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How a U.S. citizen was mistakenly targeted for deportation. He’s not alone
- sandworm101 9y agoThere are so many underlying issues here. Race. Politics. Police conduct. Private prisons. Even NSA-level surveillance (the obvious efforts to geolocation his phone prior to the arrest). Demonetization of felons. Just about everything that is wrong in the US landed on this guy. Everyone needs a lawyer. You don't have to pay them, but memorize their name/number for that day you find the world landing on your head.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago> Demonetization of felons Do you mean disenfranchisement?
- eatbitseveryday 9y agoProbably meant something akin to 'demon-ization'.
- aqme28 9y agoI think he means "demonization" but it's a really interesting typo.
- bradlys 9y agoThat makes a lot more sense. I was really confused and wondering if we had veered off into YouTube territory. Although, there is still an argument to be had about felons are monetized because private prisons make money off of it. Hmm...
- conanbatt 9y agoThe process of taking dollar-valued felons into the human sphere is truly demonizing.
- sandworm101 9y agoStupid work computer is always correcting my spelling without me noticing. Back at home now on a machine that actually works (linux).
- elihu 9y agoFelons have trouble getting jobs. Demonetization may have been the intended word.
- romwell 9y agoThat would assume felons were ever "monetized". I mean, plenty are (of the Wall Street kind), but we're far from demonetizing them.
- rosser 9y agoThe private prison system is, in many cases, state-sanctioned slavery. Prisoners are very definitely monetized — and not just by the $15/minute phone calls to their loved ones.
- artpepper2 9y agoPrivate prisons monetize prisoners, so releasing someone is demonetization. (I joke ... sort of.)
- goialoq 9y agoPrisoners are monetized via slave labor.
- twic 9y agoOr it could have been demonetization of florins.
- creaghpatr 9y ago>As a young teenager, Carrillo automatically became a U.S. citizen when his mother went through the naturalization process. As an adult, he had two serious run-ins with law enforcement: a 2007 conviction for carrying a concealed weapon and another in 2011 for sending sexually explicit material to a minor, according to law enforcement records reviewed by The Times. >In the second case, Carrillo was sentenced to 240 days in jail and three years’ probation, the records show. In theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information. Given that this was an outlier case, I'm guessing the city would withhold the verification because most times it would show illegal status. Of course, it would make sense if all the enforcement agencies had synchronized data, but that seems like a pipe dream for an organization like the US gov.
- couchand 9y agoCities are not responsible for naturalization.
- guelo 9y agoThat's not how criminal records or sanctuary cities work.
- Goronmon 9y agoIn theory ICE could check this out, but sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE, so my guess is they did not have immediate access to this information. Also I think Hilary's emails and Benghazi obviously played a factor here. And Obamacare. And gay marriage. And liberals.
- Aloha 9y agoYou forgot Uranium One, that one is clearly the most important at all.
- burkaman 9y ago> sanctuary city policy is to not cooperate with ICE I don't think that's true, unless you have an example. Usually sanctuary cities have policies like "don't hold illegal immigrants while you wait for ICE agents unless they've broken another law", "don't automatically notify ICE when an illegal immigrant is released from jail", etc. It doesn't mean "don't return their phone calls and never share information".
- dhruvrrp 9y agoShouldnt the government have a database for all the US passports it has issued? How does a problem like this happen to someone who has a passport?
- ShabbosGoy 9y agoI’m actually in favor of having a biometric system like Aadhar in the United States. We should be automating our border patrol, I cringe at how inefficient our government is. Why are we still using paper records and certificates? These government bureaucrats are literal parasites on our society.
- tekakistocracy 9y agoSo let's replace this "inefficient" human bureaucracy with the fine work of the top dollar private sector contractors that have spearheaded advanced biometrics programs like Theranos, run it as efficiently as healthcare.gov, with all this private data stored in a database as secure as that of Equifax.
- ShabbosGoy 9y agoLeeching off of the taxpayer is like a drug. And much like an addict, the government bureaucrat will fight to maintain their unearned privileges. Sad!
- guelo 9y agoWouldn't a private government contractor also fight to maintain their contracts?
- jacquesm 9y agoTheranos is not an 'advanced biometrics program'.
- bspn 9y agoBut even that is only as good as the infrastructure behind it. I landed at Dulles on an international flight one day and the entire immigration system was down so none of the self-service kiosks or agent terminals were working creating huge backlogs. In the end US passport holders were let through with a visual passport check while all others were SOL until the system came back online.
- innagadadavida 9y agoThe great britain deported a bunch of unwanted people to Australia back in the day. Instead of wasting tax payer money, more criminals should be deported out. May be to Puerto Rico or some other territory far away where labor is cheap.
- corpMaverick 9y agoWill you be ok with Puerto Rico deporting all of its criminals to your city ?
- roywiggins 9y agoIt was (is?) a thing that happens. http://www.philly.com/philly/news/special_packages/Puerto_Ricos_solution_to_heroin_crisis_one-way_tickets_to_Philly.html?mobi=true http://www.philly.com/philly/news/special_packages/Puerto_Ri...
- zaptheimpaler 9y agoPerfect, lets bring back public executions too? I think your opinions regarding those dirty criminals would change pretty quickly if you had been born less privileged or maybe had a friend/family member who got thrown in jail for dealing weed or lying on their taxes. Or if you lived in Puerto Rico.. but hey who cares what happens to everyone else right?
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Someone1234 9y agoI'm a naturalised citizen. I like to joke that I have more documenting showing my legal right to be in the US than my wife's grandmother. My wife's grandmother has a birth certificate but it is water damaged, illegible, and falling apart. Besides that she has no state ID (driver's license expired twenty years ago), and few other forms of identity. Americans seem quite dead set against a national ID scheme (and associated database). The problem with that is that we wind up with a de-facto one, SSNs and social security cards being your main proof of who you are and your legal status. Birth certificates are problematic because they've never been standardised, and have no real fraud mitigation mechanisms (e.g. watermarks). Certainly my daughter's US birth certificate would be trivial to duplicate. This is in no small part why I ordered my daughter a US passport even before it was needed. It is one of the best forms of ID and citizenship proof you can have, even if it expires you remain in the database indefinitely. It is also why I ordered myself a US passport-card, so I have proof of citizenship in my wallet at all times. ICE, interior immigration checkpoints, and other initiatives seem to be on the rise. Even legal immigrants and US citizens need to protect yourselves, particularly if you're more likely to be profiled due to race.
- john_teller02 9y agoWell here is the new reality . If you are a non white person i.e if you have brown , black , yellow , red or green skin - please carry your US passports all the time. Even then they might just deport you and say your passport is fake.. but hey nothing is perfect and like our honorable president says "Tough Luck!!" .. see you , sayonara.
- Aloha 9y agoThe bit about birth certificates isnt all true - mine is from California, its on intaglio paper, with watermarks, and embossing - that particular paper (a certified long form) would be hard to copy.
- justin66 9y agoI had one like that. Nowadays they issue replacements on much plainer paper that goes through a laser printer. It's notarized, but nothing about it would be difficult to counterfeit.
- Aloha 9y agoI'm wholly opposed to a national ID scheme, but a national ID scheme would prevent stuff like this. We currently have no national registry of who, or who isn't a citizen, and no verifiable way to tie identity to work status, or anything else. Stuff like this is part of the price we pay for freedom I suppose.
- walid 9y agoThis is one of the truly American stupid statements that mean nothing to the rest of the world.
- e0 9y ago> Stuff like this is part of the price we pay for freedom I suppose. That's really easy to say when you (and, honestly, I) are not the ones paying that price.
- socalnate1 9y ago"Stuff like this is part of the price we pay for freedom I suppose." What an odd conclusion to draw from this. Do countries with national ID's not have freedom?
- Aloha 9y agoThey seem to have less freedom overall, theoretically - in any case, the American psyche has a well ingrained fear of big government, we fought a war over it, more or less - a war that we in part continue to fight amongst ourselves.
- blacksmith_tb 9y agoWhich war was that - the revolutionary war? I would suggest that was more about establishing our own 'big government' than being governed by England...
- Aloha 9y agoOne can argue that the revolutionary war was about the power of government. See the 3rd thru 10th amendments, specifically the 3rd and 4th. The war was as much about the question of what the powers of government ought to be as anything else.
- rdtsc 9y agoHopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. > Carrillo said his son brought a passport and a certificate of citizenship the government issued Carrillo but that ICE officers refused to review the documents. Well that's just baffling. What exactly would they consider proof of citizenship if a passport and the certificate doesn't do it. What would it take? What if he didn't have a passport. Many people I know don't have one or have an expired one. Certainly not a requirement to have one. > The refusal by ICE officials to listen to Carrillo’s claims of citizenship appeared to violate an agency policy that requires officers to thoroughly and quickly investigate such claims It also violates decency and common sense as well, and veers into plain old brutality. Rant: One thing I don't understand is why don't people have national ID cards in US. Most countries I know of have them, here it is a complicated mess of drivers license, SSN, birth certificates, each states makes their own ID card thing for those that don't drive. Every single time elections come around there is talk of ID cards and supposed voter fraud for months afterwards, with everyone pointing fingers and insinuating things. Then there are cases like these. People's identities are stolen based on the stupid SSN number and a name, most of those are already on the black market somewhere already.
- losvedir 9y agoHopefully he gets some money out of this. Can't imagine being grabbed, held in a cell somewhere, and then told I had to be deported all of the sudden. From the article: > On Wednesday, attorneys for Carrillo announced a settlement deal in which the government will pay him $20,000 to resolve a civil lawsuit he filed over the arrest.
- rdtsc 9y agoSaw that. I wish he'd gotten more than that. $20k seems like a slap on the wrist to the agency.
- losvedir 9y agoFor being detained for 4 days, though? It seems reasonable to me for mistakenly arresting him. It doesn't excuse what sounds like unkind and rude behavior from the officers, though, which they shouldn't be doing even when really deporting someone.
- walid 9y agoThe reason for his detention is mentioned near the end of the article: "After several hours, Carrillo and another detainee were driven to a privately run immigration detention center in Adelanto, 85 miles outside Los Angeles in the Mojave Desert." Privately run centers don't get paid based on citizenship or not but on services rendered.
- CodeWriter23 9y agoI wonder if the $20K settlement is a contractual sanction against the vendor for making an identity error.
- godelski 9y agoJust to put things in perspective, a quick google search gives a number of 380k-442k detentions per year [1]. The article states 2,840 citizens identified for deportation since 2002 (or average ~190/yr)[^]. Giving us an error rate of ~0.046%, averaged over the 15 years. [^] were these people detained? Does it count in the data set? [1] http://www.endisolation.org/resources/immigration-detention/ http://www.endisolation.org/resources/immigration-detention/ (these numbers may be wrong, I haven't fact checked this site)
- rosser 9y agoAny is too many.
- dominotw 9y agoJust contrasting this to death sentence > estimate that if all death-sentenced defendants remained under sentence of death indefinitely at least 4.1% would be exonerated. [1] @_@ 1. http://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230.abstract http://www.pnas.org/content/111/20/7230.abstract
- godelski 9y agoWhile we should strive towards zero, perfection is for the gods. Till then, we just have to try and understand how far we have to go.