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You must be joking. Wealth people? Depart with wealth? Willingly? They can pay their taxes now and don't; I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. No, to tax rich

by drb91 9y ago

You must be joking. Wealth people? Depart with wealth? Willingly? They can pay their taxes now and don't; I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. No, to tax rich people you have to seize the damn money.

stcredzero 9y ago
You must be joking. Wealth people? Depart with wealth? Willingly? People who fund raise for non-profits convince the wealthy to part with their wealth all the time. If we changed society to make this the way to have a legacy as a rich person, then it would happen. Cultures around the world have convinced their wealthy and powerful to do far wackier things than endow an intentional community. History shows us that the crazy thing to do is to try and force very smart people with lots of resources and power to do something they find distasteful. The same thing to do is to change how people think, feel, and behave, using historical models as precedents.
- drb91 9y ago
  Well there is some success in getting rich people to divorce with the majority of their money, but as a general rule you don’t make money by giving it away. I don’t see any tax scheme succeeding if it depends on the participation of the taxed—that will be abused by the rich, who have more resources to launder money.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    Getting the wealthy to depart with their money works if it's voluntary, and the impetus comes from the culture they want to be a part of. When it doesn't work, it's when other people try to force them to do it. Also, if you look at cultures where heavy progressive taxation works, you'll find there is already a communal thread of culture on which it's based. Schemes to tax the rich and powerful only succeed with the participation of the rich and powerful. That is what you are also saying, but your view is distorted because you are othering "the rich."
dahdum 9y ago
Vast majority of the wealthy pay every dime of their taxes, because one of the few things that wealth can't buy is protection from the IRS. Now of course they do everything they can to avoid taxes, but very few evade them. I'm not so wealthy, but if I can legally avoid paying a tax, I will. That's more available for my retirement, charitable causes, and my family. I don't expect more from the wealthy than I do of myself.
- Dylan16807 9y ago
  That comment is talking about tax avoidance. They are going out of their way to not pay these taxes, but they'd give away the same money or more if nobody tried to "make them"? I wouldn't hold my breath. > I don't expect more from the wealthy than I do of myself. When you're not wealthy, you have strong needs for that extra money. So I definitely do expect more from the wealthy, in terms of dollar amount. In terms of impact on their life I'm asking for very little.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    They are going out of their way to not pay these taxes, but they'd give away the same money or more if nobody tried to "make them"? To force them, out of resentment, as if they are immoral villains or monsters. Do you take well to being treated as an immoral villain? I wouldn't hold my breath. This is exactly how successful museums operate. What would be so outlandish about changing the culture, such that intentional community trusts become the prominent way of showing a legacy? Hell, we already are basically doing this for wildlife. Why not do this for human beings?
    - dahdum 9y ago
      If you're that wealthy I don't think it's really going out of your way to avoid taxes. More like your CPA / tax lawyer says 'Found a way to save you $X in taxes. It'll cost a fraction of that to setup. Shall I go ahead and do that?'. Treating them as immoral villains and trying to take their wealth away will just make them hold onto it that much tighter. I'm just upper middle, but I feel the strain knowing CA is constantly trying to raise my taxes to cover increasing deficits / unfunded pensions.

by drb91 9y ago

You must be joking. Wealth people? Depart with wealth? Willingly? They can pay their taxes now and don't; I wouldn't hold your breath waiting. No, to tax rich people you have to seize the damn money.

stcredzero 9y ago

You must be joking. Wealth people? Depart with wealth? Willingly? People who fund raise for non-profits convince the wealthy to part with their wealth all the time. If we changed society to make this the way to have a legacy as a rich person, then it would happen. Cultures around the world have convinced their wealthy and powerful to do far wackier things than endow an intentional community. History shows us that the crazy thing to do is to try and force very smart people with lots of resources and power to do something they find distasteful. The same thing to do is to change how people think, feel, and behave, using historical models as precedents.

drb91 9y ago
Well there is some success in getting rich people to divorce with the majority of their money, but as a general rule you don’t make money by giving it away. I don’t see any tax scheme succeeding if it depends on the participation of the taxed—that will be abused by the rich, who have more resources to launder money.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  Getting the wealthy to depart with their money works if it's voluntary, and the impetus comes from the culture they want to be a part of. When it doesn't work, it's when other people try to force them to do it. Also, if you look at cultures where heavy progressive taxation works, you'll find there is already a communal thread of culture on which it's based. Schemes to tax the rich and powerful only succeed with the participation of the rich and powerful. That is what you are also saying, but your view is distorted because you are othering "the rich."

dahdum 9y ago

Vast majority of the wealthy pay every dime of their taxes, because one of the few things that wealth can't buy is protection from the IRS. Now of course they do everything they can to avoid taxes, but very few evade them. I'm not so wealthy, but if I can legally avoid paying a tax, I will. That's more available for my retirement, charitable causes, and my family. I don't expect more from the wealthy than I do of myself.

Dylan16807 9y ago
That comment is talking about tax avoidance. They are going out of their way to not pay these taxes, but they'd give away the same money or more if nobody tried to "make them"? I wouldn't hold my breath. > I don't expect more from the wealthy than I do of myself. When you're not wealthy, you have strong needs for that extra money. So I definitely do expect more from the wealthy, in terms of dollar amount. In terms of impact on their life I'm asking for very little.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  They are going out of their way to not pay these taxes, but they'd give away the same money or more if nobody tried to "make them"? To force them, out of resentment, as if they are immoral villains or monsters. Do you take well to being treated as an immoral villain? I wouldn't hold my breath. This is exactly how successful museums operate. What would be so outlandish about changing the culture, such that intentional community trusts become the prominent way of showing a legacy? Hell, we already are basically doing this for wildlife. Why not do this for human beings?
  - dahdum 9y ago
    If you're that wealthy I don't think it's really going out of your way to avoid taxes. More like your CPA / tax lawyer says 'Found a way to save you $X in taxes. It'll cost a fraction of that to setup. Shall I go ahead and do that?'. Treating them as immoral villains and trying to take their wealth away will just make them hold onto it that much tighter. I'm just upper middle, but I feel the strain knowing CA is constantly trying to raise my taxes to cover increasing deficits / unfunded pensions.