7 ms·

I had a somewhat unique childhood, in that I spent my early years (before the age of about 10) living in many different places around the world. My parents alwa

I had a somewhat unique childhood, in that I spent my early years (before the age of about 10) living in many different places around the world. My parents always made me walk or ride a bike to school, although sometimes I would go together with my 2 older sisters (who were only a few years older than me). Specifically, we lived in places like Caracas (Venezuela), Kuala Lumpur (Malaysia), and Africa (Nigeria, Ghana). Eventually my family settled in Canada where I mostly grew up, and I continued to transport myself to/from school every day without an escort. Not only was I never harmed whilst traveling to/from school (except for one time when I fell off my bike while riding to school when I was 6 or 7 years old in Venezuela and I had to get stitches on my knee—I've still got the scar to prove it), but today I live mostly without fear and don't subscribe to most of the BS that fear-driven people do. Depending on how you look at it, I seem to have turned out fine. I also spent most of my childhood playing outside eating dirt, and go figure, I have no allergies or immune problems. American parents today who coddle their children are robbing them of learning and growth experiences they deserve. Experiences which, in my opinion, would help make them better people. More tolerant, more empathetic, more intelligent, and healthier.

Waterluvian 9y ago
I only grew up in Canada but had a similar experience: my parents would tell me to stay in the neighbourhood (about 20 streets winding around hills and parks) and and be home by dark. That was it. I spent entire childhood summers wandering forests with my friends, making forts, going on adventures. That being said, it probably helps when you live somewhere with no significant crime. I dunno if my parents would have allowed that if we didn't move away from Scarborough (Toronto suburb with some crime issues at the time)
- Zak 9y ago
  > it probably helps when you live somewhere with no significant crime I'm sure that helps put parents at ease, but I think even hardened criminals are very unlikely to randomly attack children. Aside from the fact that most criminals still have some level of humanity, there's not much to gain from it. Other kids are much more likely to mistreat kids than adult criminals, but kids find ways to do that even in relatively supervised situations.
  - brndnmtthws 9y ago
    Also I bet a lot of hardened criminals have seen Home Alone and have great fear of children.
  - Waterluvian 9y ago
    I would guess that criminals have kids and kids of criminals are more likely to become the bullies and thugs that follow you into the forest to beat you up and take your bike.
    - goliatone 9y ago
      My anecdotal experience has made me think that bullying traits in kids have little correlation with their parents being “criminals”... met plenty of bullies whose parents were “productive citizens”
    - fjsolwmv 9y ago
      Thank you for sharing your ignorant prejudice?
      - dang 9y ago
        If you continue to break the HN guidelines we will ban you. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html
hashkb 9y ago
I still think this misses the point that the Japanese have a shared respect and responsibility to each other and to their space that we don't instill in American culture at all. In fact, we mock their customs more often than adopt them.
- barking 9y ago
  What do we mock about Japanese culture? It's pretty widely admired as far as I can see.
  - hashkb 9y ago
    The bowing, for one glaring example.
- Feniks 9y ago
  I'm not a people person and keep to myself in public but I will act if I see someone kidnap or harass a minor. Its common decency and I'm sure Americans still have that?
  - s0rce 9y ago
    The bystander effect is pretty strong.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    How do you know it's a kidnapping and not just a parent?
- pwaai 9y ago
  In my opinion, Confucius roots are present in both Korean and Japanese societies but more in Korea since it was popular there and naturally spread out to Japan in the very early days...ironically not as popular in China where it originated from but their decendants are royalty throughout East-Asia. Shared respect and responsibility comes naturally to minimize shame, a negative social credit. Self-shaming rises out of being mindful of one's actions and words. Also helps if you are a Buddhist country. The results are remarkable. For instance you can leave keys in your car, pass out from drinking on the streets with wallet bulging with cash and almost no Korean or Japanese person would think of even touching it. Note that this does not mean theft is absent in these countries but I do note that even criminals seem to be regular citizens, blending in as much as possible unlike street gangs you see in North America that advertises it openly. Confucianism was designed from ground up to bring peace and stability in societies during time of extreme political and military upheaval and Chosun dynasty (Korea's longest ruling political power) embraced it and promoted heavily. It's not without problems tho. Speaking as Korean.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
America used to be like this also. I remember playing with fire ants and rattle snakes when I was 5-6 years old (had to go to the hospital for the former, hyperbole on the latter), I climbed the mountain in front of our house (Red Mountain before it became vineyards). Later we moved to Toledo, not known for being the safest city, and we still roamed the neighborhood at will. As the newish father of a baby, I really worry that my son won’t be able to experience that unless we move to China or some other country. Heck, it’s even better today since you can send them out with a cellphone.
- fsloth 9y ago
  No need to go to china. We let our kids roam pretty free in Finland :)
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    Ya, it’s just where we were before and where grandma is.
- pwaai 9y ago
  Fascinating. I mean just the general American nuclear family values from 1950s, 60s are still being actively replicated in other predominantly homogeneous countries with strong patriarchy: ex. South Korea where men are the breadwinner, soldiers on command, women are expected to follow and take care of children. Japan and Korea have highly homogeneous on the confucius spectrum....I believe this uniting values is what allowed people to stay in lanes so to speak..... Honestly, I think it will be a long time before these countries open up their doors to "outsiders". Italian Koreans or French Japanese? I'm disgressing but I'd argue in those European countries you probably won't see kids walking to school alone and for strong safety reasons. Still, even in conservative places like Korea, liberal changes like those seen in American societies of the 70s mixed with credit fueled bubble frenzy of the late 1980s have begun to appear. Anyways these are just my crazy theories, like seeing the parallel rise of GDP & scantily clad women in mainstream TV in 1980s (focus on legs) Japan, similar to S. Korea's hyper-sexual K-pop movement (once again legs are in) similar to America's craze for legs during the 80s, 90s. Now it's all about big butts, an economic indicator a new bull run? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemline_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemline_index Anyways, I don't know how I arrived at this subject but I'm always fascinated by America 70 years ago especially when described from older HN users vs today, and it's echoing impact on the world.
flatline 9y ago
I had to get myself to school from the fourth grade on and still walked or biked myself sometimes to second and third grade. My daughter is six right now and wants to walk to her friend’s house down the street but which I’d be fine with if she didn’t get lost walking out the front door. Maybe in another year...
barking 9y ago
How do your kids go to school?
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  Nobody wants to breed with computer weirdos like me.
  - seeekr 9y ago
    To every weirdo there's a counterpart <3 (And to non-weirdos as well.)
watt 9y ago
What matters is what YOU do, and what your children are allowed to do. What matters, is that if you let your children play outside alone and unsupervised, tomorrow they will be taken away by CPS or equivalent protective services organization of your country[1]. ([1] In Germany - Jugendamt, though I find Germans are surprisingly good with allowing the children autonomy they need. Getting a call from Jugendamt however is really really scary. It's quite awful how these agencies are used as a blunt baton against the very families they are supposed(?) to protect and help.)
- pwaai 9y ago
  I saw a tv show comparing UK and German family, life from BBC. I don't know how accurate or biased that production was but from an outsider, I marveled at the amount of infrastructure built around supporting traditional Germany families. For instance, women who marry are incentivized to stay at home and take care of the children and home. Similarly, kindergartens spend time outside away from books and a long career of state sponsored rote memorizers. Even more fascinating is they don't seem to force school on people who aren't interested in it, instead providing stable and secure trade jobs which you will master in some apprenticeship...backed by monopolies built from the ashes of WW2, dominating global markets....trickledown effect that actually works. of course....my view will never fully reflect the realities of an average German living in Germany....I'm basing it off on that BBC show anyhow so I expect to be wrong in many areas.... but I still admire the German system as described, not sure how well it's implemented....
  - itsthejb 9y ago
    They also have one of the lowest birth rates in Europe. Although apparently it increased a little recently...
lighttower 9y ago
This. How can I teach my two kids this sort of independent without getting a citation by children's services? Serious question.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  Check out this case from my former neck of the woods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents They just did it, were investigated, came out in the clear, and then set precedent that allowed others to do it as well.
  - lighttower 9y ago
    So the only way is to get reported to the cops, get my children held against their will, mount a legal challenge and win to set a legal precedent in my state/county. Ouch.
    - coding123 9y ago
      The US is not the same US it was 10 years ago, and wasn't the same ten years before that... Kind of an interesting hypothesis to why we shouldn't call this the land of the free anymore. Parents are now being called legal gaurdians in some circles as a way to show how that state now owns children.
      - sdenton4 9y ago
        Qua?! Legal guardians is just a more general term than parents, which can encompass situations like orphans cared for by grandparents. Had nothing to do with saying that the state 'owns children.'
        behringer 9y ago
        Legal guardians has always meant something different than biological parents.
      - 9y ago
freyir 9y ago
As a counterexample, my parents traveled alone as children in the U.S. in the 40s and 50s; it was more common then. But they both grew up to be risk-averse adults anyway. And maybe you would have been a brave adult regardless? As a parent, you're often forced to weigh a high probability of nothing bad happening vs. a very small probability of something terrible happening. But putting your kids on a bus or dropping them off at school isn't likely to scar them for life.
- Justsignedup 9y ago
  And then in New York we get stories of a kid being abducted on a 2-block walk from school. I guess in my family the thought is: Listen, 99% of the time everything will be mostly okay, but that 1 time when your kid gets abducted or ran over is that 1 time when it doesn't matter how safe the other 99 times were. Also in New York I can't count the number of times drivers almost hit me, or hit my friends while 100% in the wrong. The drivers here are insane.
  - jmharvey 9y ago
    Yes, we do get stories about a NYC kid being abducted on a 2-block walk from school. Specifically, one kid being abducted, in 1979. Getting hit by a car is a real risk worth accounting for. Getting abducted on the way to school isn't.
    - Feniks 9y ago
      There are also stories about adults getting kidnapped 2 blocks from home. People still leave the house.
    - somethingsimple 9y ago
      > Getting abducted on the way to school isn't. I’m not so sure about that. I live in an affluent part of WA where there’s close to zero crime. A couple times a year we get emails from the school district with descriptions of cars and people that approached kids on their way to or the school, trying to get the kids into their cars. An actual abduction has never occurred in the 5 years that I’ve lived here, but clearly there are attempts.
sneak 9y ago
> I also spent most of my childhood playing outside eating dirt, and go figure, I have no allergies or immune problems. Me too, except that I have severe asthma and am allergic to all sorts of organic things. Your anecdote is not data.
JamesBarney 9y ago
Might also be worth considering that your parents had little fear of strangers and you inherited that lack of fear.

Waterluvian 9y ago

I only grew up in Canada but had a similar experience: my parents would tell me to stay in the neighbourhood (about 20 streets winding around hills and parks) and and be home by dark. That was it. I spent entire childhood summers wandering forests with my friends, making forts, going on adventures. That being said, it probably helps when you live somewhere with no significant crime. I dunno if my parents would have allowed that if we didn't move away from Scarborough (Toronto suburb with some crime issues at the time)

Zak 9y ago
> it probably helps when you live somewhere with no significant crime I'm sure that helps put parents at ease, but I think even hardened criminals are very unlikely to randomly attack children. Aside from the fact that most criminals still have some level of humanity, there's not much to gain from it. Other kids are much more likely to mistreat kids than adult criminals, but kids find ways to do that even in relatively supervised situations.
- brndnmtthws 9y ago
  Also I bet a lot of hardened criminals have seen Home Alone and have great fear of children.
- Waterluvian 9y ago
  I would guess that criminals have kids and kids of criminals are more likely to become the bullies and thugs that follow you into the forest to beat you up and take your bike.
  - goliatone 9y ago
    My anecdotal experience has made me think that bullying traits in kids have little correlation with their parents being “criminals”... met plenty of bullies whose parents were “productive citizens”
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Thank you for sharing your ignorant prejudice?
    - dang 9y ago
      If you continue to break the HN guidelines we will ban you. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

hashkb 9y ago

I still think this misses the point that the Japanese have a shared respect and responsibility to each other and to their space that we don't instill in American culture at all. In fact, we mock their customs more often than adopt them.

barking 9y ago
What do we mock about Japanese culture? It's pretty widely admired as far as I can see.
- hashkb 9y ago
  The bowing, for one glaring example.
Feniks 9y ago
I'm not a people person and keep to myself in public but I will act if I see someone kidnap or harass a minor. Its common decency and I'm sure Americans still have that?
- s0rce 9y ago
  The bystander effect is pretty strong.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  How do you know it's a kidnapping and not just a parent?
pwaai 9y ago
In my opinion, Confucius roots are present in both Korean and Japanese societies but more in Korea since it was popular there and naturally spread out to Japan in the very early days...ironically not as popular in China where it originated from but their decendants are royalty throughout East-Asia. Shared respect and responsibility comes naturally to minimize shame, a negative social credit. Self-shaming rises out of being mindful of one's actions and words. Also helps if you are a Buddhist country. The results are remarkable. For instance you can leave keys in your car, pass out from drinking on the streets with wallet bulging with cash and almost no Korean or Japanese person would think of even touching it. Note that this does not mean theft is absent in these countries but I do note that even criminals seem to be regular citizens, blending in as much as possible unlike street gangs you see in North America that advertises it openly. Confucianism was designed from ground up to bring peace and stability in societies during time of extreme political and military upheaval and Chosun dynasty (Korea's longest ruling political power) embraced it and promoted heavily. It's not without problems tho. Speaking as Korean.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

America used to be like this also. I remember playing with fire ants and rattle snakes when I was 5-6 years old (had to go to the hospital for the former, hyperbole on the latter), I climbed the mountain in front of our house (Red Mountain before it became vineyards). Later we moved to Toledo, not known for being the safest city, and we still roamed the neighborhood at will. As the newish father of a baby, I really worry that my son won’t be able to experience that unless we move to China or some other country. Heck, it’s even better today since you can send them out with a cellphone.

fsloth 9y ago
No need to go to china. We let our kids roam pretty free in Finland :)
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  Ya, it’s just where we were before and where grandma is.
pwaai 9y ago
Fascinating. I mean just the general American nuclear family values from 1950s, 60s are still being actively replicated in other predominantly homogeneous countries with strong patriarchy: ex. South Korea where men are the breadwinner, soldiers on command, women are expected to follow and take care of children. Japan and Korea have highly homogeneous on the confucius spectrum....I believe this uniting values is what allowed people to stay in lanes so to speak..... Honestly, I think it will be a long time before these countries open up their doors to "outsiders". Italian Koreans or French Japanese? I'm disgressing but I'd argue in those European countries you probably won't see kids walking to school alone and for strong safety reasons. Still, even in conservative places like Korea, liberal changes like those seen in American societies of the 70s mixed with credit fueled bubble frenzy of the late 1980s have begun to appear. Anyways these are just my crazy theories, like seeing the parallel rise of GDP & scantily clad women in mainstream TV in 1980s (focus on legs) Japan, similar to S. Korea's hyper-sexual K-pop movement (once again legs are in) similar to America's craze for legs during the 80s, 90s. Now it's all about big butts, an economic indicator a new bull run? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemline_index https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemline_index Anyways, I don't know how I arrived at this subject but I'm always fascinated by America 70 years ago especially when described from older HN users vs today, and it's echoing impact on the world.

flatline 9y ago

I had to get myself to school from the fourth grade on and still walked or biked myself sometimes to second and third grade. My daughter is six right now and wants to walk to her friend’s house down the street but which I’d be fine with if she didn’t get lost walking out the front door. Maybe in another year...

barking 9y ago

How do your kids go to school?

brndnmtthws 9y ago
Nobody wants to breed with computer weirdos like me.
- seeekr 9y ago
  To every weirdo there's a counterpart <3 (And to non-weirdos as well.)

watt 9y ago

What matters is what YOU do, and what your children are allowed to do. What matters, is that if you let your children play outside alone and unsupervised, tomorrow they will be taken away by CPS or equivalent protective services organization of your country[1]. ([1] In Germany - Jugendamt, though I find Germans are surprisingly good with allowing the children autonomy they need. Getting a call from Jugendamt however is really really scary. It's quite awful how these agencies are used as a blunt baton against the very families they are supposed(?) to protect and help.)

pwaai 9y ago
I saw a tv show comparing UK and German family, life from BBC. I don't know how accurate or biased that production was but from an outsider, I marveled at the amount of infrastructure built around supporting traditional Germany families. For instance, women who marry are incentivized to stay at home and take care of the children and home. Similarly, kindergartens spend time outside away from books and a long career of state sponsored rote memorizers. Even more fascinating is they don't seem to force school on people who aren't interested in it, instead providing stable and secure trade jobs which you will master in some apprenticeship...backed by monopolies built from the ashes of WW2, dominating global markets....trickledown effect that actually works. of course....my view will never fully reflect the realities of an average German living in Germany....I'm basing it off on that BBC show anyhow so I expect to be wrong in many areas.... but I still admire the German system as described, not sure how well it's implemented....
- itsthejb 9y ago
  They also have one of the lowest birth rates in Europe. Although apparently it increased a little recently...

lighttower 9y ago

This. How can I teach my two kids this sort of independent without getting a citation by children's services? Serious question.

CydeWeys 9y ago
Check out this case from my former neck of the woods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meitiv_incidents They just did it, were investigated, came out in the clear, and then set precedent that allowed others to do it as well.
- lighttower 9y ago
  So the only way is to get reported to the cops, get my children held against their will, mount a legal challenge and win to set a legal precedent in my state/county. Ouch.
  - coding123 9y ago
    The US is not the same US it was 10 years ago, and wasn't the same ten years before that... Kind of an interesting hypothesis to why we shouldn't call this the land of the free anymore. Parents are now being called legal gaurdians in some circles as a way to show how that state now owns children.
    - sdenton4 9y ago
      Qua?! Legal guardians is just a more general term than parents, which can encompass situations like orphans cared for by grandparents. Had nothing to do with saying that the state 'owns children.'
      - behringer 9y ago
        Legal guardians has always meant something different than biological parents.
    - 9y ago

freyir 9y ago

As a counterexample, my parents traveled alone as children in the U.S. in the 40s and 50s; it was more common then. But they both grew up to be risk-averse adults anyway. And maybe you would have been a brave adult regardless? As a parent, you're often forced to weigh a high probability of nothing bad happening vs. a very small probability of something terrible happening. But putting your kids on a bus or dropping them off at school isn't likely to scar them for life.

Justsignedup 9y ago
And then in New York we get stories of a kid being abducted on a 2-block walk from school. I guess in my family the thought is: Listen, 99% of the time everything will be mostly okay, but that 1 time when your kid gets abducted or ran over is that 1 time when it doesn't matter how safe the other 99 times were. Also in New York I can't count the number of times drivers almost hit me, or hit my friends while 100% in the wrong. The drivers here are insane.
- jmharvey 9y ago
  Yes, we do get stories about a NYC kid being abducted on a 2-block walk from school. Specifically, one kid being abducted, in 1979. Getting hit by a car is a real risk worth accounting for. Getting abducted on the way to school isn't.
  - Feniks 9y ago
    There are also stories about adults getting kidnapped 2 blocks from home. People still leave the house.
  - somethingsimple 9y ago
    > Getting abducted on the way to school isn't. I’m not so sure about that. I live in an affluent part of WA where there’s close to zero crime. A couple times a year we get emails from the school district with descriptions of cars and people that approached kids on their way to or the school, trying to get the kids into their cars. An actual abduction has never occurred in the 5 years that I’ve lived here, but clearly there are attempts.

sneak 9y ago

> I also spent most of my childhood playing outside eating dirt, and go figure, I have no allergies or immune problems. Me too, except that I have severe asthma and am allergic to all sorts of organic things. Your anecdote is not data.

JamesBarney 9y ago

Might also be worth considering that your parents had little fear of strangers and you inherited that lack of fear.