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The importance of dumb mistakes in college
- Cyph0n 9y agoI agree with the point about how technology exposes some kinds of experiments a bit too much. But jail time? Sorry, that's not just a "mistake", that's outright reckless stupidity (obvious exception: protesting civil issues or similar). Just because you (the author) made a stupid decision and narrowly avoided jail time, does not mean that what you did was a good thing in general. Following that logic, should we also argue for reckless driving if some CEO of a startup narrowly missed killing someone back in the day? Should we all drive recklessly so that we can "learn from our mistakes"?
- Swizec 9y ago> But jail time? Sorry, that's not just a "mistake", that's outright reckless stupidity (obvious exception: protesting civil issues or similar). Is spray painting “corporate deathburgers” on a McDonalds not a form of protest? Sure it’s vandalism as well, but it’s also protest. What if they spray painted “we are 99%” on the same McDonald’s and got jail time? Then “it’s different”?
- Cyph0n 9y agoSpray painting on property that is not yours is vandalism. Vandalism is illegal. When I said "protest", I meant getting wrongfully arrested for peaceful protesting, e.g., during the civil rights movement. The kind of arrest that involves standing up for what's right. That is something we can all learn from. Getting arrested for spray painting? That's plain stupid. Maybe Banksy could write a similar op-ed, but I would still think that his argument was stupid.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- MereInterest 9y agoAn arrest can be perfectly legal, despite being unethical. Saying that vandalism is illegal and is therefore an illegitimate form of protest is like saying that the Civil Rights Movement sit-ins were illegal, and were therefore an illegitimate form of protest. It simply doesn't follow. Do I think that it is an effective form of protest? Not in the slightest. Do I think that it can be categorically ruled out on the basis of legality? Absolutely not.
- Cyph0n 9y agoI agree with you completely: legality definitely is not absolute. But if your protest is illegal for no valid or higher moral reason, then I don't think it's worth the risk. Going back to the "mistakes are good in college" argument, college students should be smart and mature enough to know which mistakes are actually worth the jail time.
- MereInterest 9y agoCollege students should be sufficiently smart and mature, yes. I didn't read the article as saying that college students should deliberately make mistakes for the sake of having made them. Rather, the article was focusing more on the response when inadvisable behavior occurs. Should it be seen as a moral fault on the individual, to be punished, or should it be seen as a societal failure, to be used as a teaching moment? The problem is that it is very hard to have situational rules as a population size gets very large. For a population of 100, everybody knows everybody else, and so any failing can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. Since you see everybody every day, you can tell which failings are habitual, and which are rare. For a population with limited communication, exile is a useful tool, including self-inflicted exile after social shaming. This is a useful conversation to have, because we are seeing the first generation with fast communication and indefinite storage. Effectively all college students now have everything about them recorded. 40 years down the line, all politicians will have a searchable history. We, as a society, will need to figure out how to deal with this glut of details, as no previous strategy suits the new situation. There are too many people to keep track of, so one can't get a feel for everybody's habitual behavior. There are also too many details available, so the previous strategy of excluding everybody who has a memorable negative detail available is no longer valid. This turned into more of a ramble than I had expected, but I think it is a complicated issue, which deserves thought.
- labster 9y agoBanksy is free to spray paint $100000 of value onto my property any day.
- Cyph0n 9y agoSame here. But I'm sure neither of us would enjoy it as much if it was a random college student instead.
- labster 9y agoYeah. But UC Davis had a bridge outside of town, kind of hidden by vegetation. While there was very little graffiti in the city, that bridge was an open space for graffiti and spray-paint art. I like having public places like that where vandalism is implicitly allowed, so that the rest of us can have nice property. Banksy can paint on my property because he has something to say. Someone just writing their name needs somewhere else to work on their artistic voice.
- Cyph0n 9y agoYes, I also like the idea of dedicated public space. It brings out really cool graffiti. For example, I remember seeing a huge mural on the side of an apartment building in Warsaw. It's not "because he has something to say", but rather "because it's worth a shit ton". I'm sure there are many graffiti artists who have more interesting ideas than Banksy does. Would you be alright having an insightful tag on your wall that's worth nothing more than the insight?
- kaybe 9y agoThere are many cities with areas with explicit permissions in Germany/Europe. There are lists online too.
- Spooky23 9y agoShould a student be unemployable in many situations because of a minor misdemeanor? That happens. Rap sheets should mostly age out or be more inaccessible... especially for petty property crimes.
- Cyph0n 9y agoNo, I don't think that's fair. But the author is explicitly encouraging such behavior because it all worked out for him/her in hindsight. That's what I don't agree with.
- bsder 9y ago> the author is explicitly encouraging such behavior That wasn't what I read. What I read was if you do something that happens to be negative in some way and get noticed, this is now a permanent scarlet letter. This can range from his "corporate deathburgers" (which is vandalism) to a "controversial editorial" (which isn't illegal at all but can bring the wrath of the universe on you). I bet that ALL of us have said things at various points that we would not want recorded forever. Unfortunately, we have not yet evolved appropriately calibrated social behaviors to deal with this. The current modality of "No Tolerance--Burn The Infidel(tm)" for everything, no matter how minor, is not helpful.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Spooky23 9y agoWe have. It’s called forgetting and leaving stuff in the past. Now we have records of everything and disqualify folks with no meaningful reasoning. When I started my career in the late 90s, I know of a half dozen senior leaders who were actively involved in the Vietnam era anti war movement. My one director had a scar on the back of his head when some cop on a horse cracked it open with a truncheon. He was arrested for loitering and woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed. That experience might have excluded him from service with the FBI, but otherwise would have no impact. Twenty years from now, will some bullshit arrest like that impact an 18 year old at a Trump protest? Probably.
- bsder 9y ago> But jail time? Sorry, that's not just a "mistake", that's outright reckless stupidity (obvious exception: protesting civil issues or similar). "Obvious" exception? "Hey, get your stupid protest out of my way to work, jerk." See how that works? Not so obvious anymore, is it? The issue we currently have is that the US justice system is set up for punishment and retribution rather than rehabilitation. We also have a problem in that we somewhere began trying to punish people even after they have "served their punishment and made retribution". Both of these need to change.
- Cyph0n 9y agoYou can get a permit to protest. Also, there are venues that are more suitable than others. If you are part of a strike, things become different. But assuming all of the above is invalid, don't you think protesting an issue like segregation is worth getting people upset about their delayed commute? Personally, I wouldn't mind sacrificing some of my convenience to support people protesting an issue that is important. In a way, it's the price I pay for not joining in on the protest!
- bsder 9y ago> Personally, I wouldn't mind sacrificing some of my convenience to support people protesting an issue that is important. Even at the height of the civil rights movement, the vast majority of the country was apathetic to hostile. That is simply the nature of fighting for these things. Popular positions don't need protests.
- Cyph0n 9y ago> Popular positions don't need protests. As someone who has lived in dictatorships for most of my life, I strongly disagree with this statement. I guess it's the kind of thing that only someone who lives and breathes democracy would say. On a related note, I'm always amused by people who are strongly against weapons research and manufacturing, especially in the US. It's easy to say "we don't need weapons research" when you are living in a country that possesses the most advanced weapons tech in the world, or even in a country that is a member of the EU or NATO. When your country can't even manufacture an assault rifle and has to rely on potential future enemies to supply it with arms, that's when weapons research becomes necessary.
- smnrchrds 9y agoWhat if his example was about getting busted for smoking marijuana?
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- HighPlainsDrftr 9y agoI think the point the author is trying to make is: - Spray painting is easy. - Political viewpoints change with time. They mature as the individual does.(whatever that means) - Spray painting a political viewpoint in the 80's and getting caught wouldn't get the the entire online world riled up and debating the problem. You would get the opportunity to continue thinking the same way or change your way of thinking in a somewhat private matter. In the 80's, if you had been caught doing what the author was doing, you'd probably have to clean it up (much harder than the original act). People - especially younger people - need the opportunity to learn and grow. Some will make some terrible mistakes and that has to be dealt with. Others will make mistakes - and they need to have the opportunity to evaluate their position and learn from it (good or bad).
- ataturk 9y agoYou would be very surprised, actually. How many notable people have had serious run ins with the law, especially in their youth. My first year of college was as a frequent flyer through the justice system, but nothing super serious, mostly just abject disrespect for the social hierarchy and legal order. A bit of anarchism combined with rebellion against the machine sprinkled with a dash of "doing it for the lulz" type pranks and all kinds of bad things grew from there. I got kicked out of school, and much like the author "narrowly avoided jail." 26 years later, I have a PhD, have made millions of dollars, and haven't had so much as a jaywalking ticket since then. Almost everyone deserves a second chance. Almost. I still think most of what our federal government does is WRONG WRONG WRONG and that people who wield power should be brought to justice for their crimes, along with all the other filth who inhabit leadership roles and then do nothing but produce kickbacks, corruption, and murderous misdeeds in our names. And hey, some things you never grow out of--if anarchy can help build back a better system, then maybe we need a little anarchy.
- itronitron 9y agoAn alternative view is that a college student making dumb mistakes is not being sufficiently (or effectively) guided through their specific interests and passions. While I agree that people should be able to make mistakes and learn and recover from them I also think that college students are generally unguided. The consequence is that many opportunities (not dumb and not mistakes) are unrecognized and lost.
- watwut 9y agoThey are adults. Their peers with lower grades are working and expected to live like adults.
- qball 9y ago>Their peers are expected to live like adults. Interesting perspective, considering many of them today still live like children (living with one's parents is the polar opposite of living like an adult). As such, the age of majority in developed countries today is (functionally) nearly 25; I expect the law to catch up within a generation. Of course, this is all due to economic circumstances- this isn't 1970, so you can't just walk into a factory and get a job like you could then. And _that's_ the real reason for this conversation- the economy has contracted so much in its demand for manpower that being on social media doing something stupid is now a big deal (and even worse, that it's able to discriminate enough that university attendance is now mandatory to get jobs that should only require a high school education).
- watwut 9y agoMaybe because I am from different culture, I don't see a big deal about that living arrangement. If it is cheaper and you don't have much money, it is more mature financially reasonable arrangement then paying more just to prove yourself adulthood. And if you live away from parents, bit they helped you with paying or getting college debt, then you are less independent then you think. On the other extreme,I have read older geberation brags about how their adult children could not wait to leave and are independent enough to never call. I don't see that as achievement. If you was such a dick to your offspring that they disliked you so much, then you are just that. In any case, cops nor judges treat these people as children. Nor should they, adulthood means we consider you old enough to co trolling your actions and be responsible for then. Living arrangement has little to do with it. People are too eager to use their own consumer choices as adulthood marks. Adulthood is about making choices now, not back then. And is independent of whether you use public transport or car.
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- watwut 9y agoFun exercise: what if the one spraying on store would not be charsmatic college student, but a dude who barely finished high school and looks ugly? How much of the causual attitude would apply?
- ethftw 9y agoDepends, how rich is the dude?
- marcoperaza 9y agoIf you treat people like children, immune from consequences, they will act like children. If you hold them to a higher standard, the vast majority will rise to it.
- HighPlainsDrftr 9y agoWhen are children immune from consequences? Any good parent will discipline or correct their child for mistakes. It is after the child leaves home and has to function on its own does it become a bigger problem.
- analog31 9y agoA good parent will discipline its child, but also give its child a second chance. And a third, and so forth. An observation that I've read on HN is that second and third chances are distributed un-equally, typically favoring the children of the wealthy and powerful.
- watwut 9y agoAnd if you raise standard too high, the majority will fail. That is an easy way how to get back to people or groups of people you dislike - hold them to higher standard.
- LogicX 9y agoI think the problem starts far earlier than college... Imagine a 1st grader who brings a butterknife to school - zero tolerance policy kicks in, and you have a far too impactful outcome. When I was in kindergarden, I kissed a girl in the closet. I wonder how that would go over today. Technology plays a role, but just in general, society's handling of incidents is too extreme these days.
- chrischen 9y ago> When I was in kindergarden, I kissed a girl in the closet. I wonder how that would go over today. That's going to come out when you run for office when she accuses you of sexually assaulting her.
- kelukelugames 9y agoYou are fine. One of my co worker's kids was licked in kindergarden by another kid. Nobody made a big deal out of it.
- bitwize 9y agoDepending on the jurisdiction, that could be a registerable sex offense. And the offense record won't say "Billy kissed a girl when he was in kindergarten", it'll say "INDCNCY W/ MINOR, VICTIM UNDER 12".
- dreamdu5t 9y agoNo college should not be a time for dumb mistakes. That should be earlier. 20 year olds should be treated like adults not children. College should not be a place to party, recklessly use drugs, recklessly have sex and sexually assault women, and graffiti things. What an incredibly low standard.
- blfr 9y agoI don't find OP's premise believable. Corporations do not support free speech as they have shown time and again. A student opposed to it is unlikely to see any employment-related consequences from such stance. Quite the opposite. Unlike vandalizing McDondald's, that editorial[1] shows the student is willing to abridge his own freedom in favour of diversity, which is probably the most popular corporate value, and conformity, which may be omitted from official documents but remains in demand. [1] http://thewellesleynews.com/2017/04/12/free-speech-is-not-violated-at-wellesley/ http://thewellesleynews.com/2017/04/12/free-speech-is-not-vi...
- ZenoArrow 9y agoYou're mixing up the situation today with the situation as it was in the 80's. The whole point of the article was that it's helpful that people can make mistakes without a high level of public scrutiny. The suggestion being made is that this has become an endangered privilege in the modern age. The editorial you shared is one from earlier this year. This does not disprove the article, if anything it reinforces it. The need to be more diplomatic whilst growing up is greater now because of that increased public scrutiny. The idea that 'hate speech' is best addressed by silence than dialogue is not one solely driven by a desire to give up on freedom, it is also driven by a practical need to stop youthful mistakes wrecking prospects in later life. Take a step back and think about the mistakes you made growing up. Now consider if those same mistakes were permanently recorded in the public domain. Does that seem like something that would've been helpful to your personal growth?
- blfr 9y agoThe article I linked to is the example OP used, not something I offered. And it's not about the tone of that editorial but its direction which is completely aligned with the modern corporate expectations and nothing like vandalizing a McDonald's with an anti-corporate slogan. Sure, maybe college kids are adjusting their values because of the permanence of record. But it's a completely different thesis from the one presented in the OP (let them make mistakes on a smaller scale). Actually, a much more interesting one.
- nradov 9y agoWhat a stupid article. Why should being a college student bring special privileges to make dumb mistakes and escape consequences? What about other young people? If it's important for college students to be able to make dumb mistakes then why shouldn't the same apply to young factory workers or bus drivers or soldiers? It's articles like this by authors who have never worked a real job that make regular Americans think that academics are out of touch with the real world.
- hudibras 9y agoMaybe the author could have put something like this in the article: "Technology is a lead actor in this drama, but of course, privilege and power influence how the narrative plays out. Some people are given more learning opportunities than others. I might have been a longhair with spray paint when I got arrested, but the arresting officers also marked me as a white University of Michigan student. Had I been someone else, I might have learned a different lesson. But our response to inequality shouldn’t be to strip the privilege of learning from the lucky few who can already enjoy it. We must expand this universal right to develop and grow."
- ZenoArrow 9y agoWow, okay, I think you've missed the points made by this article. To summarise the article... 1. We learn valuable lessons from our mistakes. 2. Before the era of smartphones and social media, people could make mistakes and not have those mistakes follow them around for the rest of their lives. 3. By making mistakes more public we're creating a chilling effect on learning. 4. The freedom to make mistakes isn't one that should be limited to a select few. Aside from certain types of mistake that should be dealt with strongly by the legal system, the freedom to make mistakes and learn from them is a privilege that we should give to the majority of people. Do you disagree with any of the points above?
- totalZero 9y agoThe article is from NYT's On Campus column, which specifically focuses on colleges. > Dispatches from college students, professors and administrators on higher education and university life. Despite the title, I don't get the impression that the author specifically limits his suggestions to college students, nor does he specifically exclude other young people.
- cm2187 9y agoBasically the author is arguing is that college students should be treated as children and therefore not responsible (and therefore accountable) for their actions because too young to know better. Where we place the line between adults and children can be debated (are 18yo really mature enough to be treated as adults?). But one can't get "being taken seriously" and "having the protection offered to children for not knowing better" at the same time. I personally think that you can't really consider them adults before age 22. And for that reason we should stop taking student protests seriously.
- ZenoArrow 9y ago> "But one can't get "being taken seriously" and "having the protection offered to children for not knowing better" at the same time." Sure you can. You're thinking in a binary manner, in reality 'respect' and 'protection' are not binary. To explain in simple terms, a student should be able to have both 'some' protection and 'some' respect. You don't have to protect someone like a child at the same time as respecting them as an adult.
- devdad 9y agoSo many commenters are missing the point or actively trying to misread the article. The point is that when you're young you're going to do things that seem correct and thought through at the time, but might not be when you've aged. For those of us that were able to make these mistakes before social media, we got the time to reflect and correct / adapt out behavior. We now strip the young of this moment of reflection when the web can explode over night over non-issues, effectively creating a situation where a simple Google on a twenty year old might bring up a wall of discussion about the bad behavior. I'm in my mid thirties and am not as angry with social issues as I were in my teens. The things I did and the things that shaped me were discussed and corrected by a small group of people, not an angry mob on the internet that didn't really know me. I'm grateful for that.
- PeterStuer 9y agoHear hear! Even here on HN, e.g. discussions that come within a 200 mile radius of identity politics can immediately expect to be mobbed. I'm still trying to figure out whether these misrepresentations are deliberate, or just the result of an extremely biased or myopic world view. Communication by nature only works if the parties involved are trying to understand each other. Deliberately trying to polarize or frame each sentence doesn't serve any purpose other than to fuel division.
- Clubber 9y agoI read a comment on here I believe where someone surmised this is an effect of the anti-bully movement that happened about 10 years ago. Now we not only have bullies (in the traditional term) but we have mobs of people who are eager to bully a perceived bully and have zero tolerance for anything other than their subscribed world view. The antidote is the same it's been since before the internet: don't put much value in what people think about you.
- indubitable 9y agoIn many things in life when people decide a 'side' it's most often an entirely subjective decision. This is by itself not immediately terrible - take a side and then adjust as you find a view more, or less, defensible or reasonable. The problem is when people get into situations where they consider the alternative absolutely unthinkable. How can they respond to views that challenge their own in this case? I think this is why you see 95% of "discussion" in contentious topics end up as being loaded with little more than straw men, ad hominem, and all the other fun products of internet "discussion." Of course the problem is people thinking anything ought be unthinkable. The domain of the faithful is one I'd rather never rejoin again -- perhaps a personal voyage too few have been given the opportunity to undertake in today's society.
- barrkel 9y agoThis plea for leniency compared with the harsh treatment of poor kids no longer in school making similarly immature mistakes doesn't cut a whole lot of ice with me.
- mcherm 9y agoYou may be missing the point. Those "poor kids" you refer to should ALSO be granted an opportunity to rebuild their reputations.
- barrkel 9y agoMy objection is not just to the entitled hypocrisy, but also to giving leniency to young vandals with little self-awareness or understanding of how the world works. I see it as a failure of earlier education rather than something to be forgiven.
- bartread 9y agoYeah, OK, but let's just say some young person - privileged or otherwise - chooses to scrawl "Corporate Deathburgers" across a fast-food outlet. Nobody's saying they shouldn't be punished for it. What I think the author is asking is, should that incident then follow them around forever and ruin the rest of their life? I'd say, no, it shouldn't. But nowadays there's a significantly higher than, say, 20 years ago chance that it might. Justice, even retributive justice, demands that the punishment must fit the crime. Yet what we see nowadays is wildly disproportionate: Justine Sacco's life was completely ruined because she cracked a moderately poor taste joke on the internet. The response and consequences of this were entirely ridiculous, over the top, and unnecessary, and it's taken years for her to reconstruct a relatively normal life. I don't think that's OK. I think the author is suggesting he doesn't think it is either.
- spodek 9y agoReinforcing the importance of dumb mistakes... A friend wrote a heartfelt essay in a campus magazine that the rest of us found laughable. We taunted and laughed at him for years about it. A couple years ago he won a Pulitzer Prize. The lineage from that essay to the prize is obvious in retrospect to me and probably looking forward for him at the time. It's never too late for your dumb mistake. I'm 46 and my just-released podcast -- https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/leadership-and-the-environment/id1320141457 https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/leadership-and-the-envir... -- which opened at #38 in Science on iTunes, emerged from laughable mistakes I made public speaking on the environment earlier this year.
- bernardino 9y agoI’m in college, and have made my fair of mistakes that I think are “dumb” in the eyes of my peers, family, friends, society, etc, but not many that I think are “dumb” in my eyes. The most prominent mistake that I can think of? I’m spending a fourth year at a community college rather than having transferred to a university after my second or third year. I graduated high school in June 2014. I should have graduated college in May/June 2018. But now I will most likely be graduating May/June 2020 (heck, maybe a few semesters later). My life as of now has not turned out the way I had planned it. I have yet to have an internship under my belt. I have no connections. If you will, I’m a twenty-two-year-old modern day George Costanza prior to him getting that job with the New York Yankees - when he’s living with his parents and has no job. Yet I think I’ll be just okay. But above all, I would like to advise other people, not only colleges students but to those who think they have made “dumb” decisions: Please do not worry. Modern mass culture, or as the film maker Tarkovsky writes, the civilization of prosthetics, cripples people's souls and makes people's mistakes/problems bigger than they actually are. Though I recall a year ago, struggling alone and having no hope. What guided me towards today? Rainer Maria Rilke’s Letters to a Young Poet. Here are a few quotes from the book: "Everything seems to me to have its just emphasis; and after all I do only want to advise you to keep growing quietly and seriously throughout your whole development; you cannot disturb it more rudely than by looking outward and expecting from outside replies to questions that only your inmost feeling in your most hushed hour can perhaps answer." "Consider yourself and your feeling right every time with regard to every such argumentation, discussion or introduction; if you are wrong after all, the natural growth of your inner life will lead you slowly and with time to other insights. Leave your opinions their own quiet undisturbed development, which, like all progress, must come from deep within and cannot be pressed or hurried by anything. Everything is gestation and then bringing forth. To let each impression and each germ of a feeling to come to completion wholly in itself, in the dark, in the inexpressible, the unconscious, beyond the reach of one's own intelligence, and await with deep humility and patience the birth-hour of a new clarity: that alone is living the artist's life: in understanding as in creating." "If you will cling to Nature, to the simple in Nature, to the little things that hardly anyone sees, and that can so unexpectedly become big and beyond measuring; if you have this love of inconsiderable things and seek quite simply, as one who serves, to win the confidence of what seems poor: then everything will become easier, more coherent and somehow more conciliatory for you, not in your intellect, perhaps, which lags marveling behind, but in your inmost consciousness, waking and cognizance. You are so young, so before all beginning, and I want to beg you, as much as I can, dear sir, to be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart and try to love the questions themselves like locked rooms and like books that are written in a very foreign tongue." "Live the questions now. Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it, live along some distant day into the answer." "We know little, but that we must hold to what is difficult is a certainty that will not forsake us; it is good to be solitary, for solitude is difficult; that something is difficult must be a reason the more for us to do it." "And if there is one thing more that I must say to you, it is this: Do not believe that he who seeks to comfort you lives untroubled among the simple and quiet words that sometimes do you good. His life has much difficulty and sadness and remains far behind yours. Were it otherwise he would never have been able to find these words." "There is perhaps no use my going into your particular points now; for what I could say about your tendency to doubt or about your inability to bring outer and inner life into unison, or about all the other things that worry you —: it is always what I have already said: always the wish that you may find patience enough in yourself to endure, and simplicity enough to believe; that you may acquire more and more confidence in that which is difficult, and in your solitude among others. And for the rest, let life happen to you. Believe me: life is right, in any case."
- kjrose 9y agoI love how he says people should make dumb mistakes and then in the next sentence actively disqualified people he disagrees with from having the same privilege under the guise of “well you can’t allo hate speech.” It’s so typical.
- mhb 9y agoIt's also both a curious distinction and conflation that he implies when he says ...sexual violence or racial hatred. Why not just say violence instead of sexual violence? And why is racial hatred more of a bogeyman than general hatred. And then why conflate (physical) violence with hatred (thoughts)?
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- Clubber 9y ago>If a Williams student spray-painted “Corporate Deathburgers” on a local building today The biggest difference between today and when I went to college (a decade or so after the author) is now the kid would get thrown in jail, convicted and stuck with probation and a permanent record. Very difficult things to get out from under and in many states, follow you for life. I understand the problem with the digital stuff as well, that is similar, if not just as bad as a permanent record.
- madengr 9y agoIt’s high school too. Cops have dash and body cams now. It used to be they’d just take your beer. No discretion now.