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You mean the China that hacked the shit out of Nortel when I was a teenager to get global dominance of telecom? The China that's building artificial islands to

You mean the China that hacked the shit out of Nortel when I was a teenager to get global dominance of telecom? The China that's building artificial islands to get access to the South China Sea / East Sea? The China that tries to have trade both ways by forcing Hollywood to portray China positively just to get 50% of what they should at the Chinese box office? The China that quietly supported the DPRK, destabilizing global peace, to get an edge on their interests? The China that walls off their own internet completely then whines when politicians start to question their involvement in our (Canada's) newspapers and other media? The China that disallows foreigners to purchase their currency while stockpiling greenbacks and buying western tech companies? I don't think we should disengage from China, I think they're liberalizing (over the long haul anyway; rich, educated people figure out a way to get access to the truth) but don't for one second think that we should stop "whining" about China. If anything we should be more vocal in our responses.

radarsat1 9y ago
> The China that tries to have trade both ways by forcing Hollywood to portray China positively just to get 50% of what they should at the Chinese box office? What's this one about?
- stuffedBelly 9y ago
  that probably refers to the large amount of capital from China instilled into Hollywood over recent years.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- ajkjk 9y ago
  This kind of thing: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/did-you-catch-the-ways-hollywood-pandered-to-china-this-year https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/did-you-catch-t...
- guiltygatorade 9y ago
  Super layman's take: - China has a "ministry of culture" which decides what foreign media can enter the domestic market, especially to play on the big screen - Chinese domestic films enjoy what effectively is media protectionism - Hollywood obviously wants a piece of that giant market - What movies get approved/denied and for what reasons can get very arbitrary. So it comes down to a matter of trying to win favors of people deciding the approval process. - Often this means shooting big scenes in locations in China, or portraying China in a positive light, or starring Chinese characters, etc. This effectively translates to "you can help us look good globally and we allow you to make money in our market". I have no idea where the "get 50% what they should" came from, and I'm too lazy to look. But dealing with the Chinese government regulations is really just a quagmire of conflicts of interest. *Edit: formatting
- abrak 9y ago
  Chinese soft power. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/china-quest-for-soft-power-targeting-hollywood-culture-influence/8051980 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/china-quest-for-soft-p...
- poke111 9y ago
  For example, the remake of Red Dawn a few years ago was supposed to feature China invading the US. They changed in to North Korea under pressure. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237717/Red-Dawn-remake-swapped-Chinese-flags-insignia-North-Korean-ones-fear-losing-billion-dollar-box-office.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237717/Red-Dawn-rem...
- forapurpose 9y ago
  The Chinese government controls access to their lucrative movie market. There is no freedom of speech; people who displease them are punished with loss of access. Hollywood complies by making films that please the Chinese government censors. A quick search will find a NY Times article about the head of Disney going to China to apologize about a film about Tibet, and promising that such a thing would never happen again. IIRC, there are stories that Hollywood gives Chinese government censors prior review of films before they are finalized, and edits them as instructed/requested. When was the last time you saw a film critical of China? Showing China doing something bad? Complementary of the Dalai Lama?
bilbo0s 9y ago
I think you're falling into the common western trap of misunderstanding Chinese culture by projecting our cultural proclivities onto their civilization. The Chinese educated and wealthy, for the most part, already believe they have the truth. (I'm not faulting them, in the west our wealthy and educated believe we have the truth as well. That's just how things work.) And they don't come too much more wealthy or educated than Jack Ma.
- cdancette 9y ago
  For the wealth, you're right, but Jack Ma's education is not that impressive, he struggled in college and he has a bachelor in English. So you can find a lot of people more educated than he is.
- forapurpose 9y ago
  > I think you're falling into the common western trap of misunderstanding Chinese culture by projecting our cultural proclivities onto their civilization. This claim is becoming cliche and wasn't a strong argument to begin with. It's an easy escape, claiming that it's a subjective thing that others can't understand and shouldn't dare criticize, out of respect. It's also a way of diverting discussion with a counter-attack. In this case, I'm not even sure what it refers to. What parts of the GP are "Chinese culture" and what in the GP, specifically, is a 'projection' of "cultural proclivities". Culture isn't a fixed thing; it evolves and changes all the time. Otherwise, we could say that communism, capitalism and international trade are certainly not part of Chinese culture (they are imports from the West after the end of 2,000 years of imperial China in 1911); or that democracy and freedom are (Taiwan and Hong Kong).
shove 9y ago
You forgot vast environmental rape and slave “wages”
owebmaster 9y ago
> The China that's building artificial islands to get access to the South China Sea / East Sea? This claim would make more sense if first a marketing campaign removed "China" from the name of these seas from history. edit: some people are complaining that only the name is not enough for a country to build infraestructure around it. What is it different than for example US fourth fleet stationed close to Brazil and Argentine or any other american fleets? This fleet is enough to wage war against any or even all latin america countries. In face of current developments, I fully support China construction in that vital area for their economy. My country should answer the same way if you ask me.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  You know, people would get upset if California started building artificial islands to claim the Gulf of California, despite the name.
- jbooth 9y ago
  I'm sorry, are you saying that India should control the whole Indian ocean and the West Indies for good measure? Maybe some reservations in Arizona as well?
- XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
  The following are all potentially valid names for that body of water. South China Sea, West Philippine Sea, North Natuna Sea. There are more if you start to go outside of English such as "East sea" in Vietnamese. Proposals for new names include Indochina Sea and Asean Sea. South Sea might be viable. It'd be nice to see the name settle as "The sea that can not be named".
linkmotif 9y ago
Glad to see this up here. There's a ton of carefully crafted, targeted pro-China propaganda directed at the United States. Great effort should be exerted to identify this propaganda and remind ourselves and everyone else that China is: a repressive regime in which citizens lack basic freedoms that people in the free world take for granted on a daily basis.
- bllguo 9y ago
  I suspect your post and the GP are kneejerk reactions to the headline. It really isn't relevant, and is likely only upvoted because of popular anti-China sentiments. I don't disagree with your points but would rather not see any article mentioning China devolve into this kind of ranting.
  - linkmotif 9y ago
    Hey I didn't mean to rant. But yes you called it right, I couldn't read beyond the snippet since I am not a WJS subscriber. I will refrain in the future.
ksk 9y ago
You have made some tangentially valid points, but those comments have nothing to do with entrepreneurship in China, which is the context of the article. The title is in response to criticisms that US companies find it hard to setup shop in CHina. Jack claims that Chinese companies find it hard to be successful in the US market too. Anyway, I'm hoping you'll read the article :) Also, just a suggestion, but if you're a US citizen, don't be so quick to point fingers at other countries. If you want to divorce yourself from the actions of your government, you personally can claim to be on some sort of moral high ground, but when generalizing the morality of countries' domestic/foreign policy, nobody is a winner here.
- GuardianCaveman 9y ago
  The guy says in his comment he is Canadian so no anti-US moral high ground argument here.
- rrggrr 9y ago
  Except that it exceptionally difficult to start a company in China for foreign firms; and that difficulty - spanning decades - has provided China advantages it used for purposes well beyond leaving developing nation status. If you thought American hegemony was bad, stay tuned.
  - ksk 9y ago
    Yeah, it probably is very hard to start a company in China. I think his point is 'complaining won't get you anywhere'. Either you can ignore China, or simply deal with the reality of the current situation and figure out a solution. >has provided China advantages it used for purposes well beyond leaving developing nation status. Sounds like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_industry_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_industry_argument
  - sdm 9y ago
    I've gone through the process of starting a WFOE and I'm currently in the process of setting up a JV with a local partner in China. Yes, it takes longer than starting a company in Canada: about 6 months in China vs. about 2 business days in Canada. I would describe the process as more "tedious" than "difficult". But what is important is that it's not much more difficult than for a local to start a business in China. Any difficulties are due to China's large and annoying bureaucracy than anything nefarious. If you're doing business in China you will have to deal with bureaucracy. It's annoying and it sucks, but it also hits everyone, local and foreign, more or less equally these days (that wasn't so much the case 10 years ago).

radarsat1 9y ago

> The China that tries to have trade both ways by forcing Hollywood to portray China positively just to get 50% of what they should at the Chinese box office? What's this one about?

stuffedBelly 9y ago
that probably refers to the large amount of capital from China instilled into Hollywood over recent years.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
ajkjk 9y ago
This kind of thing: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/did-you-catch-the-ways-hollywood-pandered-to-china-this-year https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/08/did-you-catch-t...
guiltygatorade 9y ago
Super layman's take: - China has a "ministry of culture" which decides what foreign media can enter the domestic market, especially to play on the big screen - Chinese domestic films enjoy what effectively is media protectionism - Hollywood obviously wants a piece of that giant market - What movies get approved/denied and for what reasons can get very arbitrary. So it comes down to a matter of trying to win favors of people deciding the approval process. - Often this means shooting big scenes in locations in China, or portraying China in a positive light, or starring Chinese characters, etc. This effectively translates to "you can help us look good globally and we allow you to make money in our market". I have no idea where the "get 50% what they should" came from, and I'm too lazy to look. But dealing with the Chinese government regulations is really just a quagmire of conflicts of interest. *Edit: formatting
abrak 9y ago
Chinese soft power. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/china-quest-for-soft-power-targeting-hollywood-culture-influence/8051980 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-23/china-quest-for-soft-p...
poke111 9y ago
For example, the remake of Red Dawn a few years ago was supposed to feature China invading the US. They changed in to North Korea under pressure. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237717/Red-Dawn-remake-swapped-Chinese-flags-insignia-North-Korean-ones-fear-losing-billion-dollar-box-office.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237717/Red-Dawn-rem...
forapurpose 9y ago
The Chinese government controls access to their lucrative movie market. There is no freedom of speech; people who displease them are punished with loss of access. Hollywood complies by making films that please the Chinese government censors. A quick search will find a NY Times article about the head of Disney going to China to apologize about a film about Tibet, and promising that such a thing would never happen again. IIRC, there are stories that Hollywood gives Chinese government censors prior review of films before they are finalized, and edits them as instructed/requested. When was the last time you saw a film critical of China? Showing China doing something bad? Complementary of the Dalai Lama?

bilbo0s 9y ago

I think you're falling into the common western trap of misunderstanding Chinese culture by projecting our cultural proclivities onto their civilization. The Chinese educated and wealthy, for the most part, already believe they have the truth. (I'm not faulting them, in the west our wealthy and educated believe we have the truth as well. That's just how things work.) And they don't come too much more wealthy or educated than Jack Ma.

cdancette 9y ago
For the wealth, you're right, but Jack Ma's education is not that impressive, he struggled in college and he has a bachelor in English. So you can find a lot of people more educated than he is.
forapurpose 9y ago
> I think you're falling into the common western trap of misunderstanding Chinese culture by projecting our cultural proclivities onto their civilization. This claim is becoming cliche and wasn't a strong argument to begin with. It's an easy escape, claiming that it's a subjective thing that others can't understand and shouldn't dare criticize, out of respect. It's also a way of diverting discussion with a counter-attack. In this case, I'm not even sure what it refers to. What parts of the GP are "Chinese culture" and what in the GP, specifically, is a 'projection' of "cultural proclivities". Culture isn't a fixed thing; it evolves and changes all the time. Otherwise, we could say that communism, capitalism and international trade are certainly not part of Chinese culture (they are imports from the West after the end of 2,000 years of imperial China in 1911); or that democracy and freedom are (Taiwan and Hong Kong).

shove 9y ago

You forgot vast environmental rape and slave “wages”

owebmaster 9y ago

> The China that's building artificial islands to get access to the South China Sea / East Sea? This claim would make more sense if first a marketing campaign removed "China" from the name of these seas from history. edit: some people are complaining that only the name is not enough for a country to build infraestructure around it. What is it different than for example US fourth fleet stationed close to Brazil and Argentine or any other american fleets? This fleet is enough to wage war against any or even all latin america countries. In face of current developments, I fully support China construction in that vital area for their economy. My country should answer the same way if you ask me.

dragonwriter 9y ago
You know, people would get upset if California started building artificial islands to claim the Gulf of California, despite the name.
jbooth 9y ago
I'm sorry, are you saying that India should control the whole Indian ocean and the West Indies for good measure? Maybe some reservations in Arizona as well?
XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
The following are all potentially valid names for that body of water. South China Sea, West Philippine Sea, North Natuna Sea. There are more if you start to go outside of English such as "East sea" in Vietnamese. Proposals for new names include Indochina Sea and Asean Sea. South Sea might be viable. It'd be nice to see the name settle as "The sea that can not be named".

linkmotif 9y ago

Glad to see this up here. There's a ton of carefully crafted, targeted pro-China propaganda directed at the United States. Great effort should be exerted to identify this propaganda and remind ourselves and everyone else that China is: a repressive regime in which citizens lack basic freedoms that people in the free world take for granted on a daily basis.

bllguo 9y ago
I suspect your post and the GP are kneejerk reactions to the headline. It really isn't relevant, and is likely only upvoted because of popular anti-China sentiments. I don't disagree with your points but would rather not see any article mentioning China devolve into this kind of ranting.
- linkmotif 9y ago
  Hey I didn't mean to rant. But yes you called it right, I couldn't read beyond the snippet since I am not a WJS subscriber. I will refrain in the future.

ksk 9y ago

You have made some tangentially valid points, but those comments have nothing to do with entrepreneurship in China, which is the context of the article. The title is in response to criticisms that US companies find it hard to setup shop in CHina. Jack claims that Chinese companies find it hard to be successful in the US market too. Anyway, I'm hoping you'll read the article :) Also, just a suggestion, but if you're a US citizen, don't be so quick to point fingers at other countries. If you want to divorce yourself from the actions of your government, you personally can claim to be on some sort of moral high ground, but when generalizing the morality of countries' domestic/foreign policy, nobody is a winner here.

GuardianCaveman 9y ago
The guy says in his comment he is Canadian so no anti-US moral high ground argument here.
rrggrr 9y ago
Except that it exceptionally difficult to start a company in China for foreign firms; and that difficulty - spanning decades - has provided China advantages it used for purposes well beyond leaving developing nation status. If you thought American hegemony was bad, stay tuned.
- ksk 9y ago
  Yeah, it probably is very hard to start a company in China. I think his point is 'complaining won't get you anywhere'. Either you can ignore China, or simply deal with the reality of the current situation and figure out a solution. >has provided China advantages it used for purposes well beyond leaving developing nation status. Sounds like - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_industry_argument https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_industry_argument
- sdm 9y ago
  I've gone through the process of starting a WFOE and I'm currently in the process of setting up a JV with a local partner in China. Yes, it takes longer than starting a company in Canada: about 6 months in China vs. about 2 business days in Canada. I would describe the process as more "tedious" than "difficult". But what is important is that it's not much more difficult than for a local to start a business in China. Any difficulties are due to China's large and annoying bureaucracy than anything nefarious. If you're doing business in China you will have to deal with bureaucracy. It's annoying and it sucks, but it also hits everyone, local and foreign, more or less equally these days (that wasn't so much the case 10 years ago).