a legitimate case where people get behind on payments. The thread I responded too was making a case that everyone that isn't rich in the US is completely screwed. Sure, there are some cases where you can't make your commitments, but that isn't everyone. As for little warning, there have been laws requiring ample notice and grace period for a long time now in the US.
  - btown 9y ago
    > find an employer who does that for them Most [0] employers who "offer health care" don't actually pay the premiums for you; they'll usually negotiate a group rate that's better than individual (ACA/ObamaCare) insurance, and perhaps chip in some, but you're still paying the premium yourself. Half of ridiculous still rounds up to ridiculous... [0] http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/employer-paid-health-insurance-is-dying-off/ http://fortune.com/2016/03/30/employer-paid-health-insurance...

maskedSlacker 9y ago

'Murica.

dang 9y ago
Please post civil, substantive comments, or no comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hoppa_liza 9y ago

This was discussed here on HN recently. It was deemed a result of the failing health care in the USA. (I do not live there so I do not know the exact details of how particular cases like this happen).

colechristensen 9y ago

Probably because navigating the beurocratic landscape of any government assistance program requires levels of patience, assertiveness, and guile that anyone fully capable of utilizing the services will already have a job that will net enough that they don't need to use the program. Having experienced such programs through others' experiences, I can say that they are very often staffed by underpaid, incompetent employees whom are trying to execute complex programs with perverse incentives designed by compromising committees. The people that need these programs the most are the least capable of dealing with these problems, but almost nobody knows or cares what their troubles are.

sn9 9y ago
This may be true of US gov't bureaucracies, but isn't necessarily true of governments in general.
- bcherny 9y ago
  How do you structure + incentivize government orgs to prevent these sorts of issues?
  - GuiA 9y ago
    It's a hard problem, but I think it lies in great part with the "underpaid, incompetent [government] employees". If you make sure that your government employees are educated, provided with good benefits, feel like they have an impact, etc., the outcomes will invariably be for the better. A very good example of this is teachers. The OECD tells us: "[...]in nearly all countries, when teachers perceive that appraisal and feedback lead to changes in their teaching practice, they also report greater job satisfaction. When teachers believe that appraisal and feedback is performed only for administrative purposes they report less job satisfaction. In addition, teachers who report that they participate in decision making at school also report greater job satisfaction. Indeed, although fewer than a third of teachers believe that teaching is a valued profession in their country, those teachers who report that they can contribute to school decisions are more likely to report that teaching is valued in their society." http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/TALIS-2013-Executive-Summary.pdf http://www.oecd.org/edu/school/TALIS-2013-Executive-Summary.... And other sources tell us that satisfied teachers tend to lead to better outcomes. "TN teachers’ job satisfaction linked to performance scores" https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/02/01/tn-teachers-job-satisfaction-linked-to-performance-scores/ https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2017/02/01/tn-teachers-job-satis... In other words, much like regular companies, governments with happier employees tend to have better outcomes. This should be hardly surprising to most HN readers.

r3bl 9y ago

It must be just me from the other side of the world where GoFundMe is not popular at all, but I don't recall seeing any GoFundMe campaigns that don't follow the "something really bad happened to me" pattern.

zouhair 9y ago

Living in America? That'll explain it and I am not being facetious, it's a shitty country if you are not making decent money and even then be careful.

jjeaff 9y ago
If you think the US is a bad country to be poor in, then you haven't traveled much. The US is one of the best places, you could probably count on one hand countries that would be better to be poor in. If you don't have any money, Medicaid will pay for your insulin. If you do make money but are living above your means so you can't afford health insurance or the medicine itself, then you are doing it wrong.
- Aeolun 9y ago
  I can't count on two hands and feet the countries that it's better to be poor in than the US.
- philliphaydon 9y ago
  I donno, some 'third world' countries seem to have better healthcare than America.
- mikeash 9y ago
  What if you live in one of the many states which refused to expand Medicaid under the ACA, and make enough money to be ineligible for Medicaid but not enough to afford health insurance or directly pay for medicine?
- zghst 9y ago
  We’ll never get anywhere with this attitude, just because it’s worse in other places doesn’t mean we should let our bottom earners live in this shameful system. People of privilege truly believe that it’s simple but it isn’t.
  - DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
    Perhaps it would set a good example for you to donate all of your discretionary wealth to a health-services charity? If you're talking about making it taxpayer funded instead, you should remember that all taxes are collected under threat of violence and imprisonment.

danso 9y ago

I think the case in question made some national headlines (because of the ongoing ACA debate) earlier this year after Mr. Boyle had died: https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/ezwwze/the-high-price-of-insulin-is-literally-killing-people https://tonic.vice.com/en_us/article/ezwwze/the-high-price-o... https://www.snopes.com/shane-patrick-boyle-died-after-starting-a-gofundme-campaign-for-insulin/ https://www.snopes.com/shane-patrick-boyle-died-after-starti... What algorithm is being blamed? Twitter's or Facebook's? If the former, @shanecomix had 232 total tweets since 2012. The GoFundMe tweet could have been easily missed in a chronological newsfeed.

pessimizer 9y ago

41% of GoFundMe campaigns are for medical expenses.

973015077 9y ago

Wapo

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

beedogs 9y ago

> Why exactly does somebody need to start a GoFundMe campaign to raise money for life-critical medicine? Because healthcare in the United States is a sad, cruel joke.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Twisell 9y ago

Beg your pardon but this suspiciously look like a way to (unwillingly) hijack the thread away from the Facebook algorithm by introducing a vaguely related subject many people care about too.