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I have one. Do I like the privacy aspect? No. But my wife breastfeeds our baby for 3 hours a day and she needs music and audiobooks that she can control without

I have one. Do I like the privacy aspect? No. But my wife breastfeeds our baby for 3 hours a day and she needs music and audiobooks that she can control without using her hands. It's a simple trade off. My privacy is worth something but not infinitely valuable.

amelius 9y ago
Since you are a geek (I suppose), can't you figure out a way for her to play audio without sending private information to Amazon? Anyway, pretty soon we'll have open source speech recognition, so I guess then you'll really have no excuses left.
- kodt 9y ago
  What private information is getting sent to Amazon apart from your musical interests in that case?
  - monochromatic 9y ago
    Everything that is ever said within earshot of the device, potentially.
    - kodt 9y ago
      "Potentially" but we can examine network activity and verify that it is not in fact sending data all the time.
      - thg 9y ago
        Until you get a (targeted) firmware update that allows for just that. Even if there is no malicious intent now, can you be absolutely certain that that won't change? That there aren't or won't be any hidden keywords that will trigger recording / transmitting in silent mode? If I were planning to use these devices for surveillance, I'd of course provide only the utility first while privacy-minded people are still skeptical and then turn on the surveillance gradually after these devices are deployed nearly everywhere, integrated into every-day life, and can't be (easily) removed anymore. [0] The current version might have a hardware kill switch for the microphone. Will the next batch too? The batch after that? How many people will actually go out of their way to toggle that switch to be certain it isn't listening instead of believing it isn't in good faith, or worse, not even thinking about whether it might? Perhaps these devices won't ever be used for mass surveillance, or perhaps this is the beginning of Telescreens as they're described in George Orwell's 1984. Both Amazon and Google make vast quantities of their income by excessively undermining privacy in favor of targeted advertising. I'd call it fairly naive to expect them to now build privacy-minded devices that have as much spying potential as the Echo and Dot have. [0]: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/04/alexa-car-ford-amazon-shop-search-home.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017...
        kodt 9y ago
        The parent comment suggested that these devices are already sending all of your conversations to Amazon. Which they are not. Of course the potential exists for devices to be compromised in the future, and that is something everyone should be aware of when putting one in your home. I have seen more than one comment suggesting that Amazon currently stores everything it hears in passing on their servers. I have seen no evidence to suggest that is the case. Informing people on the potential risks is fine, but spreading FUD is not.
        amelius 9y ago
        > Until you get a (targeted) firmware update that allows for just that. Wouldn't that apply to (mics in) smartphones as well?
        thg 9y ago
        Obviously it would, however phones run on battery power and having the microphone always-on would drain the battery fast, which users would most certainly notice and also care about (more recharging, phone becomes unusable due to empty battery a lot faster). Keeping the recent and current state of technology and where it is heading in mind, I think it's fair to say that consumers care a lot more about being able to use their phone than they care about that phone or the apps on the phone to collect data about them.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  That's also a tradeoff I'm not willing to make. I could easily build her a system that lets her play music and podcasts by voice. However it would take tens of hours. That's time I'm simply not willing to divert from other areas to avoid a microphone in my living room. If it was a camera in my bedroom the calculus might be different.
- mstolpm 9y ago
  > Anyway, pretty soon we'll have open source speech recognition, so I guess then you'll really have no excuses left. What changes with an open source implementation? Your home-build device can be compromised as well, it needs mics as well. So, you'll gain nothing. Are you questioning that Alexa/Echo works as advertised (waiting for a wake word) or are you not informed about how Alexa is supposed to work (out of the box, not compromised)?
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    You could have it physically separated from the Internet.
Angostura 9y ago
It’s pretty unusual not be be able to use your hands at all during breast feeding.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  She likes holding him instead of fiddling with a remote. Overall the privacy issue is just not at the bottom but not anywhere near the top of our priorities.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]

amelius 9y ago

Since you are a geek (I suppose), can't you figure out a way for her to play audio without sending private information to Amazon? Anyway, pretty soon we'll have open source speech recognition, so I guess then you'll really have no excuses left.

kodt 9y ago
What private information is getting sent to Amazon apart from your musical interests in that case?
- monochromatic 9y ago
  Everything that is ever said within earshot of the device, potentially.
  - kodt 9y ago
    "Potentially" but we can examine network activity and verify that it is not in fact sending data all the time.
    - thg 9y ago
      Until you get a (targeted) firmware update that allows for just that. Even if there is no malicious intent now, can you be absolutely certain that that won't change? That there aren't or won't be any hidden keywords that will trigger recording / transmitting in silent mode? If I were planning to use these devices for surveillance, I'd of course provide only the utility first while privacy-minded people are still skeptical and then turn on the surveillance gradually after these devices are deployed nearly everywhere, integrated into every-day life, and can't be (easily) removed anymore. [0] The current version might have a hardware kill switch for the microphone. Will the next batch too? The batch after that? How many people will actually go out of their way to toggle that switch to be certain it isn't listening instead of believing it isn't in good faith, or worse, not even thinking about whether it might? Perhaps these devices won't ever be used for mass surveillance, or perhaps this is the beginning of Telescreens as they're described in George Orwell's 1984. Both Amazon and Google make vast quantities of their income by excessively undermining privacy in favor of targeted advertising. I'd call it fairly naive to expect them to now build privacy-minded devices that have as much spying potential as the Echo and Dot have. [0]: https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/04/alexa-car-ford-amazon-shop-search-home.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017...
      - kodt 9y ago
        The parent comment suggested that these devices are already sending all of your conversations to Amazon. Which they are not. Of course the potential exists for devices to be compromised in the future, and that is something everyone should be aware of when putting one in your home. I have seen more than one comment suggesting that Amazon currently stores everything it hears in passing on their servers. I have seen no evidence to suggest that is the case. Informing people on the potential risks is fine, but spreading FUD is not.
      - amelius 9y ago
        > Until you get a (targeted) firmware update that allows for just that. Wouldn't that apply to (mics in) smartphones as well?
        thg 9y ago
        Obviously it would, however phones run on battery power and having the microphone always-on would drain the battery fast, which users would most certainly notice and also care about (more recharging, phone becomes unusable due to empty battery a lot faster). Keeping the recent and current state of technology and where it is heading in mind, I think it's fair to say that consumers care a lot more about being able to use their phone than they care about that phone or the apps on the phone to collect data about them.
ggg9990 9y ago
That's also a tradeoff I'm not willing to make. I could easily build her a system that lets her play music and podcasts by voice. However it would take tens of hours. That's time I'm simply not willing to divert from other areas to avoid a microphone in my living room. If it was a camera in my bedroom the calculus might be different.
mstolpm 9y ago
> Anyway, pretty soon we'll have open source speech recognition, so I guess then you'll really have no excuses left. What changes with an open source implementation? Your home-build device can be compromised as well, it needs mics as well. So, you'll gain nothing. Are you questioning that Alexa/Echo works as advertised (waiting for a wake word) or are you not informed about how Alexa is supposed to work (out of the box, not compromised)?
- TomMarius 9y ago
  You could have it physically separated from the Internet.

Angostura 9y ago

It’s pretty unusual not be be able to use your hands at all during breast feeding.

ggg9990 9y ago
She likes holding him instead of fiddling with a remote. Overall the privacy issue is just not at the bottom but not anywhere near the top of our priorities.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]