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"I think it's properly classified as a species of religious conservatism, and doesn't even belong on the left." No, it like or not it belongs on the 'left.' T

by astine 16y ago

"I think it's properly classified as a species of religious conservatism, and doesn't even belong on the left." No, it like or not it belongs on the 'left.' The difference between 'left wing' and 'right wing' ideologies isn't the presence of a religious nature, secular or otherwise, nor does it have anything to do with any specific policy. The difference is this: 'right wing' ideologies take for their inspiration an idealized past, 'left wing' ideologies take for their inspiration an imagined future.

api 16y ago
I've always seen conservatism as being rooted in the immutability of human nature and social structures (and a related protectionism for existing social structures) and liberalism as being rooted in the idea that improvement in the human condition is possible. Green ideology is rooted in the idea of absolute limits to human progress and a related idea that attempts to exceed these (often relatively arbitrary) limits are somehow sinful. I consider that more right-wing than left-wing. It says "know your place and stay there" not "try to make something better."
- astine 16y ago
  Your understanding is not in keeping with the historical uses of these words. We get the term 'left-wing' from the French Revolution, where in the Revolutionary Assembly, those who gathered on the left side of the Assembly were more radical than those who gathered on the right. During the height of the Terror, the left side killed the right side and the center moved to the left. At their peek, the Jacobins were every bit as dogmatic and psuedo-religious as Greenpeace, (they were in fact explicit about their attempts to create a new religion.) Soviet Bolshevism presents a similar story but I won't get into it. 'Conservativism' is different than 'right wing,' and 'liberalism' is different than 'left wing.' The standard polisci definition is that (small 'c') 'conservatives' seek slow organic change in society while (small 'l') 'liberals' seek deliberate and intentional change. In addiction we have 'radicals,' who seek total change and an overthrow of the current system, and 'reactionaries' who either want no change, or to reverse the flow. ('Radical conservative,' is an oxymoron') Big 'C' Conservatives and big 'L' Liberals are different still, (and both are different than 'Progressives.') Greenpeace is radical, left-wing movement. They are such in the same way that both the French Revolution and Bolshevism were radical left-wing movements.
- bitwize 16y ago
  No. Green ideology is rooted in the idea of absolute limits to resource depletion and a related idea that attempts to exceed these limits threaten all life on Earth. Western notions of "human progress" during the last few centuries or so happen to correlate well with resource depletion. Green ideology presents a challenge to these notions of progress, and tantalizes us with the possibility of alternative notions of progress (e.g., sustainable development, permaculture, green technology, etc.)
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- gaius 16y ago
  If you want to understand green ideology: http://www.prisonplanet.com/caviar-scoffing-co2-belching-prostitute-molesting-climate-crooks-convene-for-the-mass-raping.html http://www.prisonplanet.com/caviar-scoffing-co2-belching-pro...

by astine 16y ago

api 16y ago

I've always seen conservatism as being rooted in the immutability of human nature and social structures (and a related protectionism for existing social structures) and liberalism as being rooted in the idea that improvement in the human condition is possible. Green ideology is rooted in the idea of absolute limits to human progress and a related idea that attempts to exceed these (often relatively arbitrary) limits are somehow sinful. I consider that more right-wing than left-wing. It says "know your place and stay there" not "try to make something better."

astine 16y ago
Your understanding is not in keeping with the historical uses of these words. We get the term 'left-wing' from the French Revolution, where in the Revolutionary Assembly, those who gathered on the left side of the Assembly were more radical than those who gathered on the right. During the height of the Terror, the left side killed the right side and the center moved to the left. At their peek, the Jacobins were every bit as dogmatic and psuedo-religious as Greenpeace, (they were in fact explicit about their attempts to create a new religion.) Soviet Bolshevism presents a similar story but I won't get into it. 'Conservativism' is different than 'right wing,' and 'liberalism' is different than 'left wing.' The standard polisci definition is that (small 'c') 'conservatives' seek slow organic change in society while (small 'l') 'liberals' seek deliberate and intentional change. In addiction we have 'radicals,' who seek total change and an overthrow of the current system, and 'reactionaries' who either want no change, or to reverse the flow. ('Radical conservative,' is an oxymoron') Big 'C' Conservatives and big 'L' Liberals are different still, (and both are different than 'Progressives.') Greenpeace is radical, left-wing movement. They are such in the same way that both the French Revolution and Bolshevism were radical left-wing movements.
bitwize 16y ago
No. Green ideology is rooted in the idea of absolute limits to resource depletion and a related idea that attempts to exceed these limits threaten all life on Earth. Western notions of "human progress" during the last few centuries or so happen to correlate well with resource depletion. Green ideology presents a challenge to these notions of progress, and tantalizes us with the possibility of alternative notions of progress (e.g., sustainable development, permaculture, green technology, etc.)
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
gaius 16y ago
If you want to understand green ideology: http://www.prisonplanet.com/caviar-scoffing-co2-belching-prostitute-molesting-climate-crooks-convene-for-the-mass-raping.html http://www.prisonplanet.com/caviar-scoffing-co2-belching-pro...