8 ms·

Facebook offers some good functionality for keeping in touch etc, but it's littered with too much noise and too much influencing (to the point that it's unpleas

by osrec 9y ago

Facebook offers some good functionality for keeping in touch etc, but it's littered with too much noise and too much influencing (to the point that it's unpleasant to use). If they fix that, they'll be okay. If not, there may be a mass exodus to something else once enough people get sick of it.

baby 9y ago
I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less, and is why we're getting so much ads mixed with our friends' posts. They're milking the cow before it dies. I feel bad writing that because I like facebook. But I use it less and less in favor of messenger, just because I see less and less about my friends in my news feed. Now their other acquisitions instagram and whatsapp seem pretty healthy, and VR is the future, so I wouldn't worry about the company as a whole.
- monfrere 9y ago
  > I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less, and is why we're getting so much ads mixed with our friends' posts. They're milking the cow before it dies. Um, no. Facebook remains the most popular app in the United States with a comfortable lead. It's surpassed only by its own Whatsapp and Messenger globally. I think I read that in terms of time spent in an app, Facebook still beats Whatsapp, but I can't find the stat right now. Facebook just crossed 2 billion MAUs this year. Its advertising revenue grows at close to 50% a year. Obviously part of that is showing more ads per user, but it's also growth in app usage. I'd say the cow keeps sprouting new udders and they are feverishly trying to keep up with attaching the pumps.
  - macawfish 9y ago
    It's only a matter of time. When was the last time you thought about logging onto MySpace?
  - wils124 9y ago
    That doesn’t necessarily prove your point. It’s possible that advertising and install counts are lagging indicators, and that there are leading indicators like engagement showing trouble down the road. Anecdotally I’ve heard that this is the case.
  - Manglano 9y ago
    when you think about it, it's a bad simulacrum of the social encounter and experience. i use mine as a blog for issues and feelings that have provoked a big response in me but it's far from ideal
- thinkMOAR 9y ago
  That always makes me giggle, when i hear people say, "FB sucks, i don't use FB anymore, i'm only on Instagram...."
  - bamboozled 9y ago
    Instagram is also becoming a monotonous and boring platform to use. The more ads and other junk features they cram into it, the less people will want to use it.
    - abakker 9y ago
      Pinterest for the long game! I've never understood the pseudo-ephemerality of instagram. Even if you save stuff, or like it, the interface makes it very difficult to recall stuff from more than a few days ago.
      - lambdas 9y ago
        Oh god no. I hide their results from google searches, that horrible wall they put up to make you sign up to read something or look at an image.
        ahartmetz 9y ago
        How do you do that? I couldn't find a good way when I looked. It is incomprehensible to me why Google supports the incredibly annoying bait (high res image for Googlebot) and switch (sign up to see high res in browsers) tactic of Pinterest. That shit certainly doesn't make me sign up, it makes me hate Pinterest.
        Xunxi 9y ago
        Chrome extension called Personal Blocklist (by Google) There's a Firefox port, I'm not sure where the data goes.
      - aschampion 9y ago
- zionic 9y ago
  > I feel bad writing that because I like facebook. Why? It's a terrible company and Zuckerburg is kind of a jerk.
  - jhowell 9y ago
    Any personal anecdotes in support of your attack?
    - smcl 9y ago
      https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/857771879368499200?lang=en https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/857771879368499200?...
  - Kiro 9y ago
    I love Facebook. Do you have a problem with that?
    - babygoat 9y ago
      Why would they have a problem with that? Your Facebook love doesn’t contradict the statement.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- sanmon3186 9y ago
  > I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less I have no data to substantiate but I doubt if it is true. May be in first world but coming from India, I believe there is still a huge market for Facebook. Internet literally means WhatsApp and Facebook to masses who are now getting affordable mobile phone and data connectivity.
- osrec 9y ago
  But WhatsApp and Instagram are not that big a percentage of overall revenues. And if they do monetise them further, they risk becoming annoying to use like Facebook. Just realised something - as Facebook extracts more money from users it actually delivers LESS value to users. This is somewhat different to normal business where you earn more when you deliver MORE value for your users/customers.
  - Lxr 9y ago
    This is exactly the problem with advertising as a business model. You necessarily have to make your product worse to make more money, and it becomes a balancing act. Subscription SaaS services on the other hand are free to make the product as clean and easy to use as possible.
- nradov 9y ago
  There's really no evidence of VR being the future. It's useful for some games and visualization / design work but I expect that 20 years from now we'll still be using flat 2-D displays most of the time, supplemented by AR for mobile use.
- wils124 9y ago
  Is Instagram healthy? Anecdotally it seems like people have the same problems with it as FB.
imgabe 9y ago
News Feed Eradicator is the only reason I haven't closed my Facebook account. A lot of my friends organize events via Facebook, so it's good to have for that. Status updates are mostly a waste of time.
- jermaustin1 9y ago
  I use it pretty much to keep up with family and their babies. Also the hidden groups feature is kind of cool for running secret societies.
- DanHulton 9y ago
  Yep. I check every week or so to make sure I haven't missed anything too crucial. But the news feed is gone, baby, gone.
wybiral 9y ago
I enjoy running into people or meeting up with them periodically to keep in touch with anyone who isn't a close friend. That way they can tell me everything they've been going through in person. To me that's more fun than getting a stream of micro updates on everyone. Keeping up-to-date with multiple people using FB is like trying to watch multiple shows in short snippets concurrently mixed together. When you could just wait a bit and then watch it all as a contiguous story or have a real meaningful conversation with a person to catch up over dinner or something.
- wincy 9y ago
  I think you hit the nail on the head. I was anxious quitting Facebook, but now that I have it feels so much more meaningful to meet with someone I haven't seen in months and have a nice lunch or dinner with them and catch up.
  - wybiral 9y ago
    Catching up feels more important and seems to have more substance that way. The little snippets people share on FB probably are also less personal, imo. It's stuff they're announcing to everyone instead of sharing with you or a small group. It just doesn't feel like actually "keeping in touch" to me. Feels more like promoted content (from the people and the actual ads).
- notacoward 9y ago
  And what do you suggest for people who have broader circles of friends all over the world, and/or can't jet-set to visit them all periodically? A platform's utility to you might not equal its utility for others.
  - wybiral 9y ago
    Fair enough. We all have different definitions of the words "friend" and "keep in touch". I have some friends who live too far away to visit that I do set some time aside to have an occasional video chat with.
  - 9y ago
tbrock 9y ago
OG Facebook jumped the shark when the timeline release that made the platform visually stunning (huge photos, etc) was scrapped in favor of a redesign that had more advertising space. Not sure who made that product decision but it was lethal for me.
ctdonath 9y ago
I've watched many major social media sites come & go. Most go because the signal-to-noise ratio drops to unacceptable, overrun with people whom people didn't come to hear from. Increase of "censorship" also drives people away, as ham-fisted or biased means of reducing noise frustrate good users.
- jandrese 9y ago
  In other words: Spam ruins everything. Perhaps more generally: money ruins everything. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/transaction https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/transaction
  - russh 9y ago
    Money does not ruin everything. The pursuit of money above all else ruins everything.
    - cyberpunk0 9y ago
      Take a look at the good money does vs the negatives it brings about the world. Even if it does some good things, the negative consequences are orders of magnitudes larger. you wouldn't keep a poisonous house plant that gives you cancer just because it also provided you with menial amounts of oxygen or a pet that viciously attacks you constantly anytime you come home because sometimes its cute to look at from outside the safety of your window
      - jandrese 9y ago
        That's way overboard. My original post was being somewhat facetious. I am in no way suggesting that a return to a barter based economy will make people happier.
        cyberpunk0 9y ago
        Overboard but true.
yosito 9y ago
That's their entire business model, so I doubt they'll fix it.
btilly 9y ago
The barrier to entry for an upstart is less than you might expect. According to multiple lines of argument, the value of a network for users scales like O(n log(n)) where n is the number of users. The log(n) factor is sufficiently small that a new and better platform can get traction if the user experience on the most popular one degrades enough. Now this has actually been happening, but Facebook has learned from what happened to Friendster and then MySpace and has been buying up potential competitors such as Instagram and Whatsapp. However it is just a question of time until a successful competitor doesn't sell..then manages to take Facebook's crown from it. This probably won't happen within 5 years. I'd give it even odds in 10. But I wouldn't bet on Facebook remaining king for 20. See http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf for some of the lines of evidence leading to that scaling conclusion.

by osrec 9y ago

baby 9y ago

I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less, and is why we're getting so much ads mixed with our friends' posts. They're milking the cow before it dies. I feel bad writing that because I like facebook. But I use it less and less in favor of messenger, just because I see less and less about my friends in my news feed. Now their other acquisitions instagram and whatsapp seem pretty healthy, and VR is the future, so I wouldn't worry about the company as a whole.

monfrere 9y ago
> I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less, and is why we're getting so much ads mixed with our friends' posts. They're milking the cow before it dies. Um, no. Facebook remains the most popular app in the United States with a comfortable lead. It's surpassed only by its own Whatsapp and Messenger globally. I think I read that in terms of time spent in an app, Facebook still beats Whatsapp, but I can't find the stat right now. Facebook just crossed 2 billion MAUs this year. Its advertising revenue grows at close to 50% a year. Obviously part of that is showing more ads per user, but it's also growth in app usage. I'd say the cow keeps sprouting new udders and they are feverishly trying to keep up with attaching the pumps.
- macawfish 9y ago
  It's only a matter of time. When was the last time you thought about logging onto MySpace?
- wils124 9y ago
  That doesn’t necessarily prove your point. It’s possible that advertising and install counts are lagging indicators, and that there are leading indicators like engagement showing trouble down the road. Anecdotally I’ve heard that this is the case.
- Manglano 9y ago
  when you think about it, it's a bad simulacrum of the social encounter and experience. i use mine as a blog for issues and feelings that have provoked a big response in me but it's far from ideal
thinkMOAR 9y ago
That always makes me giggle, when i hear people say, "FB sucks, i don't use FB anymore, i'm only on Instagram...."
- bamboozled 9y ago
  Instagram is also becoming a monotonous and boring platform to use. The more ads and other junk features they cram into it, the less people will want to use it.
  - abakker 9y ago
    Pinterest for the long game! I've never understood the pseudo-ephemerality of instagram. Even if you save stuff, or like it, the interface makes it very difficult to recall stuff from more than a few days ago.
    - lambdas 9y ago
      Oh god no. I hide their results from google searches, that horrible wall they put up to make you sign up to read something or look at an image.
      - ahartmetz 9y ago
        How do you do that? I couldn't find a good way when I looked. It is incomprehensible to me why Google supports the incredibly annoying bait (high res image for Googlebot) and switch (sign up to see high res in browsers) tactic of Pinterest. That shit certainly doesn't make me sign up, it makes me hate Pinterest.
        Xunxi 9y ago
        Chrome extension called Personal Blocklist (by Google) There's a Firefox port, I'm not sure where the data goes.
    - aschampion 9y ago
zionic 9y ago
> I feel bad writing that because I like facebook. Why? It's a terrible company and Zuckerburg is kind of a jerk.
- jhowell 9y ago
  Any personal anecdotes in support of your attack?
  - smcl 9y ago
    https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/857771879368499200?lang=en https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/857771879368499200?...
- Kiro 9y ago
  I love Facebook. Do you have a problem with that?
  - babygoat 9y ago
    Why would they have a problem with that? Your Facebook love doesn’t contradict the statement.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
sanmon3186 9y ago
> I have this theory that they've noticed that the platform is being used less and less I have no data to substantiate but I doubt if it is true. May be in first world but coming from India, I believe there is still a huge market for Facebook. Internet literally means WhatsApp and Facebook to masses who are now getting affordable mobile phone and data connectivity.
osrec 9y ago
But WhatsApp and Instagram are not that big a percentage of overall revenues. And if they do monetise them further, they risk becoming annoying to use like Facebook. Just realised something - as Facebook extracts more money from users it actually delivers LESS value to users. This is somewhat different to normal business where you earn more when you deliver MORE value for your users/customers.
- Lxr 9y ago
  This is exactly the problem with advertising as a business model. You necessarily have to make your product worse to make more money, and it becomes a balancing act. Subscription SaaS services on the other hand are free to make the product as clean and easy to use as possible.
nradov 9y ago
There's really no evidence of VR being the future. It's useful for some games and visualization / design work but I expect that 20 years from now we'll still be using flat 2-D displays most of the time, supplemented by AR for mobile use.
wils124 9y ago
Is Instagram healthy? Anecdotally it seems like people have the same problems with it as FB.

imgabe 9y ago

News Feed Eradicator is the only reason I haven't closed my Facebook account. A lot of my friends organize events via Facebook, so it's good to have for that. Status updates are mostly a waste of time.

jermaustin1 9y ago
I use it pretty much to keep up with family and their babies. Also the hidden groups feature is kind of cool for running secret societies.
DanHulton 9y ago
Yep. I check every week or so to make sure I haven't missed anything too crucial. But the news feed is gone, baby, gone.

wybiral 9y ago

I enjoy running into people or meeting up with them periodically to keep in touch with anyone who isn't a close friend. That way they can tell me everything they've been going through in person. To me that's more fun than getting a stream of micro updates on everyone. Keeping up-to-date with multiple people using FB is like trying to watch multiple shows in short snippets concurrently mixed together. When you could just wait a bit and then watch it all as a contiguous story or have a real meaningful conversation with a person to catch up over dinner or something.

wincy 9y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head. I was anxious quitting Facebook, but now that I have it feels so much more meaningful to meet with someone I haven't seen in months and have a nice lunch or dinner with them and catch up.
- wybiral 9y ago
  Catching up feels more important and seems to have more substance that way. The little snippets people share on FB probably are also less personal, imo. It's stuff they're announcing to everyone instead of sharing with you or a small group. It just doesn't feel like actually "keeping in touch" to me. Feels more like promoted content (from the people and the actual ads).
notacoward 9y ago
And what do you suggest for people who have broader circles of friends all over the world, and/or can't jet-set to visit them all periodically? A platform's utility to you might not equal its utility for others.
- wybiral 9y ago
  Fair enough. We all have different definitions of the words "friend" and "keep in touch". I have some friends who live too far away to visit that I do set some time aside to have an occasional video chat with.
- 9y ago

tbrock 9y ago

OG Facebook jumped the shark when the timeline release that made the platform visually stunning (huge photos, etc) was scrapped in favor of a redesign that had more advertising space. Not sure who made that product decision but it was lethal for me.

ctdonath 9y ago

I've watched many major social media sites come & go. Most go because the signal-to-noise ratio drops to unacceptable, overrun with people whom people didn't come to hear from. Increase of "censorship" also drives people away, as ham-fisted or biased means of reducing noise frustrate good users.

jandrese 9y ago
In other words: Spam ruins everything. Perhaps more generally: money ruins everything. https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/transaction https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/transaction
- russh 9y ago
  Money does not ruin everything. The pursuit of money above all else ruins everything.
  - cyberpunk0 9y ago
    Take a look at the good money does vs the negatives it brings about the world. Even if it does some good things, the negative consequences are orders of magnitudes larger. you wouldn't keep a poisonous house plant that gives you cancer just because it also provided you with menial amounts of oxygen or a pet that viciously attacks you constantly anytime you come home because sometimes its cute to look at from outside the safety of your window
    - jandrese 9y ago
      That's way overboard. My original post was being somewhat facetious. I am in no way suggesting that a return to a barter based economy will make people happier.
      - cyberpunk0 9y ago
        Overboard but true.

yosito 9y ago

That's their entire business model, so I doubt they'll fix it.

btilly 9y ago

The barrier to entry for an upstart is less than you might expect. According to multiple lines of argument, the value of a network for users scales like O(n log(n)) where n is the number of users. The log(n) factor is sufficiently small that a new and better platform can get traction if the user experience on the most popular one degrades enough. Now this has actually been happening, but Facebook has learned from what happened to Friendster and then MySpace and has been buying up potential competitors such as Instagram and Whatsapp. However it is just a question of time until a successful competitor doesn't sell..then manages to take Facebook's crown from it. This probably won't happen within 5 years. I'd give it even odds in 10. But I wouldn't bet on Facebook remaining king for 20. See http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/doc/metcalfe.pdf for some of the lines of evidence leading to that scaling conclusion.