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Apple’s widened ban on templated apps wiping small businesses from the App Store
- elijahlofgren 9y agoThis does seem unfortunate especially considering the enforcement doesn’t target Apple’s parter IBM which the article says develops similar apps. I guess the answer is that for many of these apps they need to make their own without a template or just encourage use of a mobile website.
- megaman22 9y agoThey pay the protection money.
- mcny 9y agoThey do better than just pay protection money. https://www.cio.com/article/3133945/hardware/ibm-says-macs-save-up-to-543-per-user.html https://www.cio.com/article/3133945/hardware/ibm-says-macs-s... screenshot https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/db98b0b7-15c5-432a-832c-d9a915bc8a62.png https://screenshots.firefoxusercontent.com/images/db98b0b7-1...
- dkonofalski 9y agoThat's a silly response. IBM provides enterprise level apps that are distributed outside of the app store. That doesn't really apply to this situation.
- votepaunchy 9y agoAre the IBM apps in the App Store or just for enterprises?
- hbcondo714 9y agoOther than AppMakr that's listed in the article, I believe there are many other 'app making' companies that are affected. One of our active app store apps was built using Appery.io but we haven't received a notification like the one shown in the article.
- natch 9y agoApp developers (and their companies) are also affected by template apps, which take away their legit business by offering shitty cheap replacements. So while these destructive spammy companies are being harmed, some more creative hard working app makers would be glad to see the spammers getting shut down... there are two sides to this story. But for Apple I'm sure it's mostly about the end-user experience. If the template companies can up their game with better, more varied, templates, they should do fine.
- dkonofalski 9y agoIf you publish the packaged app under your own account, you wouldn't get the notification. The issue is the companies are flooding the store with these apps that are barely different, even in content.
- tyingq 9y agoWinning hearts and minds. I wonder if they considered how this might make small businesses feel about using Apple products.
- valuearb 9y agoWell it's "winning hearts and minds" of users who accidentally download these spammy template apps.
- tyingq 9y agoThere's likely a mix of legitimate ones and spammy ones. For example, the app needs of small family owned restaurants likely don't vary much. A templated app that does coupons, menus, take out orders, maps, etc, likely works for all. Why build a custom app from scratch?
- valuearb 9y agoYou don't have to build from scratch. You can build apps quickly using native code that are more performant, secure, and work better, and white label it with custom graphics and features. But they should actually do things and add value to your business. Most of these banned apps did very little other than display web views and images.
- jandrese 9y agoIs the app any better than just loading their webpage in the browser? There are precious few of those custom apps that offer any value over just loading the website in the built-in browser.
- jasonlotito 9y agoYou mean like an app for ordering things? Like food? Yeah, apps are useless for this and provide no value.
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- valuearb 9y agoGlad to see Apple take a stand on all these spammy templated apps.
- Powerofmene 9y agoSeems that the bigger companies are getting the more they focus on shutting businesses out of economical ways of becoming more efficient where technology is concerned. Many of these smaller businesses are simply developing a means for the convenience of their customers to do what they currently undertake but in a more time consuming manner. Yes, they hope to gain new customers but moreso they are are trying to provide a service to their existing customers. Shutting these smaller businesses out will just make it harder and more expensive for them to ever compete with the big competitors in their respective industries.
- Powerofmene 9y agoI don’t like the spammy apps but I do think there are good smaller businesses who need some of these services. I guess the challenge is finding the balance between helping small businesses and cutting down on the spammers.
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- beager 9y agoTwo viewpoints: 1. I wonder if this could be used to target things like React Native. Is there an incentive for Apple to push devs to use Swift/ObjC/Xcode to keep them on platform? Is RN’s platform agnosticism a threat? 2. Native apps are horrible and mask deficiencies in both web apps and device makers. The web should be good enough. Apps also create a walled garden which is antithetical to an open internet.
- stevenwoo 9y agoDo you have a non trivial example of #1 in React Native that works the same in Android and IOS that doesn't have a 50+ person development team? Just curious about the state of the art, Android was way behind IOS last time I looked.
- beager 9y agoI don't, as I'm removed from RN development, and I do agree that there is still a delta between platforms. But my point was that a tool like RN could allow a shift to a different platform on a whim, because it is, at its core, an abstraction layer.
- msh 9y agoGyrosco.pe i think they are only a couple of guys. https://gyrosco.pe/app/ https://gyrosco.pe/app/
- saagarjha 9y ago> Is there an incentive for Apple to push devs to use Swift/ObjC/Xcode to keep them on platform? Of course. It creates developer lock-in. > Native apps are horrible and mask deficiencies in both web apps and device makers. The web should be good enough. I'm going to have to disagree with you there. Web apps (yes, I'm including React Native here) are always inferior to a well-designed native apps. They perform significantly poorer, don't take full advantage of UIKit, and, based on many companies' engineering blogs, require a significant amount of effort to solve issues that just don't occur with native apps.
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- NicoJuicy 9y agoSo, Apple in it's esteem of for the "rich" people, doesn't care about the SMB next door that isn't a million dollar company? This is actually quite concerning. What's the motivation behind this? How can SMB's improve ordening if Apple despises the web and bans "niche related" apps?
- saagarjha 9y agoThere are two sides to this: 1. Templated apps that spam the App Store just to increase revenue. For example, games that just swap out some assets and rebrand as an entirely new experience. 2. Templated apps for small organizations such as cities and universities that differ significantly in content, but not in design. Obviously, it would be advantageous to let through apps of type #2 while blocking #1–the issue is finding a good boundary between them. I feel that the differences in content should be what really sets apps apart, instead of their design.
- freedomben 9y agoWhy not let the user rating/review system work? If an app lacks value, it will get a poor rating. User's can then avoid low-rated apps. I guess I just don't understand the Apple mentality in general that removing my choices and capabilities is better for me somehow.
- nerdwaller 9y agoThere’s a point where this trade off (let the market decide, effectively) starts to fall over. Discoverability on Google Play has long been an issue for many people I know (sadly I have no formal data on this). Like many things I’m not sure either option is a clear winner.
- badlucklottery 9y ago>If an app lacks value, it will get a poor rating. Ideally, yeah. The ongoing arms race between apple and review farmers makes that signal less likely to work.
- freedomben 9y agoGood point, the validity of reviews can be a big problem. There is a powerful incentive to figure out how to game the system, rather than putting that effort into the app.
- saagarjha 9y agoThe issue here is Apple doesn't want users to have to avoid low-rated apps–it defeats the whole point of having a walled garden and the app review process if bad apps are allowed through.
- mankash666 9y agoThis is text book antitrust. Apple runs the most profitable app store, not being on it can severely impact the bottom line of businesses. It's abusing app store leadership and picking winners on a whim, while hypocritically campaigning for net neutrality. FTC, BBB, Justice department - take note
- matte_black 9y agoCurating an app store is not antitrust.
- dreit1 9y agoCurating would be okay if there was literally any other way to distribute an app...
- shp0ngle 9y agoApple is not a monopoly on a phone market.
- mankash666 9y agoThe category here is not "phones", but app stores. Apple is certainly a monopoly there - evidence lies in the averse effects on the bottom line of not on the app store.
- arkades 9y agoApple owns less than 20% (https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/vendor) of the smartphone market, and you can access site-based services via safari. It’s a far cry short of monopoly.
- xigency 9y agoAh, yes, Safari. The only web renderer allowed on the platform. They may hold 20% marketshare but it's an important 20%. Trusts and anticompetitive practices have multiple forms as well.
- mildweed 9y agoChurch app company that has successfully pivoted to still service churches within the new rules: https://aware3.com https://aware3.com
- tinus_hn 9y agoThe notice by Apple states ‘Your app provides the same feature set as many of the other apps you’ve submitted to the App Store’. IE spam But according to the article it’s against apps creates using a template. I don’t think you get these notices if you use a template to build one app, just when you submit hundreds of the same apps.
- TheAceOfHearts 9y agoSeems like a great opportunity for them to migrate to the web. None of the examples provided seem to require features that aren't available in all major browsers. The web is open and accessible! I find it incredibly frustrating when random services expect me to install their shitty mobile app. I don't want to use any walled garden if I can avoid it. I'd view this as a small victory for the web.3
- scarface74 9y agoI don't have a strong opinion either way about Apple's stance, but why do these restaurants need an app at all? You can do online ordering and Apple Pay with a website. If the companies had tied their fate to the web instead of the App Store they wouldn't have this problem. I'm usually pro native apps for things I use every day but I'm not going to keep an app on my phone for a restaurant.
- WWLink 9y agoYeah I agree. I hate installing apps on my phone!
- ksec 9y agoBecause searching for an App within App Store with Logo shown in restaurant is infinitely easier for majority of users then typing www. whatever this is they couldn't spell.com QR Code solves this problem by simply having the user scan. I dont think restaurant needs its own App. But there are definitely some advantage to having a App Entrance to your restaurant. I think this is a problem worth solving.
- mjw1007 9y agoApple could provide a way for the app creator to add alternative app-install links which also provide a configuration setting. So that from Apple's point of view it's like having a single app which starts with a "please select your restaurant from this list" screen, only with better user experience.
- scarface74 9y agoI doubt that anyone in the almost 10 years that the Apple App Store has been opened has ever said that searching through it is easier than searching Google.
- CodeWriter23 9y agoI don’t like installing apps either. But some people, customers, do. And the native app UX is less clunky than a web app. That said, I think there should be a standard way to click a link on a website that results in an icon for the site being placed in your app launcher. (After the OS confirms you granting permission for that)
- bashinator 9y agoWhy do these small businesses need apps rather than web sites? Reading the description of these templated apps, they seem to to be the low quality kind of web site replacement that doesn't offer any extra functionality over a web site.
- freedomben 9y agoIMHO they don't; a website is much better. However some people (for reasons I don't understand) don't like to use the mobile browser. If there isn't an app, they won't do it. Does not seem to matter if the app is just a piece of crap with a web view. To clarify, I hate the mobile browser too (I much prefer the laptop/desktop user experience), but if I'm on mobile anyway the browser is better by far than a crappy app.
- tomcam 9y agoDiscoverability. Almost a form of SEO. Some people just look for an app reflexively. And template apps make sense for very simple applications such as merchant info pages or restaurant menus.
- ec109685 9y agoPush notifications require an app, which is likely a big reason for wanting to get users into apps.
- arthurfm 9y ago> Push notifications require an app An app isn't required if you use a browser that supports push notifications. https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/ https://developers.google.com/web/progressive-web-apps/ https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/codelabs/push-notifications/ https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/codelabs/push...
- npunt 9y agoOn iOS the only way to get a push notification is via an app. Mobile Safari doesn’t support push (or service workers).
- dailyvijeos 9y agoTed Liew is always on-the-ball and challenging DC bozos. Props.
- jore 9y agoI do not understand why they do not switch to "progressive web apps". What are their disadvantages compared to native apps?
- xauronx 9y agoAnyone have any idea on how this will affect the new Salesforce mobile? They recently unveiled this huge thing where you could rebrand their app and deploy it to app stores through config only. I'm about 50/50 on "this is going to ruin it for them" and "Salesforce can throw money at it to be a silent exception"
- supergirl 9y agoapple should work on improving their app store search instead of this
- pwinnski 9y agoThis seems to be part of a PR effort on the part of people making the app-creator apps. Apple is cracking down on spam apps, in which someone creates dozens or hundreds of nearly-identical apps. That's why the notice says "Your app provides the same feature set as many of the other apps you’ve submitted to the App Store, it simply varies in content or language." So if you're a company creating one app for each of three dozen restaurants, yeah, but that's spam. Solution: each restaurant publishes their app under their own account. Problem solved! But that would remove lock-in by the spam vendors, so instead they begin a PR effort.
- dkonofalski 9y agoThis is exactly it. Apple is simply requiring that apps be published under the proper owner's account rather than under the accounts of the app mills that generate them.