4 ms·

Not only did he plead guilty, he also stated that his conversations with the Russians were directed by Trump's transition officials. I think it's safe to say t

Not only did he plead guilty, he also stated that his conversations with the Russians were directed by Trump's transition officials. I think it's safe to say this is just the beginning of a very, very long winter for Trump.

braum 9y ago
Was it Trump or one of his staff? I've only seen it reported that it was directly Trump, which seems beyond stupid even for Trump. Would make more sense it was someone on the staff.
- Larrikin 9y ago
  It was reported yesterday that Trump himself was going around to Congressmen trying to get them to drop their investigations and we only have the special investigation because Trump directly pressured Comey. Its not exactly a stretch that Trump himself was directing someone in his closest inner circle
- adventured 9y ago
  That won't matter unless Flynn was directed to do something illegal. 'Having conversations with the Russians,' is not illegal. People should remember, Nixon wasn't brought down by Watergate. He was brought down by an attempt to cover it up. The way Trump can get impeached, is if he lies. Ordering Flynn to talk to the Russians (eg to see what they had on Clinton or similar), won't get Trump in anything even remotely close to enough trouble to get him impeached.
  - dboreham 9y ago
    Having conversations with the Russians before taking office is illegal, isn't it?
    - adventured 9y ago
      No, the Clinton camp also talked to the Russians in the lead-up to election day. Is it illegal to talk to the British or Israelis or Japanese before election day? I mean, comeon. It is not illegal to "talk to the Russians." Russians are not some special illegal class of humans. What matters is what actions were directed or not, etc. For example, did Trump knowingly instruct Flynn to break the law, can that be proven, did Trump have knowledge of something illegal going on (even if he didn't direct it), what was it, and so on and so forth.
      - dboreham 9y ago
        So... Are you saying this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act doesn't apply?
  - enraged_camel 9y ago
    >> 'Having conversations with the Russians,' is not illegal. It totally depends on the nature of those conversations.
    - adventured 9y ago
      Obviously. The point is, people seem to be commonly regarding the mere act of talking to the Russians as both proof of guilt and as being something inherently illegal. It's extremely far off base from a legal standpoint (that's the witch hunt aspect that has been present since Hillary lost, revenge lust, etc). There is a lot to prove yet, even if Trump did something illegal.
  - keyboardmonkey 9y ago
    "The way Trump can get impeached, is if he lies"... what about him insisting that there's no links to Russia, and there actually being direct links to Russia?... that kind of lie, or some other kind of lie?...
- dboreham 9y ago
  Beyond Stupid seems a distinct possibility though.
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  You're right, it was Trump (according to NBC's reporting of Flynn's prepared testimony).
sophont42 9y ago
Lying liars lie. His credibility is trashed, anything Flynn has to say is moot.
- m_ke 9y ago
  Just like Trump
electrograv 9y ago
> according to a confidant, is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria. Can someone clarify why this is bad (working with Russia to fight ISIS), to someone who is very out of the loop on the whole issue? Seriously, why is this bad for Trump? I understand Flynn is guilty of lying, and will likely see jail time for it, but that’s a separate issue. The above quote seems to describe what presidents are ordinarily supposed to do — work with other global powers to cooperate towards shared interests (like destroying ISIS).
- rhcom2 9y ago
  He is going to plead guilty to lying to the FBI about those meetings.
- bwat49 9y ago
  It's bad if it was quid pro quo for helping to get trump elected...
- lisper 9y ago
  Because it's illegal to negotiate with a foreign power before you take office. By doing so, you are undermining the sitting president. Richard Nixon did this with Viet Nam in 1968, though this was not proven until after he died. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-t...
  - electrograv 9y ago
    Thank you, the "before office" part seems to be the key here I was missing.
    - electrograv 9y ago
      Update: Well actually, it looks like that “before office” part was quite literally “fake news”. The request to contact Russia was, in fact, after the election and during the transition: https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321 https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321 I’m glad ABC formally retracted this “fake news”, but the fact that it existed at all is deeply disturbing and profoundly irresponsible and incompetent reporting from ABC and others.

braum 9y ago

Was it Trump or one of his staff? I've only seen it reported that it was directly Trump, which seems beyond stupid even for Trump. Would make more sense it was someone on the staff.

Larrikin 9y ago
It was reported yesterday that Trump himself was going around to Congressmen trying to get them to drop their investigations and we only have the special investigation because Trump directly pressured Comey. Its not exactly a stretch that Trump himself was directing someone in his closest inner circle
adventured 9y ago
That won't matter unless Flynn was directed to do something illegal. 'Having conversations with the Russians,' is not illegal. People should remember, Nixon wasn't brought down by Watergate. He was brought down by an attempt to cover it up. The way Trump can get impeached, is if he lies. Ordering Flynn to talk to the Russians (eg to see what they had on Clinton or similar), won't get Trump in anything even remotely close to enough trouble to get him impeached.
- dboreham 9y ago
  Having conversations with the Russians before taking office is illegal, isn't it?
  - adventured 9y ago
    No, the Clinton camp also talked to the Russians in the lead-up to election day. Is it illegal to talk to the British or Israelis or Japanese before election day? I mean, comeon. It is not illegal to "talk to the Russians." Russians are not some special illegal class of humans. What matters is what actions were directed or not, etc. For example, did Trump knowingly instruct Flynn to break the law, can that be proven, did Trump have knowledge of something illegal going on (even if he didn't direct it), what was it, and so on and so forth.
    - dboreham 9y ago
      So... Are you saying this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act doesn't apply?
- enraged_camel 9y ago
  >> 'Having conversations with the Russians,' is not illegal. It totally depends on the nature of those conversations.
  - adventured 9y ago
    Obviously. The point is, people seem to be commonly regarding the mere act of talking to the Russians as both proof of guilt and as being something inherently illegal. It's extremely far off base from a legal standpoint (that's the witch hunt aspect that has been present since Hillary lost, revenge lust, etc). There is a lot to prove yet, even if Trump did something illegal.
- keyboardmonkey 9y ago
  "The way Trump can get impeached, is if he lies"... what about him insisting that there's no links to Russia, and there actually being direct links to Russia?... that kind of lie, or some other kind of lie?...
dboreham 9y ago
Beyond Stupid seems a distinct possibility though.
enraged_camel 9y ago
You're right, it was Trump (according to NBC's reporting of Flynn's prepared testimony).

sophont42 9y ago

Lying liars lie. His credibility is trashed, anything Flynn has to say is moot.

m_ke 9y ago
Just like Trump

electrograv 9y ago

> according to a confidant, is prepared to testify that Donald Trump directed him to make contact with the Russians, initially as a way to work together to fight ISIS in Syria. Can someone clarify why this is bad (working with Russia to fight ISIS), to someone who is very out of the loop on the whole issue? Seriously, why is this bad for Trump? I understand Flynn is guilty of lying, and will likely see jail time for it, but that’s a separate issue. The above quote seems to describe what presidents are ordinarily supposed to do — work with other global powers to cooperate towards shared interests (like destroying ISIS).

rhcom2 9y ago
He is going to plead guilty to lying to the FBI about those meetings.
bwat49 9y ago
It's bad if it was quid pro quo for helping to get trump elected...
lisper 9y ago
Because it's illegal to negotiate with a foreign power before you take office. By doing so, you are undermining the sitting president. Richard Nixon did this with Viet Nam in 1968, though this was not proven until after he died. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-to-spoil-johnsons-vietnam-peace-talks-in-68-notes-show.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/02/us/politics/nixon-tried-t...
- electrograv 9y ago
  Thank you, the "before office" part seems to be the key here I was missing.
  - electrograv 9y ago
    Update: Well actually, it looks like that “before office” part was quite literally “fake news”. The request to contact Russia was, in fact, after the election and during the transition: https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321 https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/936805557029048321 I’m glad ABC formally retracted this “fake news”, but the fact that it existed at all is deeply disturbing and profoundly irresponsible and incompetent reporting from ABC and others.