7 ms·

Does China’s J-20 rival other stealth fighters?

61 points by protomyth 9y ago

alexasmyths 9y ago
A) Are we sure it even flies? B) Do they have the very nuanced tech to handle the complexities of stealth? C) Most important: it's a team, not a pilot. What makes US Air Power so effective is the coordination, and multi-role availability etc. AWACS, communications, meshed fighter groups, all sorts of strike packages from cruise missiles to drones etc.. So when you need to go in stealth and do the AA + Comms network, you can do that. When you need low-air with some jamming support etc. you can do that. When you need to hit something way past the horizon you can do that. When you want to linger forever you can re-fuel and do that. Hopefully it will never matter, but the ability to project power makes a difference, even if it's not used. Time to get some good gear into India ...
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  They'll figure it out.
- orb_yt 9y ago
  Of course it flies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCagF0RUQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCagF0RUQQ
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  a) yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CK3N8mOXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CK3N8mOXs b ) you can probably assume, considering the vast tech industry in China, that if they haven't yet they will soon. c) Why would you assume their operational and strategic capabilities are lacking in these areas? The Chinese have a very capable armed forces https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=china https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-de... https://www.lowyinstitute.org/issues/chinese-military https://www.lowyinstitute.org/issues/chinese-military
  - alexasmyths 9y ago
    a) Just because you show a video of an airframe in the air, does not remotely mean that the Jet specified, with all it's gear, is flying and operable. b) No - stealth for jets is a very, very specific thing with lots of nuance that has no civilian counterpart. What 'tech' does China make that surpasses most of the world? Almost none. The article today about their car factories: all Swedish and Swiss robots. So they're not even at that stage. Same thing with Engines - a very key component that most nations do not seem to be able to do on their own. Apparently the new US F series have surfaces tweaked down to the mm, bigger than that, it's not stealthy. And it requires a lot of specialized maintenance. c) The Chinese have no experience whatsoever operating in the kinds of systems that the US has. Those things take experience and time to develop. Can the Chinese AF effectively deploy drones 1/2 way around the world now? That's not 'one tech' - that's a whole pile of tech and operational abilities rolled into one. And that's just drones. How many re-fuellers do they have ready? How many Aircraft carriers (really, 0). How many forward stations can they deploy to in an instant? No, as far as they have come along the last 20 years, this is one area they are going to be quite far behind in, for still some time yet. I roughly say they are about where they are with their aircraft carrier.
    - justicezyx 9y ago
      > a) Just because you show a video of an airframe in the air, does not remotely mean that the Jet specified, with all it's gear, is flying and operable. So it acutally cannot fly, that's what you are saying. > What 'tech' does China make that surpasses most of the world? Almost none. China tech is among the world's most advanced. Let's not confuse being the absolute #1 with just being advanced. > c) The Chinese have no experience whatsoever operating in the kinds of systems that the US has. "had" They used to have a despicable internet economy, look at what they are doing now.
      - alexasmyths 9y ago
        a) I'm not saying one way or the other, I'm saying we don't really have lot of info on what it actually is and does. b) China is not among the world's most advanced in the series of technical bits necessary for this: stealth, jet aircraft engine, weapons systems, underlying operational capabilities. c) China hasn't dropped live munitions on an actual target in what, decades? Do they have a single AFB out of their borders? Do they have an operable aircraft carrier? Do they interoperate with dozens of other nations? Have they flown actual stealth missions? You have to do all of that to get good at it. I will be a long while.
- junkscience2017 9y ago
  and NATO, in particular the USAF, can deploy in volume. The Russians field some interesting planes but then you find out they have six of them, only three flyable.
  - stevenwoo 9y ago
    The usual joke/factoid is the US Navy is the #1 air force in the entire world, with the US Army and the US Air Force running a close second and third with orders changing depending upon how one counts.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      The USAF (air force) is the biggest air force in the world, the USN (navy) is second, the Army is in the top ten but number three is Russia.
      - dingaling 9y ago
        It's more of an assessment of capability rather than raw size. For example the air component of the USMC is larger than the UK RAF but the latter is more experienced and capable in long-range power projection. The IDF/AF is smaller than the Russian air forces but many times more capable.
- justicezyx 9y ago
  > A) Are we sure it even flies? Yes, you can just google it, and found video of public flight in air show. > B) Do they have the very nuanced tech to handle the complexities of stealth? According to many sources, China stolen the F117 debris, and apparently that's why US bombed Chinese embassy because of a "outdated map". C) Most important: it's a team, not a pilot. Y-20 the heavy weight transport aircraft. J-16 the F-15E equivalent J-10 the F-16 equivalent Kj-2000 Kj-200 Kj-500 AWSACS air craft Aircraft carriers J-15 carrier jet > What makes US Air Power so effective is the coordination Beidou: equivalent to GPS > meshed fighter groups China is one of the leaders in swarm drones
  - jkaptur 9y ago
    > According to many sources, China stolen the F117 debris, and apparently that's why US bombed Chinese embassy because of a "outdated map". Would you mind linking to a few of the many sources?
    - justicezyx 9y ago
      It's a rumor, circulating on Chinese and English forums, and I have not kept reference.
pravda 9y ago
I look forward to the day when China will supply the USA with jet fighters. We will save so much money!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- greydius 9y ago
  That is not likely to ever happen. Defense spending in the US is mainly welfare for US defense contractors.
  - Gravityloss 9y ago
    But you can pay them to slap a sticker on it.
orb_yt 9y ago
Fun little note: The afterburning turbofan engines used in this aircraft are supposedly similar in performance to the P&W F119 engines used in the Raptor. The company behind the engine is/was working on a high bypass version which aims to power the Y-20 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Y-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Y-20
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  There is speculation that those are still in the prototype stage and the current ones are running on Russian Saturns. China is still catching up in turbofans that have sufficient power and reliability (they can get one or the other, but not both ATM).
  - jacquesm 9y ago
    They should team up with Renault.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      High performance turbofans and modern semiconductors are the most closely kept technologies in the west and Russia. You can’t easily reverse engineer them from end products, they are all about process. It’s reasonable that these are the last technologies left for China to master. Partnerships are out of the question.
olympus 9y ago
Some comments about the article and Chinese fighter development- some of these points mentioned in the article but glossed over, some are implied but not mentioned, and some completely absent: 1. Stealth for fighters isn't about keeping the enemy from seeing you entirely. That went away a long time ago. Stealth helps your survivability by making it take a little longer for you to be seen. If you can see the enemy from 50 miles away, but they can't see you until 20 miles away then you have a huge advantage in being able to launch a missile first. 2. Stealth is not just about RF, it's about visual and thermal cues too. The latest generation of missiles are going to multi-mode seekers (RF + IR is one possibility) so you need stealth in multiple domains to be effective. 3. RF stealth can only be optimized for one band. So you might design your coatings and structures to work against X-band (10GHz-ish) but be effectively 4th-gen non-stealth against early warning recievers that operate in the MHz range and against short range radar in the Ka-band (40 GHz-ish). This is why point 1 has become the way it is. The enemy will know you're there. 4. China is great at some areas, and laughably bad at others. They haven't put the WS-15 engine on the J-20 yet because they don't know how to make it right. They are currently spending tons of money on researching metallurgy so they can catch up with the rest of the developed world. It's funny that they can develop their own advanced radar and jammers but they still have to buy all their engines from Russia. 5. Good missiles are a huge component in survivability- a long range missile with lock on after launch capability can be fired in "the general direction" of a target without you having to have your own lock on them. This is good if you have an X-band radar on your jet but can get cues from a surveillance radar in another band, and your missile seeker is also in another band. This means your weak point that the enemy stealth was optimized for is covered by the strengths of your other air power. China makes great missiles. 6. Command, Control, and Communication (and Cyber, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance) play a huge part in a major air battle. It's not just a bunch of individuals trying to get their guy, but a coordinated strategy. China is especially dependent on control and communication, since their pilots are trained to follow orders from the ground. You need jam-resistant communications for this. China is great with RF stuff. 7. The article claims jets like the J-11 are 3rd gen equivalent and J-20 are 4th gen equivalent. This is almost surely an intentional downgrade because if this D.C. based think tank revealed what they actually thought it might hint that they know more about these jets than they want to. Calling a J-11 a 3rd gen is laughable. The latest J-11B is basically 4.5 gen. It can match or even outperform a fully upgraded F-15C in many areas. While it may not be better overall than a F-15C, it is at least 4th gen, call it 4.25 gen to a new F-15C's 4.5 gen. The same goes for the J-20, it is clearly better than 4th gen, call it 4.9 gen to the F-22's 5th gen. 8. While a J-20 might not match a F-22 one-on-one, if they can make the J-20 en masse, they will present a serious threat to the F-22. We only built 187 F-22s, haven't fully upgraded all of them (some don't need upgrading since they are only used for training), have crashed a few, and cannabalized others for parts. We'd be lucky to get 100 fully upgraded F-22s to a fight. We're hoping that we can make enough F-35s to cover that small number, but China is making the J-31 to counter. In conclusion- Does China's J-20 rival other stealth fighters? Yes. Maybe they aren't fully competing in the stealth category, but you should be afraid of it because it has other strengths. Edit: Danm, I almost forgot about electronic warfare (EW). Another alternative to stealth is jamming the other guy's ears off. It makes you vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles, but missile launch detection and a good on/off switch makes jamming a great self-protection scheme. Coherent distributed jamming is on the horizon, possibly to the point of fooling anti radiation missiles. China's pretty good at EW, just like they are at radar and communication stuff. The next all out war where developed countries throw all of their technology at each other is going to suck.
smallstepforman 9y ago
Speaking of modern jet fighters, here us a scary Fly-by of Su35 beside Su30 in Syria (couple of days ago), at full speed meters apart: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNyL9jxRP0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNyL9jxRP0
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  Is the POV from the pilot of the 30 or the 35?
Top19 9y ago
I appreciate your post. For those wondering, China is the place where companies across the world are going to hide slave labor and incredible environmental devastation. That is why their prices are so cheap and 6 million manufacturing jobs have been lost. Slave labor and the greatest destruction of environment the world has ever seen.
- fabrice_d 9y ago
  Sure, but I'm not convinced that the crazy price of programs like the F-35 is due to being environmentally responsible and respectful of labor rights. If the US want to compete they also need to improve.
  - xcirrian9005 9y ago
    And right now F35 does not even fly
    - Hextinium 9y ago
      The F35s have been flying for 3 years now. Just not many of them, for very long, or very cheap.
  - uncoder0 9y ago
    How many carrier strike groups can china deploy? How much power can they project 3,000 miles from home? Is the answer none? why yes it most likely is...
    - b0rsuk 9y ago
      China doesn't need to. It only needs to threaten Taiwan, Korea, Japan and other US allies in the region. Then they will switch alliances.
      - hyperdunc 9y ago
        It's more likely they'll further militarize.
sanjeetsuhag 9y ago
For anyone interested in the rise of the Chinese military, I'd recommend you read the Department of Defense report to Congress on 'Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2017': https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_...
waiseristy 9y ago
The real gold is the article linked halfway through http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html
- mr_spothawk 9y ago
  > This study has therefore established through Physical Optics simulation across nine radio-frequency bands, that no fundamental obstacles exist in the shaping design of the J-20 prototype precluding its development into a genuine Very Low Observable design.
  - waiseristy 9y ago
    Well I read that 3 or 4 times and still don't understand it, but the pictures sure are pretty!
    - olympus 9y ago
      They turned all the pictures we have of the prototypes into a 3D model and ran radar simulations on it. They concluded that China has developed an actual stealth plane and not just one that looks pretty. As opposed to the "stealth" plane that Iran unveiled a few years back that doesn't fly and isn't shaped right. They were just imitating shapes they had seen before and didn't put it together right.
- gnode 9y ago
  This mirrors the impression I got when I first saw the pictures of it. The round nozzles can't be good for its radar profile (as from a wide range of angles, there's a significant surface area facing the observer). I expect any radar engineer is aware of this, so I wonder why such a trade-off was made.
Gravityloss 9y ago
There are a lot of words but not much hard content. Less stealthy (especially from the rear), more internal volume compared to the F-22. Only about 11 produced so far.

61 points by protomyth 9y ago

A) Are we sure it even flies? B) Do they have the very nuanced tech to handle the complexities of stealth? C) Most important: it's a team, not a pilot. What makes US Air Power so effective is the coordination, and multi-role availability etc. AWACS, communications, meshed fighter groups, all sorts of strike packages from cruise missiles to drones etc.. So when you need to go in stealth and do the AA + Comms network, you can do that. When you need low-air with some jamming support etc. you can do that. When you need to hit something way past the horizon you can do that. When you want to linger forever you can re-fuel and do that. Hopefully it will never matter, but the ability to project power makes a difference, even if it's not used. Time to get some good gear into India ...

jjoonathan 9y ago
They'll figure it out.
orb_yt 9y ago
Of course it flies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCagF0RUQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyCagF0RUQQ
King-Aaron 9y ago
a) yes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CK3N8mOXs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_CK3N8mOXs b ) you can probably assume, considering the vast tech industry in China, that if they haven't yet they will soon. c) Why would you assume their operational and strategic capabilities are lacking in these areas? The Chinese have a very capable armed forces https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-detail.asp?country_id=china https://www.globalfirepower.com/country-military-strength-de... https://www.lowyinstitute.org/issues/chinese-military https://www.lowyinstitute.org/issues/chinese-military
- alexasmyths 9y ago
  a) Just because you show a video of an airframe in the air, does not remotely mean that the Jet specified, with all it's gear, is flying and operable. b) No - stealth for jets is a very, very specific thing with lots of nuance that has no civilian counterpart. What 'tech' does China make that surpasses most of the world? Almost none. The article today about their car factories: all Swedish and Swiss robots. So they're not even at that stage. Same thing with Engines - a very key component that most nations do not seem to be able to do on their own. Apparently the new US F series have surfaces tweaked down to the mm, bigger than that, it's not stealthy. And it requires a lot of specialized maintenance. c) The Chinese have no experience whatsoever operating in the kinds of systems that the US has. Those things take experience and time to develop. Can the Chinese AF effectively deploy drones 1/2 way around the world now? That's not 'one tech' - that's a whole pile of tech and operational abilities rolled into one. And that's just drones. How many re-fuellers do they have ready? How many Aircraft carriers (really, 0). How many forward stations can they deploy to in an instant? No, as far as they have come along the last 20 years, this is one area they are going to be quite far behind in, for still some time yet. I roughly say they are about where they are with their aircraft carrier.
  - justicezyx 9y ago
    > a) Just because you show a video of an airframe in the air, does not remotely mean that the Jet specified, with all it's gear, is flying and operable. So it acutally cannot fly, that's what you are saying. > What 'tech' does China make that surpasses most of the world? Almost none. China tech is among the world's most advanced. Let's not confuse being the absolute #1 with just being advanced. > c) The Chinese have no experience whatsoever operating in the kinds of systems that the US has. "had" They used to have a despicable internet economy, look at what they are doing now.
    - alexasmyths 9y ago
      a) I'm not saying one way or the other, I'm saying we don't really have lot of info on what it actually is and does. b) China is not among the world's most advanced in the series of technical bits necessary for this: stealth, jet aircraft engine, weapons systems, underlying operational capabilities. c) China hasn't dropped live munitions on an actual target in what, decades? Do they have a single AFB out of their borders? Do they have an operable aircraft carrier? Do they interoperate with dozens of other nations? Have they flown actual stealth missions? You have to do all of that to get good at it. I will be a long while.
junkscience2017 9y ago
and NATO, in particular the USAF, can deploy in volume. The Russians field some interesting planes but then you find out they have six of them, only three flyable.
- stevenwoo 9y ago
  The usual joke/factoid is the US Navy is the #1 air force in the entire world, with the US Army and the US Air Force running a close second and third with orders changing depending upon how one counts.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    The USAF (air force) is the biggest air force in the world, the USN (navy) is second, the Army is in the top ten but number three is Russia.
    - dingaling 9y ago
      It's more of an assessment of capability rather than raw size. For example the air component of the USMC is larger than the UK RAF but the latter is more experienced and capable in long-range power projection. The IDF/AF is smaller than the Russian air forces but many times more capable.
justicezyx 9y ago
> A) Are we sure it even flies? Yes, you can just google it, and found video of public flight in air show. > B) Do they have the very nuanced tech to handle the complexities of stealth? According to many sources, China stolen the F117 debris, and apparently that's why US bombed Chinese embassy because of a "outdated map". C) Most important: it's a team, not a pilot. Y-20 the heavy weight transport aircraft. J-16 the F-15E equivalent J-10 the F-16 equivalent Kj-2000 Kj-200 Kj-500 AWSACS air craft Aircraft carriers J-15 carrier jet > What makes US Air Power so effective is the coordination Beidou: equivalent to GPS > meshed fighter groups China is one of the leaders in swarm drones
- jkaptur 9y ago
  > According to many sources, China stolen the F117 debris, and apparently that's why US bombed Chinese embassy because of a "outdated map". Would you mind linking to a few of the many sources?
  - justicezyx 9y ago
    It's a rumor, circulating on Chinese and English forums, and I have not kept reference.

pravda 9y ago

I look forward to the day when China will supply the USA with jet fighters. We will save so much money!

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
greydius 9y ago
That is not likely to ever happen. Defense spending in the US is mainly welfare for US defense contractors.
- Gravityloss 9y ago
  But you can pay them to slap a sticker on it.

orb_yt 9y ago

Fun little note: The afterburning turbofan engines used in this aircraft are supposedly similar in performance to the P&W F119 engines used in the Raptor. The company behind the engine is/was working on a high bypass version which aims to power the Y-20 [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Y-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi%27an_Y-20

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
There is speculation that those are still in the prototype stage and the current ones are running on Russian Saturns. China is still catching up in turbofans that have sufficient power and reliability (they can get one or the other, but not both ATM).
- jacquesm 9y ago
  They should team up with Renault.
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    High performance turbofans and modern semiconductors are the most closely kept technologies in the west and Russia. You can’t easily reverse engineer them from end products, they are all about process. It’s reasonable that these are the last technologies left for China to master. Partnerships are out of the question.

olympus 9y ago

Some comments about the article and Chinese fighter development- some of these points mentioned in the article but glossed over, some are implied but not mentioned, and some completely absent: 1. Stealth for fighters isn't about keeping the enemy from seeing you entirely. That went away a long time ago. Stealth helps your survivability by making it take a little longer for you to be seen. If you can see the enemy from 50 miles away, but they can't see you until 20 miles away then you have a huge advantage in being able to launch a missile first. 2. Stealth is not just about RF, it's about visual and thermal cues too. The latest generation of missiles are going to multi-mode seekers (RF + IR is one possibility) so you need stealth in multiple domains to be effective. 3. RF stealth can only be optimized for one band. So you might design your coatings and structures to work against X-band (10GHz-ish) but be effectively 4th-gen non-stealth against early warning recievers that operate in the MHz range and against short range radar in the Ka-band (40 GHz-ish). This is why point 1 has become the way it is. The enemy will know you're there. 4. China is great at some areas, and laughably bad at others. They haven't put the WS-15 engine on the J-20 yet because they don't know how to make it right. They are currently spending tons of money on researching metallurgy so they can catch up with the rest of the developed world. It's funny that they can develop their own advanced radar and jammers but they still have to buy all their engines from Russia. 5. Good missiles are a huge component in survivability- a long range missile with lock on after launch capability can be fired in "the general direction" of a target without you having to have your own lock on them. This is good if you have an X-band radar on your jet but can get cues from a surveillance radar in another band, and your missile seeker is also in another band. This means your weak point that the enemy stealth was optimized for is covered by the strengths of your other air power. China makes great missiles. 6. Command, Control, and Communication (and Cyber, Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance) play a huge part in a major air battle. It's not just a bunch of individuals trying to get their guy, but a coordinated strategy. China is especially dependent on control and communication, since their pilots are trained to follow orders from the ground. You need jam-resistant communications for this. China is great with RF stuff. 7. The article claims jets like the J-11 are 3rd gen equivalent and J-20 are 4th gen equivalent. This is almost surely an intentional downgrade because if this D.C. based think tank revealed what they actually thought it might hint that they know more about these jets than they want to. Calling a J-11 a 3rd gen is laughable. The latest J-11B is basically 4.5 gen. It can match or even outperform a fully upgraded F-15C in many areas. While it may not be better overall than a F-15C, it is at least 4th gen, call it 4.25 gen to a new F-15C's 4.5 gen. The same goes for the J-20, it is clearly better than 4th gen, call it 4.9 gen to the F-22's 5th gen. 8. While a J-20 might not match a F-22 one-on-one, if they can make the J-20 en masse, they will present a serious threat to the F-22. We only built 187 F-22s, haven't fully upgraded all of them (some don't need upgrading since they are only used for training), have crashed a few, and cannabalized others for parts. We'd be lucky to get 100 fully upgraded F-22s to a fight. We're hoping that we can make enough F-35s to cover that small number, but China is making the J-31 to counter. In conclusion- Does China's J-20 rival other stealth fighters? Yes. Maybe they aren't fully competing in the stealth category, but you should be afraid of it because it has other strengths. Edit: Danm, I almost forgot about electronic warfare (EW). Another alternative to stealth is jamming the other guy's ears off. It makes you vulnerable to anti-radiation missiles, but missile launch detection and a good on/off switch makes jamming a great self-protection scheme. Coherent distributed jamming is on the horizon, possibly to the point of fooling anti radiation missiles. China's pretty good at EW, just like they are at radar and communication stuff. The next all out war where developed countries throw all of their technology at each other is going to suck.

smallstepforman 9y ago

Speaking of modern jet fighters, here us a scary Fly-by of Su35 beside Su30 in Syria (couple of days ago), at full speed meters apart: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNyL9jxRP0 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlNyL9jxRP0

King-Aaron 9y ago
Is the POV from the pilot of the 30 or the 35?

Top19 9y ago

I appreciate your post. For those wondering, China is the place where companies across the world are going to hide slave labor and incredible environmental devastation. That is why their prices are so cheap and 6 million manufacturing jobs have been lost. Slave labor and the greatest destruction of environment the world has ever seen.

fabrice_d 9y ago
Sure, but I'm not convinced that the crazy price of programs like the F-35 is due to being environmentally responsible and respectful of labor rights. If the US want to compete they also need to improve.
- xcirrian9005 9y ago
  And right now F35 does not even fly
  - Hextinium 9y ago
    The F35s have been flying for 3 years now. Just not many of them, for very long, or very cheap.
- uncoder0 9y ago
  How many carrier strike groups can china deploy? How much power can they project 3,000 miles from home? Is the answer none? why yes it most likely is...
  - b0rsuk 9y ago
    China doesn't need to. It only needs to threaten Taiwan, Korea, Japan and other US allies in the region. Then they will switch alliances.
    - hyperdunc 9y ago
      It's more likely they'll further militarize.

sanjeetsuhag 9y ago

For anyone interested in the rise of the Chinese military, I'd recommend you read the Department of Defense report to Congress on 'Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2017': https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_Military_Power_Report.PDF https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2017_China_...

waiseristy 9y ago

The real gold is the article linked halfway through http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2011-03.html

mr_spothawk 9y ago
> This study has therefore established through Physical Optics simulation across nine radio-frequency bands, that no fundamental obstacles exist in the shaping design of the J-20 prototype precluding its development into a genuine Very Low Observable design.
- waiseristy 9y ago
  Well I read that 3 or 4 times and still don't understand it, but the pictures sure are pretty!
  - olympus 9y ago
    They turned all the pictures we have of the prototypes into a 3D model and ran radar simulations on it. They concluded that China has developed an actual stealth plane and not just one that looks pretty. As opposed to the "stealth" plane that Iran unveiled a few years back that doesn't fly and isn't shaped right. They were just imitating shapes they had seen before and didn't put it together right.
gnode 9y ago
This mirrors the impression I got when I first saw the pictures of it. The round nozzles can't be good for its radar profile (as from a wide range of angles, there's a significant surface area facing the observer). I expect any radar engineer is aware of this, so I wonder why such a trade-off was made.

Gravityloss 9y ago

There are a lot of words but not much hard content. Less stealthy (especially from the rear), more internal volume compared to the F-22. Only about 11 produced so far.