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> ...but this country Every country. Every time this conversation happens, everyone acts like the US is the only country that was ever involved in the slave t

> ...but this country Every country. Every time this conversation happens, everyone acts like the US is the only country that was ever involved in the slave trade. Almost every nation, including majority-black nations, were guilty of this. Many of them are still engaging in it to this day (there are more slaves right now than there have ever been at any point in history, and relatively few of them are in the US). What's most exceptional about the US on this subject isn't that we have exploitation and slavery in our history, but that we fought a civil war (with more casualties than any other war in American history) in part to end slavery and that today we're further ahead of virtually every major nation on the planet in terms of race and gender equality.

jessaustin 9y ago
To be fair, the slave markets most in the news today only exist because USA killed Qaddafi after we made a deal to leave him alone once he gave up all his bad weapons. Yes, I know, he was a bad guy so the good guys (who the hell is that?) didn't have to be ethical toward him, by good old American cartoon-character standards. However, he wasn't selling thousands of migrants into slavery so that's something. Also, his continued existence after giving up his weapons had inspired others like DPRK to slow their nuclear roll. After we shoved a bayonet up his ass, they changed their minds...
- Armisael16 9y ago
  That really isn’t what’s happening here at all, in several ways. The slave markets are the result of economic migrants from farther south attempting to get to Europe. Libya is one of the easier crossing points, so they go there. The EU realized this and is paying a lot of people a lot of money to make sure that the migrants can’t cross the Mediterranean. If Qaddafi were still alive we would at best see exactly the same problem in a different country. Even really basic research into what’s happening there reveals this stuff. People just seem to assume that things are shitty because the West invaded, and don’t bother looking any deeper. Here’s one (of a great many potential) source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/africa/slave-market-libya-european-migrants.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/africa/slave-market...
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > To be fair, the slave markets most in the news today... I suppose the operative phrase in your post here is "in the news". It's not news or generally interesting (for whatever reason), but there is tons of slavery in no way related to Libya or Qaddafi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery
- Wohlf 9y ago
  Don't forget the UK and France are just as culpable if not more so with Libya.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    One supposes you refer to Bernard-Henri Levy, but in general UK and France don't visit the loo without asking USA permission. The war pigs found a useful idiot in BHL, but they don't return his calls anymore.
smudgymcscmudge 9y ago
It has never occurred to me that the USA fought a civil war to end slavery. I had only considered that we fought a civil war to keep slavery. I guess that’s just my southern born and raised pov. Thanks for giving me a more positive view of my country.
- irishcoffee 9y ago
  Reading your comment makes me curious how prevent this train of thought is for people in the south. Certainly not a dig towards you.
- DoreenMichele 9y ago
  Another thing to feel good about: The way the end of the US Civil War went down was remarkably enlightened and created a new template for putting conflicts to rest which is likely partly responsible for the fact that WW2 has not (yet?) fostered a WW3. Historically, people who surrendered paid war reparations to the winning side and it was generally pretty ugly. This is part of why General Lee was very reluctant to surrender. It was considered to be a fate worse than death. But there were only three conditions of his surrender at Appomattox. One of them was that the North would come in and help them rebuild. This was an unprecedented break with human history. It is rare for a nation to only have a single civil war. Typically, the end of one plants the bitter seeds of the next. Rinse and repeat. It is remarkable the US has only seen one. The end of WW1 also planted the bitter seeds of WW2. When WW2 ended, the US went in to both Germany and Japan and helped them rebuild. The world also created a number of institutions aimed at preventing another global conflict. These are mostly financial organizations, like The World Bank. It was widely recognized that the global depression was a major root cause of WW2. Some world leaders vowed "Never again" and did what they could to make that vow a commitment the world could bank on. Edit: FWIW, I was born and raised in Georgia, though daddy was a Hoosier and mom is a German immigrant, so no one ever saw me as "Southern" until I moved to the West Coast.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    In some ways it was probably too "enlightened". Far too little was done to help the newly freed slaves and far too much was done to coddle their former owners. The "forty acres and a mule" promise was abandoned almost immediately and the freed slaves received no compensation whatsoever for their years of work, leading directly to the astronomical poverty rates that persist to the present day. The right to vote for the former slaves lasted barely more than a decade before the southern states started to disenfranchise them. The first two black senators were elected within a decade of the end of the Civil War. The third wasn't elected until more than a century after it ended.
GiorgioG 9y ago
> Every time this conversation happens, everyone acts like the US is the only country that was ever involved in the slave trade. tldr; It's not my fault. If you don't like your circumstances, work hard to change them. -- Worse, caucasian americans are made to feel guilty about it, as if it were their fault (despite the fact that the perpetrators and the victims have long since been deceased.) Personally my family has only been in this country for 40-45 years. I'm sorry that slavery happened here, but it happened virtually everywhere, to all peoples (that doesn't make it right.) I grew up in a poor neighborhood (though my immediate family was middle-class.) I saw many white/african-american/hispanic folks who floundered, and some that worked their asses off, determined to succeed despite their current circumstances. It is frustrating that the race/slavery/discrimination card is used by the SJWs to provide a crutch to those who don't want to work hard towards a better lot in life. By saying this I'm opening myself up to a shitstorm of criticism because somehow the above statements must mean I'm either: A) a racist or B) that I "just I don't understand what it's like to be an african-american." To those folks I say this: Go talk to 1st generation immigrant from anywhere and you'll likely meet someone who's working his/her butt off to realize the american dream. It is a privilege to live in the USA, no matter your race or ethnicity. It truly is the land of opportunity. However, no one is going to just give you that pretty house on the hill with a white picket fence - and you're certainly not going to get it handed to you because you have a sense of entitlement because someone (severely) wronged your ancestors generations ago.

jessaustin 9y ago

To be fair, the slave markets most in the news today only exist because USA killed Qaddafi after we made a deal to leave him alone once he gave up all his bad weapons. Yes, I know, he was a bad guy so the good guys (who the hell is that?) didn't have to be ethical toward him, by good old American cartoon-character standards. However, he wasn't selling thousands of migrants into slavery so that's something. Also, his continued existence after giving up his weapons had inspired others like DPRK to slow their nuclear roll. After we shoved a bayonet up his ass, they changed their minds...

Armisael16 9y ago
That really isn’t what’s happening here at all, in several ways. The slave markets are the result of economic migrants from farther south attempting to get to Europe. Libya is one of the easier crossing points, so they go there. The EU realized this and is paying a lot of people a lot of money to make sure that the migrants can’t cross the Mediterranean. If Qaddafi were still alive we would at best see exactly the same problem in a different country. Even really basic research into what’s happening there reveals this stuff. People just seem to assume that things are shitty because the West invaded, and don’t bother looking any deeper. Here’s one (of a great many potential) source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/africa/slave-market-libya-european-migrants.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/africa/slave-market...
humanrebar 9y ago
> To be fair, the slave markets most in the news today... I suppose the operative phrase in your post here is "in the news". It's not news or generally interesting (for whatever reason), but there is tons of slavery in no way related to Libya or Qaddafi. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery
Wohlf 9y ago
Don't forget the UK and France are just as culpable if not more so with Libya.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  One supposes you refer to Bernard-Henri Levy, but in general UK and France don't visit the loo without asking USA permission. The war pigs found a useful idiot in BHL, but they don't return his calls anymore.

smudgymcscmudge 9y ago

It has never occurred to me that the USA fought a civil war to end slavery. I had only considered that we fought a civil war to keep slavery. I guess that’s just my southern born and raised pov. Thanks for giving me a more positive view of my country.

irishcoffee 9y ago
Reading your comment makes me curious how prevent this train of thought is for people in the south. Certainly not a dig towards you.
DoreenMichele 9y ago
Another thing to feel good about: The way the end of the US Civil War went down was remarkably enlightened and created a new template for putting conflicts to rest which is likely partly responsible for the fact that WW2 has not (yet?) fostered a WW3. Historically, people who surrendered paid war reparations to the winning side and it was generally pretty ugly. This is part of why General Lee was very reluctant to surrender. It was considered to be a fate worse than death. But there were only three conditions of his surrender at Appomattox. One of them was that the North would come in and help them rebuild. This was an unprecedented break with human history. It is rare for a nation to only have a single civil war. Typically, the end of one plants the bitter seeds of the next. Rinse and repeat. It is remarkable the US has only seen one. The end of WW1 also planted the bitter seeds of WW2. When WW2 ended, the US went in to both Germany and Japan and helped them rebuild. The world also created a number of institutions aimed at preventing another global conflict. These are mostly financial organizations, like The World Bank. It was widely recognized that the global depression was a major root cause of WW2. Some world leaders vowed "Never again" and did what they could to make that vow a commitment the world could bank on. Edit: FWIW, I was born and raised in Georgia, though daddy was a Hoosier and mom is a German immigrant, so no one ever saw me as "Southern" until I moved to the West Coast.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  In some ways it was probably too "enlightened". Far too little was done to help the newly freed slaves and far too much was done to coddle their former owners. The "forty acres and a mule" promise was abandoned almost immediately and the freed slaves received no compensation whatsoever for their years of work, leading directly to the astronomical poverty rates that persist to the present day. The right to vote for the former slaves lasted barely more than a decade before the southern states started to disenfranchise them. The first two black senators were elected within a decade of the end of the Civil War. The third wasn't elected until more than a century after it ended.

GiorgioG 9y ago

> Every time this conversation happens, everyone acts like the US is the only country that was ever involved in the slave trade. tldr; It's not my fault. If you don't like your circumstances, work hard to change them. -- Worse, caucasian americans are made to feel guilty about it, as if it were their fault (despite the fact that the perpetrators and the victims have long since been deceased.) Personally my family has only been in this country for 40-45 years. I'm sorry that slavery happened here, but it happened virtually everywhere, to all peoples (that doesn't make it right.) I grew up in a poor neighborhood (though my immediate family was middle-class.) I saw many white/african-american/hispanic folks who floundered, and some that worked their asses off, determined to succeed despite their current circumstances. It is frustrating that the race/slavery/discrimination card is used by the SJWs to provide a crutch to those who don't want to work hard towards a better lot in life. By saying this I'm opening myself up to a shitstorm of criticism because somehow the above statements must mean I'm either: A) a racist or B) that I "just I don't understand what it's like to be an african-american." To those folks I say this: Go talk to 1st generation immigrant from anywhere and you'll likely meet someone who's working his/her butt off to realize the american dream. It is a privilege to live in the USA, no matter your race or ethnicity. It truly is the land of opportunity. However, no one is going to just give you that pretty house on the hill with a white picket fence - and you're certainly not going to get it handed to you because you have a sense of entitlement because someone (severely) wronged your ancestors generations ago.