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The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants, correct? So it would have wider adoption than Visa, at the very least. I do agree that

The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants, correct? So it would have wider adoption than Visa, at the very least. I do agree that crypto keeps drifting away from p2p cash ... that's a good observation. But I hope people keep shooting at that target.

kang 9y ago
> The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants Incorrect. Decentralization is always more expensive and slower than centralized system(both hypothetically optimal) due to extra sync cost.
- wmf 9y ago
  You're mixing cost and price. Let's say the cost of a Visa transaction is 0.1% and the price is 2.5% while the cost and price of a MobileCoin transaction are 0.2%. It costs more but it's still cheaper for merchants.
  - highd 9y ago
    Cash is cheaper for merchants, but people have only continued to use credit cards more. Further, if crypto becomes attractive from a cost perspective Visa will just be forced to bring down fees and stay competitive. It's pretty near impossible to imagine crypto with costs less than Visa's database.
    - knicholes 9y ago
      A wire transfer fee to China would cost me ~$45. Sending it in bitcoin would cost ~$17.
      - pishpash 9y ago
        While you take on a huge amount of risk. Congratulations on "saving" that $28. Not to mention since you can't really spend bitcoins you'll have to pay more for conversions to national currencies on both ends.
      - highd 9y ago
        This is a great example of where crypto would be useful. But it's not the same as paying for pizza.
      - topmonk 9y ago
        Actually, even less than that. To get an avg sized txn sent within the next 14 hours it would cost: 226 * 100 * 0.0000001 * $17761 = $4.01 https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/
      - tehlike 9y ago
        How much was the exchange difference?
        knicholes 9y ago
        No idea. I just went into the bank and said I needed to send money to China.
    - nradov 9y ago
      Cash isn't necessarily cheaper for merchants once you account for handling, security, and theft.
      - stordoff 9y ago
        There's a shop near me that has had its card payments out of commission for about a week. They are having to bring in staff for additional hours due to the fact that the transactions typically take longer and you have the cash to handle at end of day. I doubt it's a negligible additional cost.
    - smichel17 9y ago
      Credit cards are more convenient than cash. If crypto can be equally convenient (which I think it can -- see venmo), I imagine people will use it. Are the savings of centralization really enough that Visa will be able to stay competitive and profitable? I don't doubt Visa will continue to be used, but I imagine it will be for fraud protection rather than cost.

kang 9y ago

> The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants Incorrect. Decentralization is always more expensive and slower than centralized system(both hypothetically optimal) due to extra sync cost.

wmf 9y ago
You're mixing cost and price. Let's say the cost of a Visa transaction is 0.1% and the price is 2.5% while the cost and price of a MobileCoin transaction are 0.2%. It costs more but it's still cheaper for merchants.
- highd 9y ago
  Cash is cheaper for merchants, but people have only continued to use credit cards more. Further, if crypto becomes attractive from a cost perspective Visa will just be forced to bring down fees and stay competitive. It's pretty near impossible to imagine crypto with costs less than Visa's database.
  - knicholes 9y ago
    A wire transfer fee to China would cost me ~$45. Sending it in bitcoin would cost ~$17.
    - pishpash 9y ago
      While you take on a huge amount of risk. Congratulations on "saving" that $28. Not to mention since you can't really spend bitcoins you'll have to pay more for conversions to national currencies on both ends.
    - highd 9y ago
      This is a great example of where crypto would be useful. But it's not the same as paying for pizza.
    - topmonk 9y ago
      Actually, even less than that. To get an avg sized txn sent within the next 14 hours it would cost: 226 * 100 * 0.0000001 * $17761 = $4.01 https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/ https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/
    - tehlike 9y ago
      How much was the exchange difference?
      - knicholes 9y ago
        No idea. I just went into the bank and said I needed to send money to China.
  - nradov 9y ago
    Cash isn't necessarily cheaper for merchants once you account for handling, security, and theft.
    - stordoff 9y ago
      There's a shop near me that has had its card payments out of commission for about a week. They are having to bring in staff for additional hours due to the fact that the transactions typically take longer and you have the cash to handle at end of day. I doubt it's a negligible additional cost.
  - smichel17 9y ago
    Credit cards are more convenient than cash. If crypto can be equally convenient (which I think it can -- see venmo), I imagine people will use it. Are the savings of centralization really enough that Visa will be able to stay competitive and profitable? I don't doubt Visa will continue to be used, but I imagine it will be for fraud protection rather than cost.