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I personally use it quite a bit for keeping these relationships alive. I think Facebook is a great tool for that. I have contentious debates over ideas with peo

I personally use it quite a bit for keeping these relationships alive. I think Facebook is a great tool for that. I have contentious debates over ideas with people I know, but more importantly, with people a couple links away from me. It's been an extremely helpful bridge out of the filter bubble I'd probably otherwise inhabit. Of course, I'm not at all sure the benefits I've gotten have any resemblance to most peoples' experience on Facebook, and plenty of reason to believe that this isn't the case. And there's no way in hellllll I'd give my daughter a Messenger for Kids app.

Erik816 9y ago
Contentious public debates with people I barely know is exactly why I use Facebook less than I used to.
- damal 9y ago
  It's far better concentrating that effort on something constructive like reading a book or taking part in a creative hobby. Social media is a time suck... I would go so far as describing it as a scourge on humanity.
  - acjohnson55 9y ago
    Would you consider participating in HN forums to be social media? I think it quite literally is that.
    - damal 9y ago
      Yes, the voting system makes it social media. It's not as manipulative as other websites, but it's for that reason I wouldn't class it as a discussion forum.
- code_duck 9y ago
  Then, after you have a contentious public debate with someone you barely know, your actual friends and acquaintances on FB are repeatedly encouraged to go read the exchange. And since you were talking to that person so much, FB's algorithm reasons it means you must like them a lot, so your news feed starts telling you about everything the person you were arguing with is doing.
  - acjohnson55 9y ago
    To an extent, I think that's a good thing. It keeps challenging points of view in my feed. If I ever found someone truly abusive, I'd block them. But that's never happened to me. As I said elsewhere, my discussions can get pretty heated, but I try always to be respectful. At the end of the day, I'm more concerned with how my point of view appears to lurkers than to someone I'm debating. I'm unlikely to change that person's mind in any given convo.
beeskneecaps 9y ago
Surely there’s a way to keep these relationships alive outside of the system! Even an opportunity to make them more meaningful.
- username223 9y ago
  > Surely there’s a way to keep these relationships alive outside of the system! Yes: RSS and/or email lists. I have a blog and email client, but I also know some people who wouldn't use those things. It sucks, but that's the way things are now.
  - thwarted 9y ago
    Maybe those people should know someone who doesn't use Facebook, instead of you thinking you're forced to use Facebook because they won't use something else.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  We share video with grandparents, for example, you could do it by links sent over email but social-media is easier. I used to use YouTube, but Facebook upload is easier and privacy controls are easier for me. We get to see them about twice a year because of cost and distance of travel.
ACow_Adonis 9y ago
I don't know if it's my age/class/nationality/background or what, but there is no way in hell I would participate in any serious discussion on a platform like facebook, both because they're using that data, and because it's notionally attached to my identity. Indeed, the main reason to have an account there now is to avoid the "you don't have a facebook account" judgement. The thought people would put themselves out there like that strikes me as being incredibly privaledged or incredibly naive...
- opportune 9y ago
  Completely agree. Associating my actual views with my real identity makes me uncomfortable as well - not so much concerned about what Facebook would do with that data, more concerned with the fact that it will cause people I know or have a strong chance of meeting to dislike/hate me for a reason that I'd rather not give them. Also, having a "debate" over FB sounds only moderately more pleasant than having a debate in the comments of a Youtube video.
  - acjohnson55 9y ago
    I don't do it because it's pleasant. In fact, it's often really stressful. I do it because I think it's crucial, in the same sense that I think any sort of political or social engagement is crucial. As far as the risk of people hating me, I try really hard to always be respectful of people I debate with. I think for that reason, I've been able to keep friendships with people I regularly have some pretty intense disagreements with.
    - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
      Same, it's important to have safe contentious discussions and for people to be challenged in their social-media bubble.
- acjohnson55 9y ago
  Yep, I am incredibly privileged to be able to do so. But I also know that some of the people I interact with wouldn't otherwise have much exposure to a non-strawman version of my point of view that they can actually interact with. At the moment, I think it's probably the most politically effective thing I can do.
gt_ 9y ago
I do not understand why, but since quitting Facebook 6 months ago, I have experienced being better in touch with many friends. More of them reach out to me directly and the conversations feel more meaningful. Of course, this is only anecdote but it has been pretty surprising. I did leave Messenger on my phone, and I’m not sure if I will want to remove it, largely because I did move a year ago and am about to move again.
creep 9y ago
This is my experience. I live on the outskirts of my very large city. Most people are near the core, or live in the exact opposite direction of me on the other side of the city because it's cheaper there. I don't have classes with my friends, who go to other universities or are in different programs. If I didn't have a social media platform I would literally never talk to these people. But, instead of using Facebook to "share my life", I post articles and discussions I find interesting or relevant, which sparks healthier discussion on the platform. Most of my time on Facebook is spent catching up with still-good friends in messenger. I also keep my friend count low-- I have around 50 people on Facebook, all of whom I have spent a significant amount of time with in the past, all of whom I enjoy as people. I think it's all about how the platform is used. Yes, it's designed to be addictive, but the less friends you have added, the less notifications you will receive daily. If one doesn't post many personal details, or does not document their life on their timeline, one can avoid most of the data-grabbing. I have two photos of me showing my face. I close the Facebook tab when not in use, and check it once a day. If no one has messaged me I close the tab again. I don't check Facebook on my phone. As a sidenote, having HN as a source for "distraction" has helped me significantly. I check this site in the morning and learn something new everyday. But it doesn't feel like "work", it feels like a "break", similar to the feeling Facebook once gave me but without the guilt.

Erik816 9y ago

Contentious public debates with people I barely know is exactly why I use Facebook less than I used to.

damal 9y ago
It's far better concentrating that effort on something constructive like reading a book or taking part in a creative hobby. Social media is a time suck... I would go so far as describing it as a scourge on humanity.
- acjohnson55 9y ago
  Would you consider participating in HN forums to be social media? I think it quite literally is that.
  - damal 9y ago
    Yes, the voting system makes it social media. It's not as manipulative as other websites, but it's for that reason I wouldn't class it as a discussion forum.
code_duck 9y ago
Then, after you have a contentious public debate with someone you barely know, your actual friends and acquaintances on FB are repeatedly encouraged to go read the exchange. And since you were talking to that person so much, FB's algorithm reasons it means you must like them a lot, so your news feed starts telling you about everything the person you were arguing with is doing.
- acjohnson55 9y ago
  To an extent, I think that's a good thing. It keeps challenging points of view in my feed. If I ever found someone truly abusive, I'd block them. But that's never happened to me. As I said elsewhere, my discussions can get pretty heated, but I try always to be respectful. At the end of the day, I'm more concerned with how my point of view appears to lurkers than to someone I'm debating. I'm unlikely to change that person's mind in any given convo.

beeskneecaps 9y ago

Surely there’s a way to keep these relationships alive outside of the system! Even an opportunity to make them more meaningful.

username223 9y ago
> Surely there’s a way to keep these relationships alive outside of the system! Yes: RSS and/or email lists. I have a blog and email client, but I also know some people who wouldn't use those things. It sucks, but that's the way things are now.
- thwarted 9y ago
  Maybe those people should know someone who doesn't use Facebook, instead of you thinking you're forced to use Facebook because they won't use something else.
pbhjpbhj 9y ago
We share video with grandparents, for example, you could do it by links sent over email but social-media is easier. I used to use YouTube, but Facebook upload is easier and privacy controls are easier for me. We get to see them about twice a year because of cost and distance of travel.

ACow_Adonis 9y ago

I don't know if it's my age/class/nationality/background or what, but there is no way in hell I would participate in any serious discussion on a platform like facebook, both because they're using that data, and because it's notionally attached to my identity. Indeed, the main reason to have an account there now is to avoid the "you don't have a facebook account" judgement. The thought people would put themselves out there like that strikes me as being incredibly privaledged or incredibly naive...

opportune 9y ago
Completely agree. Associating my actual views with my real identity makes me uncomfortable as well - not so much concerned about what Facebook would do with that data, more concerned with the fact that it will cause people I know or have a strong chance of meeting to dislike/hate me for a reason that I'd rather not give them. Also, having a "debate" over FB sounds only moderately more pleasant than having a debate in the comments of a Youtube video.
- acjohnson55 9y ago
  I don't do it because it's pleasant. In fact, it's often really stressful. I do it because I think it's crucial, in the same sense that I think any sort of political or social engagement is crucial. As far as the risk of people hating me, I try really hard to always be respectful of people I debate with. I think for that reason, I've been able to keep friendships with people I regularly have some pretty intense disagreements with.
  - pbhjpbhj 9y ago
    Same, it's important to have safe contentious discussions and for people to be challenged in their social-media bubble.
acjohnson55 9y ago
Yep, I am incredibly privileged to be able to do so. But I also know that some of the people I interact with wouldn't otherwise have much exposure to a non-strawman version of my point of view that they can actually interact with. At the moment, I think it's probably the most politically effective thing I can do.

gt_ 9y ago

I do not understand why, but since quitting Facebook 6 months ago, I have experienced being better in touch with many friends. More of them reach out to me directly and the conversations feel more meaningful. Of course, this is only anecdote but it has been pretty surprising. I did leave Messenger on my phone, and I’m not sure if I will want to remove it, largely because I did move a year ago and am about to move again.

creep 9y ago

This is my experience. I live on the outskirts of my very large city. Most people are near the core, or live in the exact opposite direction of me on the other side of the city because it's cheaper there. I don't have classes with my friends, who go to other universities or are in different programs. If I didn't have a social media platform I would literally never talk to these people. But, instead of using Facebook to "share my life", I post articles and discussions I find interesting or relevant, which sparks healthier discussion on the platform. Most of my time on Facebook is spent catching up with still-good friends in messenger. I also keep my friend count low-- I have around 50 people on Facebook, all of whom I have spent a significant amount of time with in the past, all of whom I enjoy as people. I think it's all about how the platform is used. Yes, it's designed to be addictive, but the less friends you have added, the less notifications you will receive daily. If one doesn't post many personal details, or does not document their life on their timeline, one can avoid most of the data-grabbing. I have two photos of me showing my face. I close the Facebook tab when not in use, and check it once a day. If no one has messaged me I close the tab again. I don't check Facebook on my phone. As a sidenote, having HN as a source for "distraction" has helped me significantly. I check this site in the morning and learn something new everyday. But it doesn't feel like "work", it feels like a "break", similar to the feeling Facebook once gave me but without the guilt.