5 ms·

MoviePass is changing the value of the movie theater experience

52 points by rising-sky 9y ago

saas_co_de 9y ago
Sounds like a great service. If I lived in the US I would probably sign up and go to a lot more movies. I am down to going to the theater once or twice a year now, and I really like movies, but the prices are dumb.
- jdswain 9y ago
  Where I live it would cost us $45 for tickets alone, probably $65 including food and drinks for a family of 3. I can buy a movie on iTunes for less than half that and watch it as many times as I want whenever I want.
  - fjsolwmv 9y ago
    Do you have a 20-ft screen at home?
DKnoll 9y ago
Most theatres are not at all scared of MoviePass, they're getting paid the full admission price. In fact many chains and independent operators love it, and are looking at implementing their own version. > because theaters have all decided on a ticket price customers must pay for the premium of that big screen and sound system. Not really, no. Studios are the ones driving up movie prices since they keep demanding a bigger and bigger cut. The new Star Wars film for example has the highest royalty of any movie ever released.
- dawnerd 9y ago
  Cinemark announced theirs the other day. 10 bucks a month but you only get one movie and some discounts. Not a great deal but that’s the only way I can see it being sustainable long term.
- anilshanbhag 9y ago
  That is not true. Star wars is an exception and the cut percentage increased by 1%. The real reason is the dropping viewership. Number of tickets sold peaked in 2012. Beyond that the number of movie tickets sold dropped, however number of locations is up and salaries have gone up. To compensate for it, movie ticket prices need to go up.
  - mulmen 9y ago
    When did prices increase? Did ticket prices go up in 2013?
  - DKnoll 9y ago
    Yes, it increased by 1% from 'The Force Awakens', which was last year (edit: 2 years ago, time flies) and also obscenely high. Don't say my statement is 'not true' then confirm it in the next sentence.
- vonseel 9y ago
  I imagine theaters see more bodies == more filled seats == more revenue $. That seems to hold true especially given that Moviepass pays regular-price for tickets. Moviepass’ success is dependent on the same thing as any subscription model like this. Article author seems unable to recognize that he is a top 1% (maybe even rarer) user of Moviepass and the majority of subscribers will see 1 or sometimes fewer movies per month.
blowski 9y ago
This reads like an advert to me. “Cinemas are terrified of this!” is a good sales pitch.
learc83 9y ago
How many people have successfully used MoviePass? I signed up the day the dropped the price and received no confirmation at all. I tried again a few weeks later--no confirmation once again. I still haven't gotten a card from them, and I can't login to the system.
- Itaxpica 9y ago
  I know several people who successfully signed up, got their card, and have used it to see plenty of movies. (This is in NYC, it may be different by region)
- cowabungamann 9y ago
  I use it all the time - it's great!
- miiiiiike 9y ago
  My girlfriend and I both have MoviePass, I don’t have my phone on me but we’ve seen 8-10 movies already. It’s fun, we just run to the movies now. No more buying tickets a day in advance and then making sure we get there early enough. We used to see movies exclusively on Saturdays or Wednesdays, when it’s cheaper, and only went to certain theaters. Now when we decide to see a movie we go whenever we feel like it, wherever we feel like it. We usually bring our own snacks/water too.. We decided to see The Last Jedi at 1:05 AM without any forethought and saw it on a massive screen with Dolby sound. I can’t get a VC to return my cold calls/emails, but hey, at least a VC is paying for our movies.
  - arkades 9y ago
    I thought moviepass was just a free ticket. You make it sound as though they guarantee seating or something, too?
    - miiiiiike 9y ago
      It is a free ticket, but it’s a free ticket without any kind of commitment. The showing you want to see is full? You’re really late? Skip it, go to the next one. Even if it’s not at the same theater. The movie you want to see is $19 at the theater down the street vs $9 on the other side of town. Go to the theater down the street with the reclining seats. We see 3-4 movies a month, MoviePass completely changed the way we think about and scheduled going to the movies. No stress.
tytytytytytytyt 9y ago
Their website looked pretty poor. There were no clear terms or explanation of the deal. Are movies free or what price are they? Maybe they don't need to care because they already get so many signups?
- donarb 9y ago
  They have an app you use to checkin at a theater, you need to be near the theater when you checkin. The amount of the movie is added to your MoviePass MasterCard, you then pay for the movie using the MasterCard. Expensive movies like IMAX 3D or special showings are not covered.
dahdum 9y ago
Studios take the bulk of the ticket price, and MoviePass is paying the full price of the ticket. Theater chains make the bulk of their profit on refreshments, so I don't think they're all that terrified. MoviePass has to grow large enough to be able to negotiate deals with studios, like Disney, or raise rates significantly to cover the true cost of the service. If they raise rates too much, they could start hemorrhaging to the individual theater chain programs. It's a cool service, but it can't last like it is.
- nether 9y ago
  The average American only spends $45 per year on movie tickets (5 movies, $9 per ticket). MoviePass costs $120 per year. On the internet, we disproportionately hear from those in big cities, where tickets cost much higher than average, but that is not what most of country experiences. The viability of MoviePass depends on whether they capture enough people outside of major cities, and that they do not increase their movie viewing significantly.
- djsumdog 9y ago
  I'm glad you mentioned theater revenue. When I worked in a theater, my manager would tell me they saw less than 5 cents per ticket on most movies, maybe a little more for independent films. The $2.85 small bag of popcorn cost less than a penny in raw material to make. We made minimum wage with no overtime (theaters got a tax loophole back then; not sure if they still do) so even factoring in labor and electricity, it's still a huge profit margin. Theaters chain execs love it I'm sure. Still even if/when MoviePass goes under, the studios will probably take a small hit for a while, but I'm sure they'll recover.
gooseus 9y ago
I don't understand why theaters would have a problem with this... I was under the impression that theaters made most of their money from concessions since they get almost no margin on the box office. So a service that gave people a reason to go the theater more often while encouraging them to spend more on on high-margin concessions (which the author admits is what he does) seems like a win for theaters. Perhaps I'm missing something, one thing that drives me crazy nowadays is the sentence that hints at something buried in some link: > And theater chains, particularly AMC, are [absolutely not on board](link to different article on same site that supports this claim, I assume). Definitely couldn't have simply mentioned an AMC lawsuit against MoviePass, but why add more supporting facts when that might mean cutting anecdotes about what movies the author is now willing to sit through? I agree with another commenter, this reads more like an ad, sounds more like MoviePass trying to get people to relate to this guy and become "terrifying" subscribers, just like him!
- throwaway0255 9y ago
  Theaters don't have a problem with it. This is an advertisement for MoviePass disguised as an article. http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
  - chrishacken 9y ago
    I thought you need to legally disclose it in the article if you're paying for the exposure.
    - rhaps0dy 9y ago
      Possibly, but PG's submarines do not directly pay the outlet. Instead, a contact at the hired PR agency contacts some newspapers reporter and gives them something that could be news. Of course, the reporter wants to publish interesting articles, and they trust the PR agency contact, so very likely they will publish some article about that.
    - tedivm 9y ago
      You don't always pay for these articles. Lots of the time press outlets are looking for stories, and PR firms know this. They send a few emails, maybe even give "press releases" that are super close to being an already finished article. The press outlets are cool with this because it helps them get more stories and thus more advertising dollars.
Apocryphon 9y ago
How do startups built upon subsidizing customers pull an Uber- get to a state where their unsustainable pricing practices are offset by wealth foreign investors with virtually unlimited money to burn?
njarboe 9y ago
It would be interesting to know what fraction of seating is going empty in movie theaters these days. I would guess it is around 70%, maybe higher. Only opening weekend for some blockbusters fill them up. I would guess if they survive they will have two tiers, with a much more expensive one for opening weekend tickets. If they get people to go on off times, the theaters will be loving it.
- lucaspiller 9y ago
  A few years ago I had a subscription card for a cinema chain in the UK, it worked out to be the cost of around 1.5 tickets a month, but I ended up going around once a week. Anyway, at the time there was no way to book tickets online, you just had to show up and if there was space you’d get a ticket. As such I’d usually go on Saturday early afternoon when it was usually pretty quiet.
donarb 9y ago
Mitch Lowe, CEO, was interviewed a few months ago about the price drop and how MoviePass plans to make money. https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/17/ceo-mitch-lowe-explains-how-the-moviepass-rollout-fell-short-and-what-hes-doing-to-fix-it/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/17/ceo-mitch-lo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/18/ceo-mitch-lowe-pulls-back-the-curtain-on-moviepass-and-explains-its-economics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/18/ceo-mitch-lo...
zeep 9y ago
> The average movie in San Francisco costs about $12, nearly 50 percent higher than the national average. the average is $8? seems hard to believe...
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  Half of America lives in places like Monroe, Iowa.
  - zeep 9y ago
    I just checked for a general admission ticket in Monroe, Iowa and it was $10.60 ... I guess if you include morning, kid and senior prices, the average is probably pretty low.
    - mechhrt 9y ago
      I am willing to bet that theater has a monopoly with no substitute goods. Rural != Cheap The lowest prices are probably in suburban areas where there are many competing theaters in a populated area with easy access.
      - sallyfour 9y ago
        My suburban hometown still has $4-5 tickets everyday. ~200k population with quite a few theaters around.
RyanShook 9y ago
I don’t see how the MoviePass model could be sustainable today. The name of the game appears to be “lose money on every ticket today to control the market tomorrow.” But if they’re successful at controlling ticket sales I’m just not sure they have enough leverage to keep theaters and studios on board... idk just left scratching my head.
calvinbhai 9y ago
Movie pass wont work for me. For $10 a month, I can watch 10 99¢ movie rentals on iTunes. For the cost of two people on movie pass, that can be 4 to 20 movies on iTunes/Amazon in a month. I think moviepass is targeted at singles who go to movies less than 12 times a year and it helps bring that demography to the theaters, and probably spend more on concessions. I dont understand why Theater chains are "terrified"
- 1123581321 9y ago
  The big thing you’re missing is that the theater shows new movies. Also, iTunes rentals are usually more than that.
cwyers 9y ago
MoviePass is run by an ex-Netflix executive, and it seems to have the same Lando Calrissian business model: they're going to have to keep altering the deal, and it gets worse every time. Netflix started off offering a library so large (and so filled with recent hits) that it put Blockbuster out of business for a monthly fee. Now it's basically HBO. MoviePass is likely going to end up doing the same thing: offering less and charging more as soon as they have enough people on the hook.

52 points by rising-sky 9y ago

Sounds like a great service. If I lived in the US I would probably sign up and go to a lot more movies. I am down to going to the theater once or twice a year now, and I really like movies, but the prices are dumb.

jdswain 9y ago
Where I live it would cost us $45 for tickets alone, probably $65 including food and drinks for a family of 3. I can buy a movie on iTunes for less than half that and watch it as many times as I want whenever I want.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  Do you have a 20-ft screen at home?

DKnoll 9y ago

Most theatres are not at all scared of MoviePass, they're getting paid the full admission price. In fact many chains and independent operators love it, and are looking at implementing their own version. > because theaters have all decided on a ticket price customers must pay for the premium of that big screen and sound system. Not really, no. Studios are the ones driving up movie prices since they keep demanding a bigger and bigger cut. The new Star Wars film for example has the highest royalty of any movie ever released.

dawnerd 9y ago
Cinemark announced theirs the other day. 10 bucks a month but you only get one movie and some discounts. Not a great deal but that’s the only way I can see it being sustainable long term.
anilshanbhag 9y ago
That is not true. Star wars is an exception and the cut percentage increased by 1%. The real reason is the dropping viewership. Number of tickets sold peaked in 2012. Beyond that the number of movie tickets sold dropped, however number of locations is up and salaries have gone up. To compensate for it, movie ticket prices need to go up.
- mulmen 9y ago
  When did prices increase? Did ticket prices go up in 2013?
- DKnoll 9y ago
  Yes, it increased by 1% from 'The Force Awakens', which was last year (edit: 2 years ago, time flies) and also obscenely high. Don't say my statement is 'not true' then confirm it in the next sentence.
vonseel 9y ago
I imagine theaters see more bodies == more filled seats == more revenue $. That seems to hold true especially given that Moviepass pays regular-price for tickets. Moviepass’ success is dependent on the same thing as any subscription model like this. Article author seems unable to recognize that he is a top 1% (maybe even rarer) user of Moviepass and the majority of subscribers will see 1 or sometimes fewer movies per month.

blowski 9y ago

This reads like an advert to me. “Cinemas are terrified of this!” is a good sales pitch.

learc83 9y ago

How many people have successfully used MoviePass? I signed up the day the dropped the price and received no confirmation at all. I tried again a few weeks later--no confirmation once again. I still haven't gotten a card from them, and I can't login to the system.

Itaxpica 9y ago
I know several people who successfully signed up, got their card, and have used it to see plenty of movies. (This is in NYC, it may be different by region)
cowabungamann 9y ago
I use it all the time - it's great!
miiiiiike 9y ago
My girlfriend and I both have MoviePass, I don’t have my phone on me but we’ve seen 8-10 movies already. It’s fun, we just run to the movies now. No more buying tickets a day in advance and then making sure we get there early enough. We used to see movies exclusively on Saturdays or Wednesdays, when it’s cheaper, and only went to certain theaters. Now when we decide to see a movie we go whenever we feel like it, wherever we feel like it. We usually bring our own snacks/water too.. We decided to see The Last Jedi at 1:05 AM without any forethought and saw it on a massive screen with Dolby sound. I can’t get a VC to return my cold calls/emails, but hey, at least a VC is paying for our movies.
- arkades 9y ago
  I thought moviepass was just a free ticket. You make it sound as though they guarantee seating or something, too?
  - miiiiiike 9y ago
    It is a free ticket, but it’s a free ticket without any kind of commitment. The showing you want to see is full? You’re really late? Skip it, go to the next one. Even if it’s not at the same theater. The movie you want to see is $19 at the theater down the street vs $9 on the other side of town. Go to the theater down the street with the reclining seats. We see 3-4 movies a month, MoviePass completely changed the way we think about and scheduled going to the movies. No stress.

tytytytytytytyt 9y ago

Their website looked pretty poor. There were no clear terms or explanation of the deal. Are movies free or what price are they? Maybe they don't need to care because they already get so many signups?

donarb 9y ago
They have an app you use to checkin at a theater, you need to be near the theater when you checkin. The amount of the movie is added to your MoviePass MasterCard, you then pay for the movie using the MasterCard. Expensive movies like IMAX 3D or special showings are not covered.

dahdum 9y ago

Studios take the bulk of the ticket price, and MoviePass is paying the full price of the ticket. Theater chains make the bulk of their profit on refreshments, so I don't think they're all that terrified. MoviePass has to grow large enough to be able to negotiate deals with studios, like Disney, or raise rates significantly to cover the true cost of the service. If they raise rates too much, they could start hemorrhaging to the individual theater chain programs. It's a cool service, but it can't last like it is.

nether 9y ago
The average American only spends $45 per year on movie tickets (5 movies, $9 per ticket). MoviePass costs $120 per year. On the internet, we disproportionately hear from those in big cities, where tickets cost much higher than average, but that is not what most of country experiences. The viability of MoviePass depends on whether they capture enough people outside of major cities, and that they do not increase their movie viewing significantly.
djsumdog 9y ago
I'm glad you mentioned theater revenue. When I worked in a theater, my manager would tell me they saw less than 5 cents per ticket on most movies, maybe a little more for independent films. The $2.85 small bag of popcorn cost less than a penny in raw material to make. We made minimum wage with no overtime (theaters got a tax loophole back then; not sure if they still do) so even factoring in labor and electricity, it's still a huge profit margin. Theaters chain execs love it I'm sure. Still even if/when MoviePass goes under, the studios will probably take a small hit for a while, but I'm sure they'll recover.

gooseus 9y ago

I don't understand why theaters would have a problem with this... I was under the impression that theaters made most of their money from concessions since they get almost no margin on the box office. So a service that gave people a reason to go the theater more often while encouraging them to spend more on on high-margin concessions (which the author admits is what he does) seems like a win for theaters. Perhaps I'm missing something, one thing that drives me crazy nowadays is the sentence that hints at something buried in some link: > And theater chains, particularly AMC, are [absolutely not on board](link to different article on same site that supports this claim, I assume). Definitely couldn't have simply mentioned an AMC lawsuit against MoviePass, but why add more supporting facts when that might mean cutting anecdotes about what movies the author is now willing to sit through? I agree with another commenter, this reads more like an ad, sounds more like MoviePass trying to get people to relate to this guy and become "terrifying" subscribers, just like him!

throwaway0255 9y ago
Theaters don't have a problem with it. This is an advertisement for MoviePass disguised as an article. http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- chrishacken 9y ago
  I thought you need to legally disclose it in the article if you're paying for the exposure.
  - rhaps0dy 9y ago
    Possibly, but PG's submarines do not directly pay the outlet. Instead, a contact at the hired PR agency contacts some newspapers reporter and gives them something that could be news. Of course, the reporter wants to publish interesting articles, and they trust the PR agency contact, so very likely they will publish some article about that.
  - tedivm 9y ago
    You don't always pay for these articles. Lots of the time press outlets are looking for stories, and PR firms know this. They send a few emails, maybe even give "press releases" that are super close to being an already finished article. The press outlets are cool with this because it helps them get more stories and thus more advertising dollars.

Apocryphon 9y ago

How do startups built upon subsidizing customers pull an Uber- get to a state where their unsustainable pricing practices are offset by wealth foreign investors with virtually unlimited money to burn?

njarboe 9y ago

It would be interesting to know what fraction of seating is going empty in movie theaters these days. I would guess it is around 70%, maybe higher. Only opening weekend for some blockbusters fill them up. I would guess if they survive they will have two tiers, with a much more expensive one for opening weekend tickets. If they get people to go on off times, the theaters will be loving it.

lucaspiller 9y ago
A few years ago I had a subscription card for a cinema chain in the UK, it worked out to be the cost of around 1.5 tickets a month, but I ended up going around once a week. Anyway, at the time there was no way to book tickets online, you just had to show up and if there was space you’d get a ticket. As such I’d usually go on Saturday early afternoon when it was usually pretty quiet.

donarb 9y ago

Mitch Lowe, CEO, was interviewed a few months ago about the price drop and how MoviePass plans to make money. https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/17/ceo-mitch-lowe-explains-how-the-moviepass-rollout-fell-short-and-what-hes-doing-to-fix-it/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/17/ceo-mitch-lo... https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/18/ceo-mitch-lowe-pulls-back-the-curtain-on-moviepass-and-explains-its-economics/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/robcain/2017/09/18/ceo-mitch-lo...

zeep 9y ago

> The average movie in San Francisco costs about $12, nearly 50 percent higher than the national average. the average is $8? seems hard to believe...

fjsolwmv 9y ago
Half of America lives in places like Monroe, Iowa.
- zeep 9y ago
  I just checked for a general admission ticket in Monroe, Iowa and it was $10.60 ... I guess if you include morning, kid and senior prices, the average is probably pretty low.
  - mechhrt 9y ago
    I am willing to bet that theater has a monopoly with no substitute goods. Rural != Cheap The lowest prices are probably in suburban areas where there are many competing theaters in a populated area with easy access.
    - sallyfour 9y ago
      My suburban hometown still has $4-5 tickets everyday. ~200k population with quite a few theaters around.

RyanShook 9y ago

I don’t see how the MoviePass model could be sustainable today. The name of the game appears to be “lose money on every ticket today to control the market tomorrow.” But if they’re successful at controlling ticket sales I’m just not sure they have enough leverage to keep theaters and studios on board... idk just left scratching my head.

calvinbhai 9y ago

Movie pass wont work for me. For $10 a month, I can watch 10 99¢ movie rentals on iTunes. For the cost of two people on movie pass, that can be 4 to 20 movies on iTunes/Amazon in a month. I think moviepass is targeted at singles who go to movies less than 12 times a year and it helps bring that demography to the theaters, and probably spend more on concessions. I dont understand why Theater chains are "terrified"

1123581321 9y ago
The big thing you’re missing is that the theater shows new movies. Also, iTunes rentals are usually more than that.

cwyers 9y ago

MoviePass is run by an ex-Netflix executive, and it seems to have the same Lando Calrissian business model: they're going to have to keep altering the deal, and it gets worse every time. Netflix started off offering a library so large (and so filled with recent hits) that it put Blockbuster out of business for a monthly fee. Now it's basically HBO. MoviePass is likely going to end up doing the same thing: offering less and charging more as soon as they have enough people on the hook.