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My view is that if the individual mandate is eliminated then other insurers will come into the market with cheaper plans that don't include everything (Eg menta

My view is that if the individual mandate is eliminated then other insurers will come into the market with cheaper plans that don't include everything (Eg mental health) so health costs for healthy self-employed folks will go down. The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people, this happens because most people in their 20's or 30s are covered by work plans which have a better risk pool.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kxyvr 9y ago
I'm sure it will for some people. That said when I was 21, I was diagnosed and treated for stage 3 melanoma and I can assure you the drugs that I took during that year were not cheap. At this point, it's been more than a decade and I'm wonderfully healthy, but I'm considered a high-risk because of my past with cancer. Now, there's a very valid moral question as to whether or not I'm entitled to have my healthcare subsidized by others in a pool and I'm fine having that conversation. From an economic point of view, I'm just shy of my mid-thirties with an advanced degree, been in the black with a self-funded business for the last 4-5 years, and have the potential to release products in the near future that could return millions in tax dollars. However, I may be robbed of that opportunity if I'm unable to purchase health insurance that covers cancer. Certainly, that's a frustrating proposition given that the only major misstep that I had was being unfortunate enough to become afflicted with a disease not under my control. And, just in case someone is curious about high-risk pools, I actually currently carry insurance from one because the ACA marketplace in my state does not offer PPOs and I have one regular appointment out of state. Anyway, the coverage and cost of high-risk pools varied wildly from state to state. As an example, since I'm familiar with TX, prior to disbanding the pool, the law allowed high-risk individuals to purchase insurance at twice the prevailing rate from the pool. If I recall correctly, its pool used a PPO, which is no longer found on the exchange, so we'll use a gold plan EPO to approximate. In Harris county, the current premium for that rate is $429/month with an out of pocket max of $6350. If we went back to the old model of twice the prevailing rate, I'd have to budget $16,646/year, which isn't all that far off from what it used to be. Now, that's just TX and different states had different rules. In the state I'm currently in, the 2018 premium will be $514/month with a $5000 out of pocket max. And, to be clear, there is cheaper health insurance available, but my perspective of coverage and costs changed dramatically after my illness. Health insurance doesn't mean much if it doesn't cover the doctors you trust for a price you can afford. Anyway, my point is that just because someone is in their 30's and healthy doesn't mean that their coverage will become cheaper or even attainable. Further, this has broad economic implications because it will quite simply force many of us out of the self-employed market because it's not responsible to carry an insurance plan that does not provide comprehensive coverage. This tax plan has been touted as helping small businesses, but it may end mine depending on what happens to the market in 2019.
- pkaye 9y ago
  I'm in the same situation. Fairly healthy until 4 years ago when I discovered my kidneys were failing due to a autoimmune condition. Something that is not discovered early because you feel totally fine until things go really bad. Now I've reached the point I need dialysis and a kidney transplant. Yet I continue to work, pay taxes and would like to continue having affordable health care for my family and I. Also people don't think about two other high risk pools... women of childbearing age and very young children. If the heath care market is broken up many groups of people will be affected.
- hkmurakami 9y ago
  Just wanted to say that I appreciate your candidness and well trained and level headed perspective on an issue that many of our peers opt for hysterics over.
- scarface74 9y ago
  My situation was crazy. I was denied insurance right before the ACA took effect because of a "preexisting condition" that I never thought about. I have what for all intents and purposes is very mild cerebral palsy. As an adult, I've never had any complications, I was in excellent shape - I had been a part time fitness instructor for years and ran two half marathons the year before. The only noticeable effect of my CP is one of my hands.
EKLM-ZK88 9y ago
"The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people" Is that not how this all is supposed to work? the young and healthy help the old and sick, or the rich living in coastal cities help the poor living in rural areas.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  They are making a subtler claim, that the individual marketplaces are expensive to insure compared to other insurance (and thus people receiving lower subsidies pay a lot for marketplace insurance).
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  The problem is that they didn’t get rid of group plans when introducing the individual mandate, as they did in Switzerland. Group plans siphon off all the lowest risk, leaving the individual market a huge mess.
maxerickson 9y ago
Removing the individual mandate won't change the requirements for plans.
mnm1 9y ago
"The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people" So do you just hate health insurance in general then? Because all health insurance works like this.
- akmiller 9y ago
  And not just health....all insurance works like this!
meritt 9y ago
> My view is that if the individual mandate is eliminated then other insurers will come into the market That's absolutely incorrect. The individual mandate requires people purchase health insurance or face a penalty. This will do absolutely nothing to introduce additional insurers. The only thing it will achieve is increased premiums. > The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people That's the core principle of insurance, taxes, and functional governments. Everyone contributes to the same pool even if they don't directly benefit from nor utilize every aspect.
- technotony 9y ago
  The issue with this system is how the pools are created. Most people use a work pool, leaving those outside it in a lower quality pool. I'd be fine with it if the risk was spread across everyone, not if it's just certain types of employees.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

kxyvr 9y ago

I'm sure it will for some people. That said when I was 21, I was diagnosed and treated for stage 3 melanoma and I can assure you the drugs that I took during that year were not cheap. At this point, it's been more than a decade and I'm wonderfully healthy, but I'm considered a high-risk because of my past with cancer. Now, there's a very valid moral question as to whether or not I'm entitled to have my healthcare subsidized by others in a pool and I'm fine having that conversation. From an economic point of view, I'm just shy of my mid-thirties with an advanced degree, been in the black with a self-funded business for the last 4-5 years, and have the potential to release products in the near future that could return millions in tax dollars. However, I may be robbed of that opportunity if I'm unable to purchase health insurance that covers cancer. Certainly, that's a frustrating proposition given that the only major misstep that I had was being unfortunate enough to become afflicted with a disease not under my control. And, just in case someone is curious about high-risk pools, I actually currently carry insurance from one because the ACA marketplace in my state does not offer PPOs and I have one regular appointment out of state. Anyway, the coverage and cost of high-risk pools varied wildly from state to state. As an example, since I'm familiar with TX, prior to disbanding the pool, the law allowed high-risk individuals to purchase insurance at twice the prevailing rate from the pool. If I recall correctly, its pool used a PPO, which is no longer found on the exchange, so we'll use a gold plan EPO to approximate. In Harris county, the current premium for that rate is $429/month with an out of pocket max of $6350. If we went back to the old model of twice the prevailing rate, I'd have to budget $16,646/year, which isn't all that far off from what it used to be. Now, that's just TX and different states had different rules. In the state I'm currently in, the 2018 premium will be $514/month with a $5000 out of pocket max. And, to be clear, there is cheaper health insurance available, but my perspective of coverage and costs changed dramatically after my illness. Health insurance doesn't mean much if it doesn't cover the doctors you trust for a price you can afford. Anyway, my point is that just because someone is in their 30's and healthy doesn't mean that their coverage will become cheaper or even attainable. Further, this has broad economic implications because it will quite simply force many of us out of the self-employed market because it's not responsible to carry an insurance plan that does not provide comprehensive coverage. This tax plan has been touted as helping small businesses, but it may end mine depending on what happens to the market in 2019.

pkaye 9y ago
I'm in the same situation. Fairly healthy until 4 years ago when I discovered my kidneys were failing due to a autoimmune condition. Something that is not discovered early because you feel totally fine until things go really bad. Now I've reached the point I need dialysis and a kidney transplant. Yet I continue to work, pay taxes and would like to continue having affordable health care for my family and I. Also people don't think about two other high risk pools... women of childbearing age and very young children. If the heath care market is broken up many groups of people will be affected.
hkmurakami 9y ago
Just wanted to say that I appreciate your candidness and well trained and level headed perspective on an issue that many of our peers opt for hysterics over.
scarface74 9y ago
My situation was crazy. I was denied insurance right before the ACA took effect because of a "preexisting condition" that I never thought about. I have what for all intents and purposes is very mild cerebral palsy. As an adult, I've never had any complications, I was in excellent shape - I had been a part time fitness instructor for years and ran two half marathons the year before. The only noticeable effect of my CP is one of my hands.

EKLM-ZK88 9y ago

"The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people" Is that not how this all is supposed to work? the young and healthy help the old and sick, or the rich living in coastal cities help the poor living in rural areas.

maxerickson 9y ago
They are making a subtler claim, that the individual marketplaces are expensive to insure compared to other insurance (and thus people receiving lower subsidies pay a lot for marketplace insurance).
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
The problem is that they didn’t get rid of group plans when introducing the individual mandate, as they did in Switzerland. Group plans siphon off all the lowest risk, leaving the individual market a huge mess.

maxerickson 9y ago

Removing the individual mandate won't change the requirements for plans.

mnm1 9y ago

"The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people" So do you just hate health insurance in general then? Because all health insurance works like this.

akmiller 9y ago
And not just health....all insurance works like this!

meritt 9y ago

> My view is that if the individual mandate is eliminated then other insurers will come into the market That's absolutely incorrect. The individual mandate requires people purchase health insurance or face a penalty. This will do absolutely nothing to introduce additional insurers. The only thing it will achieve is increased premiums. > The thing I've always hated about Obamacare was how healthy self employed folks are subsiding the unhealthy people That's the core principle of insurance, taxes, and functional governments. Everyone contributes to the same pool even if they don't directly benefit from nor utilize every aspect.

technotony 9y ago
The issue with this system is how the pools are created. Most people use a work pool, leaving those outside it in a lower quality pool. I'd be fine with it if the risk was spread across everyone, not if it's just certain types of employees.