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>Some folks might be able to obtain or sell it anonymously... This is wrong. Anyone with access to the equipment to use it, can obtain it anonymously by mining

>Some folks might be able to obtain or sell it anonymously... This is wrong. Anyone with access to the equipment to use it, can obtain it anonymously by mining it. The fact that people choose convenience over security is not an inherent problem of cryptocurrencies.

EGreg 9y ago
But with Proof of Work arms race, your chances of hitting the lottery are very low now.
thousandautumns 9y ago
These days mining crypto is not a feasible option for the vast majority of people.
zbentley 9y ago
That promise is only satisfied if you can transact for real value with the anonymously-mined currency. Both mining and transacting are impossible (or at least very difficult) for many people/in many areas. Mining requires too much gear/power. Transacting for most goods with real value without de-anonymizing the currency (converting it to fiat and associating it with your name) is also extremely difficult without money laundering or access to a no-identification-required, crypto-to-physical-cash ATM-style conversion point.
- ravingraven 9y ago
  >Both mining and transacting are impossible (or at least very difficult) for many people/in many areas. This is just not correct. You can mine with the same equipment you use to transact (something with a CPU and memory and internet access). Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible. Your argument could be "anonymity is expensive". >Transacting for most goods with real value without de-anonymizing the currency [...] is also extremely difficult [...] That is a "how I give you what you bought" problem and not "how I pay you for what I have bought" problem, i.e. it is not solvable by changing payment technologies. If I pay you a dollar over paypal, paypal automatically knows who gave what to whom. If I pay you bitcoin, I would have to give out this information voluntarily (it does not come with the money).
  - shawabawa3 9y ago
    > You can mine with the same equipment you use to transact (something with a CPU and memory and internet access). Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible That depends on the definition of "possible". Most people wouldn't be able to mine a block within a million years, which i'd argue means it isn't possible
  - zbentley 9y ago
    > Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible. That's a fair point. Perhaps I should have said "impractical" or "cost-preventative" instead. > paypal automatically knows who gave what to whom. Correct, but my point was that the number of opportunities to directly pay someone bitcoin for a physical good are so limited as to make using it for what most people need a "currency" for impossible.
  - UncleMeat 9y ago
    You have to mine in a pool. A typical person in a developing nation isn't going to be able to mine alone and have any reasonable chance of ever mining a block. For most people, you are looking at a big fat zero coins mined on local machines without working with some centralization.

EGreg 9y ago

But with Proof of Work arms race, your chances of hitting the lottery are very low now.

thousandautumns 9y ago

These days mining crypto is not a feasible option for the vast majority of people.

zbentley 9y ago

That promise is only satisfied if you can transact for real value with the anonymously-mined currency. Both mining and transacting are impossible (or at least very difficult) for many people/in many areas. Mining requires too much gear/power. Transacting for most goods with real value without de-anonymizing the currency (converting it to fiat and associating it with your name) is also extremely difficult without money laundering or access to a no-identification-required, crypto-to-physical-cash ATM-style conversion point.

ravingraven 9y ago
>Both mining and transacting are impossible (or at least very difficult) for many people/in many areas. This is just not correct. You can mine with the same equipment you use to transact (something with a CPU and memory and internet access). Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible. Your argument could be "anonymity is expensive". >Transacting for most goods with real value without de-anonymizing the currency [...] is also extremely difficult [...] That is a "how I give you what you bought" problem and not "how I pay you for what I have bought" problem, i.e. it is not solvable by changing payment technologies. If I pay you a dollar over paypal, paypal automatically knows who gave what to whom. If I pay you bitcoin, I would have to give out this information voluntarily (it does not come with the money).
- shawabawa3 9y ago
  > You can mine with the same equipment you use to transact (something with a CPU and memory and internet access). Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible That depends on the definition of "possible". Most people wouldn't be able to mine a block within a million years, which i'd argue means it isn't possible
- zbentley 9y ago
  > Is it expensive to do so? Yes. But it is possible. That's a fair point. Perhaps I should have said "impractical" or "cost-preventative" instead. > paypal automatically knows who gave what to whom. Correct, but my point was that the number of opportunities to directly pay someone bitcoin for a physical good are so limited as to make using it for what most people need a "currency" for impossible.
- UncleMeat 9y ago
  You have to mine in a pool. A typical person in a developing nation isn't going to be able to mine alone and have any reasonable chance of ever mining a block. For most people, you are looking at a big fat zero coins mined on local machines without working with some centralization.