5 ms·

At least in the US, the IRS does negotiate with pretty much anyone who owes back taxes: https://www.irs.gov/payments/offer-in-compromise https://www.irs.gov/pay

by aroch 9y ago

At least in the US, the IRS does negotiate with pretty much anyone who owes back taxes: https://www.irs.gov/payments/offer-in-compromise https://www.irs.gov/payments/offer-in-compromise

maxxxxx 9y ago
Do they actually negotiate the amount of tax to pay? I know they will negotiate on payment terms.
- throwaway613834 9y ago
  > Do they actually negotiate the amount of tax to pay? I know they will negotiate on payment terms. Confused, did you click the link at all? It literally answers your question right there at the beginning: > An offer in compromise allows you to settle your tax debt for less than the full amount you owe. [...] We generally approve an offer in compromise when the amount offered represents the most we can expect to collect within a reasonable period of time.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    "We generally approve an offer in compromise when the amount offered represents the most we can expect to collect within a reasonable period of time." I read this and should have phrased more carefully. I think this applies to people who really can't pay whereas Apple just doesn't want to pay.
    - collyw 9y ago
      Exactly, Apple has loads of money, there is no reason they can't pay.
      - donarb 9y ago
        Doesn’t matter how much money they have. No corporation will pay more than they are legally required. Apple believes they paid the correct amount (as Ireland never complained).
      - valuearb 9y ago
        They paid exactly as much as Ireland agreed to have them pay. Those $200B in bank deposits was a huge windfall for the country of Ireland, why would they want to tax it at all?
    - gehwartzen 9y ago
      I think Apple can hire enough lawyers and accountants to drag their feet for the "within a reasonable period of time" portion to come into play regardless of ability to pay.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  Not based in the US, but due to general tax law complexities, tax authorities definitely negotiate over the specifics and interpretations of laws, as well as the amount payable (source: personal experience). Having a good lawyer from an established firm with an excellent name helps a lot as well. If you're small fish, don't be surprised if civil tax servants try to bullshit you on the law. Be willing to fight (and prove them wrong), or be eaten. On one particular case I'm aware of (friend of a friend), a seven figure tax sum was payable. They eventually settled everything for $25k because they weren't sure of their case.
kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Yes but pretty much none of the conditions or hardships that they are willing to compromise based on apply to Apple.
harry8 9y ago
James Brown negotiated his way into jail, I guess. The man who literally stopped riots couldn't negotiate with the IRS his way out of the slammer.
- koliber 9y ago
  The IRS does not treat people who willfully break the tax code lightly. This is called tax evasion. They treat situations of evasion differently than they treat differences in tax law interpretation. If you interpret the tax law differently from the IRS and there is an actual ambiguity (no sovereign citizen BS), if you do end up owing the tax you will still need to pay it, plus interest owed. If they prove that you evaded taxes, you need to pay the taxes, interest, and heavy penalties. There is also potential for jail. There are many lines that can be crossed and an accountant will help you navigate them. Tax avoidance is legal and encouraged. The IRS does not want you to pay taxes you do not owe. It may disagree with you at times, and there are avenues for resolving those disagreements. On the other hand, the IRS frowns down upon tax evasion and will hit hard.

by aroch 9y ago

At least in the US, the IRS does negotiate with pretty much anyone who owes back taxes: https://www.irs.gov/payments/offer-in-compromise https://www.irs.gov/payments/offer-in-compromise

maxxxxx 9y ago

Do they actually negotiate the amount of tax to pay? I know they will negotiate on payment terms.

throwaway613834 9y ago
> Do they actually negotiate the amount of tax to pay? I know they will negotiate on payment terms. Confused, did you click the link at all? It literally answers your question right there at the beginning: > An offer in compromise allows you to settle your tax debt for less than the full amount you owe. [...] We generally approve an offer in compromise when the amount offered represents the most we can expect to collect within a reasonable period of time.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  "We generally approve an offer in compromise when the amount offered represents the most we can expect to collect within a reasonable period of time." I read this and should have phrased more carefully. I think this applies to people who really can't pay whereas Apple just doesn't want to pay.
  - collyw 9y ago
    Exactly, Apple has loads of money, there is no reason they can't pay.
    - donarb 9y ago
      Doesn’t matter how much money they have. No corporation will pay more than they are legally required. Apple believes they paid the correct amount (as Ireland never complained).
    - valuearb 9y ago
      They paid exactly as much as Ireland agreed to have them pay. Those $200B in bank deposits was a huge windfall for the country of Ireland, why would they want to tax it at all?
  - gehwartzen 9y ago
    I think Apple can hire enough lawyers and accountants to drag their feet for the "within a reasonable period of time" portion to come into play regardless of ability to pay.
charlesdm 9y ago
Not based in the US, but due to general tax law complexities, tax authorities definitely negotiate over the specifics and interpretations of laws, as well as the amount payable (source: personal experience). Having a good lawyer from an established firm with an excellent name helps a lot as well. If you're small fish, don't be surprised if civil tax servants try to bullshit you on the law. Be willing to fight (and prove them wrong), or be eaten. On one particular case I'm aware of (friend of a friend), a seven figure tax sum was payable. They eventually settled everything for $25k because they weren't sure of their case.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago

Yes but pretty much none of the conditions or hardships that they are willing to compromise based on apply to Apple.

harry8 9y ago

James Brown negotiated his way into jail, I guess. The man who literally stopped riots couldn't negotiate with the IRS his way out of the slammer.

koliber 9y ago
The IRS does not treat people who willfully break the tax code lightly. This is called tax evasion. They treat situations of evasion differently than they treat differences in tax law interpretation. If you interpret the tax law differently from the IRS and there is an actual ambiguity (no sovereign citizen BS), if you do end up owing the tax you will still need to pay it, plus interest owed. If they prove that you evaded taxes, you need to pay the taxes, interest, and heavy penalties. There is also potential for jail. There are many lines that can be crossed and an accountant will help you navigate them. Tax avoidance is legal and encouraged. The IRS does not want you to pay taxes you do not owe. It may disagree with you at times, and there are avenues for resolving those disagreements. On the other hand, the IRS frowns down upon tax evasion and will hit hard.