9 ms·

In all the cases here, what the customer wanted was available in some other car. Thunderbird owners said they wanted 4 doors. But there were several 4-door fast

by tlb 9y ago

In all the cases here, what the customer wanted was available in some other car. Thunderbird owners said they wanted 4 doors. But there were several 4-door fast cars on the market which they didn't buy, so you shouldn't believe them. A common situation in startups is, there are two current products on the market A and B. A has 99% of the market, B has 1%. The amount of feature X (speed, ease of use, scalability, ...) they provide is limited: ---A----B--------------------------------------> X A startup is proposing to make product C. It will be awesome because it provides way more X: ---A----B---------------------------------C----> X But you need to ask, if people really value X, why aren't they already switching from A to B? It happens all the time that startups ask customers, "Do you want a product with more X?" and they say yes. But if they're not already using the product out there with the most X, you shouldn't believe them.

djrogers 9y ago
While this can be true, it is often the case that the product with more X is not selling because it is poorly executed, or has made too many compromises to deliver more X. In those cases, a product that delivers more X without the drawbacks has a great chance of succeeding.
- RyanZAG 9y ago
  Right! As the article points out very clearly, it's not the "more X" that stops people buying the new product. It's that to get more X, those cars gave up Y and Z which were really the most important parts even if customer's didn't convey that to the product research guys. In this case, if the customers do say that more X is a good thing, then having more X probably would lead to more sales for B -- but B is probably deficient in Y and Z. You have to cover the required essentials for the specific product before you can improve on the nice extras. In the case of a small car, customers would say they'd like it if it was bigger with more headroom and more carry space. If you solve this by increasing the actual physical size of the body, your product will fail. If you solve this by laying out the existing body to give more room, your product will succeed. Although even if you succeed in keeping the same amount of weight and body size and improving headroom, your car will still fail if it now looks ugly because of the changes. The key is to consider the entire product holistically and focus on all of the user's needs at the same time. Don't just focus on 'more or less X'.
  - IgorPartola 9y ago
    You mean selling a chassis with a a single seat, huge motor, stick shift, and the rest of the "car" being made up of a ginormous sound system wouldn't work? o.O
    - brokenmachine 9y ago
      Sounds like a great car! So long as it has a drink holder for my coffee...
andrewstuart2 9y ago
> But if they're not already using the product out there with the most X, you shouldn't believe them. Maybe if they're not using it, it's because they value Y, Z, and etc. more, and the product they're using has Y, Z, and etc. The market opportunity can still exist, but the more features you add, the more niche your product is likely to be. Also, hopefully you have some substantial competitive advantage on X. If you don't, then your competitors might just add X to their product, or a variant thereof, and you're gonna have a bad time.
balabaster 9y ago
Or more X comes at the cost of A and B. Car companies have a terrible habit of making options packs where you have to choose between stupid arbitrary things such as: - Auto-dimming rear view mirror - Compass - Blind Spot Information System OR - Heated seats - Heated Wing Mirrors - Decent sound system There is no reason you shouldn't be able to have all of these things together on your vehicle, but they say "Hey, you can have one option pack or the other, no compromises!" Would I want a vehicle with more X? Absolutely I would. I would have one in a heartbeat if it also came with A and B but it does not. And given the asinine requirement I must choose, I will take A and B over X... even though I really want X. If a vehicle came with A, B and X, I will take it over any vehicle that is missing one of those features.
- rootusrootus 9y ago
  Something like 99% of all the cars purchased new are spec'd by dealers, not by customers. So the problem really wouldn't be solved by allowing you to select some combination of features for a totally unique vehicle. You're just going to walk onto the lot anyway and pick from what's there.
  - balabaster 9y ago
    Or order it from the factory with exactly the spec I want... but 99% of people are too impatient to wait for a vehicle to be delivered from the factory and most dealerships don't give them that option because they want what's on the lot gone. I get it. It's easier to shift vehicles if they all conform to some common spec because then there's nothing that makes worlds different. You pick this spec or that spec, end of story. But I've played this game too many times with dealers and I just can't be bothered any more, which is why I drive an 8 year old Volvo that is good enough. Would I like a new car? Of course, I'd love a spanking new truck, but the glory of driving off the lot with a brand new vehicle that's not quite exactly what I wanted just isn't worth the loss of the 30% of value as I leave the lot and certainly not the tediousness of talking to car sales people for a day while they fuck around upstairs trying to stress me out. I'll bring my laptop and use your WiFi to work. I'm quite comfortable helping myself to your endless tea or water from your service department waiting room while I'm in your showroom. No, I'm not giving you the keys to my vehicle which is parked outside your lot on the street so you can't box me in, and here's a photocopy of my driver's license which is plenty adequate for your needs, the original stays in my wallet. Now fuck off and do your job and if you're not back here with the keys, ownership papers and plates to a new car matching the spec I specified by the time I'm finished this user story, you won't find me still sitting here. You wanna play games, play them with someone else.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago
And that, dear reader, is why software security and information privacy suck.
fragmede 9y ago
Switching from A to B isn't going to be free though. Eg changing cloud providers away from AWS to Google's is likely to be quite involved, so unless is that much better, it's simply not worth it for a little improvement.
IncRnd 9y ago
That exemplifies the article. In your example, optimizing for X in C isn't the answer to A over B. The answer is to add X to C while keeping I, J, and K.
_sh 9y ago
Isn't this well understood as the 'revealed preference'? The best description I've heard of it goes: "Given a choice between X and Y, a person says 'Oh, I love Y!' but then chooses X, X, X, and X". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference

by tlb 9y ago

djrogers 9y ago

While this can be true, it is often the case that the product with more X is not selling because it is poorly executed, or has made too many compromises to deliver more X. In those cases, a product that delivers more X without the drawbacks has a great chance of succeeding.

RyanZAG 9y ago
Right! As the article points out very clearly, it's not the "more X" that stops people buying the new product. It's that to get more X, those cars gave up Y and Z which were really the most important parts even if customer's didn't convey that to the product research guys. In this case, if the customers do say that more X is a good thing, then having more X probably would lead to more sales for B -- but B is probably deficient in Y and Z. You have to cover the required essentials for the specific product before you can improve on the nice extras. In the case of a small car, customers would say they'd like it if it was bigger with more headroom and more carry space. If you solve this by increasing the actual physical size of the body, your product will fail. If you solve this by laying out the existing body to give more room, your product will succeed. Although even if you succeed in keeping the same amount of weight and body size and improving headroom, your car will still fail if it now looks ugly because of the changes. The key is to consider the entire product holistically and focus on all of the user's needs at the same time. Don't just focus on 'more or less X'.
- IgorPartola 9y ago
  You mean selling a chassis with a a single seat, huge motor, stick shift, and the rest of the "car" being made up of a ginormous sound system wouldn't work? o.O
  - brokenmachine 9y ago
    Sounds like a great car! So long as it has a drink holder for my coffee...

andrewstuart2 9y ago

> But if they're not already using the product out there with the most X, you shouldn't believe them. Maybe if they're not using it, it's because they value Y, Z, and etc. more, and the product they're using has Y, Z, and etc. The market opportunity can still exist, but the more features you add, the more niche your product is likely to be. Also, hopefully you have some substantial competitive advantage on X. If you don't, then your competitors might just add X to their product, or a variant thereof, and you're gonna have a bad time.

balabaster 9y ago

Or more X comes at the cost of A and B. Car companies have a terrible habit of making options packs where you have to choose between stupid arbitrary things such as: - Auto-dimming rear view mirror - Compass - Blind Spot Information System OR - Heated seats - Heated Wing Mirrors - Decent sound system There is no reason you shouldn't be able to have all of these things together on your vehicle, but they say "Hey, you can have one option pack or the other, no compromises!" Would I want a vehicle with more X? Absolutely I would. I would have one in a heartbeat if it also came with A and B but it does not. And given the asinine requirement I must choose, I will take A and B over X... even though I really want X. If a vehicle came with A, B and X, I will take it over any vehicle that is missing one of those features.

rootusrootus 9y ago
Something like 99% of all the cars purchased new are spec'd by dealers, not by customers. So the problem really wouldn't be solved by allowing you to select some combination of features for a totally unique vehicle. You're just going to walk onto the lot anyway and pick from what's there.
- balabaster 9y ago
  Or order it from the factory with exactly the spec I want... but 99% of people are too impatient to wait for a vehicle to be delivered from the factory and most dealerships don't give them that option because they want what's on the lot gone. I get it. It's easier to shift vehicles if they all conform to some common spec because then there's nothing that makes worlds different. You pick this spec or that spec, end of story. But I've played this game too many times with dealers and I just can't be bothered any more, which is why I drive an 8 year old Volvo that is good enough. Would I like a new car? Of course, I'd love a spanking new truck, but the glory of driving off the lot with a brand new vehicle that's not quite exactly what I wanted just isn't worth the loss of the 30% of value as I leave the lot and certainly not the tediousness of talking to car sales people for a day while they fuck around upstairs trying to stress me out. I'll bring my laptop and use your WiFi to work. I'm quite comfortable helping myself to your endless tea or water from your service department waiting room while I'm in your showroom. No, I'm not giving you the keys to my vehicle which is parked outside your lot on the street so you can't box me in, and here's a photocopy of my driver's license which is plenty adequate for your needs, the original stays in my wallet. Now fuck off and do your job and if you're not back here with the keys, ownership papers and plates to a new car matching the spec I specified by the time I'm finished this user story, you won't find me still sitting here. You wanna play games, play them with someone else.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 9y ago

And that, dear reader, is why software security and information privacy suck.

fragmede 9y ago

Switching from A to B isn't going to be free though. Eg changing cloud providers away from AWS to Google's is likely to be quite involved, so unless is that much better, it's simply not worth it for a little improvement.

IncRnd 9y ago

That exemplifies the article. In your example, optimizing for X in C isn't the answer to A over B. The answer is to add X to C while keeping I, J, and K.

_sh 9y ago

Isn't this well understood as the 'revealed preference'? The best description I've heard of it goes: "Given a choice between X and Y, a person says 'Oh, I love Y!' but then chooses X, X, X, and X". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference