5 ms·

What are you talking about? Lower class people are only able to afford grad school because of tuition waivers. By taxing them as income, only people who are abl

What are you talking about? Lower class people are only able to afford grad school because of tuition waivers. By taxing them as income, only people who are able to pay out of pocket will have access to postsecondary degrees that grant higher incomes.

rayiner 9y ago
Only a small minority of lower class people ever go to grad school. Overwhelmingly, it’s a tax break that benefits the kids of upper middle class and wealthy families.
- deong 9y ago
  I don't know that I'd say "overwhelmingly". I certainly wouldn't have been able to go to grad school under this system.
  - txcwpalpha 9y ago
    Do you know what "overwhelmingly" means? Your anecdote about a single person (you) being able to or not being able to afford college doesn't mean anything. The other commenter's unsourced "overwhelmingly" claim is silly but so is yours.
    - deong 9y ago
      Think of my comment as two separate statements. First, "overwhelmingly" is silly. Second, and more or less unrelated, it would have personally affected me. The second wasn't intended as support for the first.
- gervase 9y ago
  This statement is true (yours): > Only a small minority of lower class people ever go to grad school. But so is this one (mine): > A vast majority of graduate students are from low-income backgrounds. However, this statement is totally false (yours): > it’s a tax break that benefits the kids of upper middle class and wealthy families. Many graduate students, especially those in STEM fields (80 - 90%), are poor international students. Their families are already taking on generations of debt in order to give their children a mere chance to emigrate to this country. The schools don't want to/won't pay the higher stipends required to offset the tuition waiver taxes (for the minority of graduate students who get them), and they don't want to/won't give up the massive cash infusion coming from these students (who don't have waivers) already. Given the choice between the two, they'll choose the latter (the cash cow) and throw the former (the best and brightest) out with the bathwater, if you'll permit me to mix my metaphors. In the long run, this outcome will be bad for the schools, and bad for the businesses who hire these students once they graduate. Sources: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/12/new-report-shows-dependence-us-graduate-programs-foreign-students https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/12/new-report-sh... https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american...
  - rayiner 9y ago
    A vast majority of graduate students are not from low income backgrounds. Graduate students by definition already have a college degree, and statistically college graduates come from families that make substantially more than he average income.
    - munk-a 9y ago
      You're making a poor assumption however. The college graduates that go on to pursue a graduate degree are not randomly selected.
      - traek 9y ago
        What is the poor assumption that s/he is making?
        munk-a 9y ago
        Sorry to clarify, the poor assumption is that the fact that the people going to college being generally wealthier means that the people going to graduate school are generally wealthier. A uniform randomness would be required to determine which students choose to continue advancing which is not the case as those choosing to pursue a graduate degree are being influenced by other factors - how fast they need to begin acquiring income, how lucrative they think immediate employment may be, interests...
      - rayiner 9y ago
        Sure. But aren't they even more likely to be well-off? Are people who can afford to forgo getting a job for 4-5 years after getting their college degree more or less likely to be from a lower-income household?
        munk-a 9y ago
        I'm not certain, but to offer a counter argument, aren't the more wealthy students likely to be content to get a Bachelor's degree of an MBA and move into the workplace? Possibly using their connections to supplement their other qualifications?

rayiner 9y ago

Only a small minority of lower class people ever go to grad school. Overwhelmingly, it’s a tax break that benefits the kids of upper middle class and wealthy families.

deong 9y ago
I don't know that I'd say "overwhelmingly". I certainly wouldn't have been able to go to grad school under this system.
- txcwpalpha 9y ago
  Do you know what "overwhelmingly" means? Your anecdote about a single person (you) being able to or not being able to afford college doesn't mean anything. The other commenter's unsourced "overwhelmingly" claim is silly but so is yours.
  - deong 9y ago
    Think of my comment as two separate statements. First, "overwhelmingly" is silly. Second, and more or less unrelated, it would have personally affected me. The second wasn't intended as support for the first.
gervase 9y ago
This statement is true (yours): > Only a small minority of lower class people ever go to grad school. But so is this one (mine): > A vast majority of graduate students are from low-income backgrounds. However, this statement is totally false (yours): > it’s a tax break that benefits the kids of upper middle class and wealthy families. Many graduate students, especially those in STEM fields (80 - 90%), are poor international students. Their families are already taking on generations of debt in order to give their children a mere chance to emigrate to this country. The schools don't want to/won't pay the higher stipends required to offset the tuition waiver taxes (for the minority of graduate students who get them), and they don't want to/won't give up the massive cash infusion coming from these students (who don't have waivers) already. Given the choice between the two, they'll choose the latter (the cash cow) and throw the former (the best and brightest) out with the bathwater, if you'll permit me to mix my metaphors. In the long run, this outcome will be bad for the schools, and bad for the businesses who hire these students once they graduate. Sources: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/12/new-report-shows-dependence-us-graduate-programs-foreign-students https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/12/new-report-sh... https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign-students-and-graduate-stem-enrollment https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/10/11/foreign... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american-graduate-student-stem.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/education/edlife/american...
- rayiner 9y ago
  A vast majority of graduate students are not from low income backgrounds. Graduate students by definition already have a college degree, and statistically college graduates come from families that make substantially more than he average income.
  - munk-a 9y ago
    You're making a poor assumption however. The college graduates that go on to pursue a graduate degree are not randomly selected.
    - traek 9y ago
      What is the poor assumption that s/he is making?
      - munk-a 9y ago
        Sorry to clarify, the poor assumption is that the fact that the people going to college being generally wealthier means that the people going to graduate school are generally wealthier. A uniform randomness would be required to determine which students choose to continue advancing which is not the case as those choosing to pursue a graduate degree are being influenced by other factors - how fast they need to begin acquiring income, how lucrative they think immediate employment may be, interests...
    - rayiner 9y ago
      Sure. But aren't they even more likely to be well-off? Are people who can afford to forgo getting a job for 4-5 years after getting their college degree more or less likely to be from a lower-income household?
      - munk-a 9y ago
        I'm not certain, but to offer a counter argument, aren't the more wealthy students likely to be content to get a Bachelor's degree of an MBA and move into the workplace? Possibly using their connections to supplement their other qualifications?