4 ms·

I had an interesting experience recently. I ordered a cheap $20 multimeter from Amazon (which was highly rated on EEVblog), which was shipped from China. Intere

I had an interesting experience recently. I ordered a cheap $20 multimeter from Amazon (which was highly rated on EEVblog), which was shipped from China. Interestingly, the Chinese seller shipped me a single little worthless plastic packet of heat-shrink remote control covers (which somewhat humorously I can imagine totally being a thing in Asia, heat-shrink-wrapping all the remotes in plastic, sort of like a couch in plastic). This was what the tracking number package was for, and so I immediately hit my bookmark to chat with an Amazon rep to report fraud. I went through all the motions, they refunded me the amount, I left a negative review. But then that night, I got an email from the seller saying "That was your free gift, the multimeter should be there soon" and indeed, the actual multimeter showed up the next day, albeit with another tracking number. The multimeter was definitely shipped from China the same as the garbage package (via epacket, the subsidized, dirt cheap, glacially slow shipping method), so the seller had to have shipped the stupid garbage package at around the same time as the actual product I ordered. Other reviews mentioned the exact same thing ("They sent me garbage, but I got the thing in another package"). I've spent time thinking about what kind of fraud they're committing, because it doesn't make sense to me why they would send the garbage package with the tracking number from my order -- which screams fraud -- but then also send me the actual thing I ordered. They're sending two packages to the same address, but it doesn't make sense why, since they're obviously not committing the most straightforward kind of fraud ("We shipped the item, you can see the tracking number", which incidentally, only works on eBay and not Amazon).

baybal2 9y ago
The truth is simple, many of Amazon sellers are double or even triple dropshippers. They ordered your package from another dropshipper, and sent you a parcel with a correct tracking number to fool Amazon into thinking that the parcel was already shipped.
- sowbug 9y ago
  That's a very interesting explanation! Maybe an extra twist to make it less confusing for the customer would be to include a small card in the first package saying "your package is on its way! Thanks for ordering!" Some people would still be annoyed, but it'd be the truth, and it would reduce most suspicion that you'd been sold a box of rocks.
ggm 9y ago
Well.. this story directly provides an answer (potentially) -they get an additional marginal ranking benefit inside some market appraisal score because they double their international successful completion count, for low marginal cost of posting negligible weight content to you successfully. The benefit to them is fraud, but not against you: its against the ranking engine inside some digital marketplace like alibaba. You are an unrelated third party who validates (by accepting) delivery. Since you don't know if the package is shrinkwrap "free gift" or the $20 meter, you accept. Are you willing to monty-hall reject the random package :-)
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  Why couldn't they just say that the purchase of a multimeter includes a free gift that will be shipped independently, and then ship the multimeter with the regular tracking and the free gift later using whatever economies of scale you are proposing?
  - fapjacks 9y ago
    Yeah this is what I'm wondering too.
- pyoung 9y ago
  So if I understand this right, they are creating a fake account on some other site (aliexpress, etc...) with his address attached. And then they ship the 'gift' from the Amazon tracking number, so that he is more likely to accept that package, and then ship the multimeter from the fake account tracking number, allowing them to leave themselves a positive review on that site. I always suspected something was going on with the aliexpress ratings. If you look at the reviews it is a lot of one liners like 'i got the item as described!' with a 5 star rating.
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    This is the most convoluted thing I've had to think through in awhile. Jeez. Honestly, I mostly ignore reviews on Chinese listing sites unless they're low. It's all about two things: 1. Is the price in line with other listings? From both directions? 2. How many people have ordered it in the past 90 days? Sometimes that does mean taking a risk with specialty items, or foregoing them. But hey, if it's a critical application I'm not going to source it from sketchy international cheap-o listings.
dahx4Eev 9y ago
It could be more cost effective when the packages are shipped separately. The seller can process the gift packages in batch. It's more flexible when they decide not to ship with a gift. And, there's a weight limit for sending a small parcel.
- kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
  Why couldn't they just say that the purchase of a multimeter includes a free gift that will be shipped independently, and then ship the multimeter with the regular tracking and the free gift later using whatever economies of scale you are proposing?
  - roel_v 9y ago
    Because that makes your marketing message confusing to the buyer. It seems to me that Asian sellers think it's highly valuable to include a 'free gift'. I've gotten many worthless 'free gifts' (in the same package as the order of the actual product (off AliExpress); so there's no advantage like described in the OP). So I conclude that this whole 'free gift' thing really works with their domestic customers, and many sellers are not sophisticated/specialized enough to realize that for Western buyers, they don't gain anything. Under that world view, a) there is no reason to include the 'separate shipping' thing; and b) adding it makes your ad copy look complicated, to the point of discouraging a sale. If you say 'free xxx with every purchase!', that looks like a good thing. But if you have to add qualifications to it (and I don't mean legally required fine print that you don't actually want customers to read, I mean something you want the customer to internalize), it becomes a bad thing that confuses your marketing message. Just my arm-chair speculation - I've wondered about this and similar issues numerous times over the last years though. So many things seem to illogical in that world, yet they must make someone somewhere money somehow.
always_good 9y ago
Plausibly deniable way to brush. Book two orders per customer that looks like an accident.
geomark 9y ago
Could it be that the dim weight of the combined order + free gift bumps up the shipping cost? Because I know that I have ordered items from China that have free shipping unless I have more than 4 or 5 items in the same order, then the shipping goes from free to an unattactive amount. Sellers have told me to instead place multiple orders for smaller quantity and then the shipping on each is free.
- khedoros1 9y ago
  That sounds like a way to give you an incentive to make more orders and boost their ratings.
pyoung 9y ago
Ha, yeah that is weird. Random thought: Maybe to help prevent package theft? It usually takes about a month for shipping, so I imagine a lot of people forget about their order. By sending the throw away package first, the recipient is 'primed' and is more likely to be on the lookout for the real thing, as opposed to letting it sit on their doorstep for a day or two where it can be stolen.
- arglebarnacle 9y ago
  Seems like it's having the opposite effect though--the throwaway is causing people to think they've been scammed and makes them no longer on the lookout for the real package.
- daveFNbuck 9y ago
  This only works if the first package isn't stolen.
dizzystar 9y ago
It's possible their multichannel logistics is easier to handle with a blanket policy. Amazon does penalize you for not shipping on time, but it's not quite the same as eBay. While eBay lowers your tank, Amazon closes your listing, and possibly your entire store.
Scoundreller 9y ago
> via epacket, the subsidized, dirt cheap, glacially slow shipping method ePacket is actually one of the faster postal service options from China
- fapjacks 9y ago
  I totally believe it. I don't ship anything from China specifically anything else but epacket, but I do know that elsewhere in southeast Asia, it's either DHL or eons of waiting.

baybal2 9y ago

The truth is simple, many of Amazon sellers are double or even triple dropshippers. They ordered your package from another dropshipper, and sent you a parcel with a correct tracking number to fool Amazon into thinking that the parcel was already shipped.

sowbug 9y ago
That's a very interesting explanation! Maybe an extra twist to make it less confusing for the customer would be to include a small card in the first package saying "your package is on its way! Thanks for ordering!" Some people would still be annoyed, but it'd be the truth, and it would reduce most suspicion that you'd been sold a box of rocks.

ggm 9y ago

Well.. this story directly provides an answer (potentially) -they get an additional marginal ranking benefit inside some market appraisal score because they double their international successful completion count, for low marginal cost of posting negligible weight content to you successfully. The benefit to them is fraud, but not against you: its against the ranking engine inside some digital marketplace like alibaba. You are an unrelated third party who validates (by accepting) delivery. Since you don't know if the package is shrinkwrap "free gift" or the $20 meter, you accept. Are you willing to monty-hall reject the random package :-)

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Why couldn't they just say that the purchase of a multimeter includes a free gift that will be shipped independently, and then ship the multimeter with the regular tracking and the free gift later using whatever economies of scale you are proposing?
- fapjacks 9y ago
  Yeah this is what I'm wondering too.
pyoung 9y ago
So if I understand this right, they are creating a fake account on some other site (aliexpress, etc...) with his address attached. And then they ship the 'gift' from the Amazon tracking number, so that he is more likely to accept that package, and then ship the multimeter from the fake account tracking number, allowing them to leave themselves a positive review on that site. I always suspected something was going on with the aliexpress ratings. If you look at the reviews it is a lot of one liners like 'i got the item as described!' with a 5 star rating.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  This is the most convoluted thing I've had to think through in awhile. Jeez. Honestly, I mostly ignore reviews on Chinese listing sites unless they're low. It's all about two things: 1. Is the price in line with other listings? From both directions? 2. How many people have ordered it in the past 90 days? Sometimes that does mean taking a risk with specialty items, or foregoing them. But hey, if it's a critical application I'm not going to source it from sketchy international cheap-o listings.

dahx4Eev 9y ago

It could be more cost effective when the packages are shipped separately. The seller can process the gift packages in batch. It's more flexible when they decide not to ship with a gift. And, there's a weight limit for sending a small parcel.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Why couldn't they just say that the purchase of a multimeter includes a free gift that will be shipped independently, and then ship the multimeter with the regular tracking and the free gift later using whatever economies of scale you are proposing?
- roel_v 9y ago
  Because that makes your marketing message confusing to the buyer. It seems to me that Asian sellers think it's highly valuable to include a 'free gift'. I've gotten many worthless 'free gifts' (in the same package as the order of the actual product (off AliExpress); so there's no advantage like described in the OP). So I conclude that this whole 'free gift' thing really works with their domestic customers, and many sellers are not sophisticated/specialized enough to realize that for Western buyers, they don't gain anything. Under that world view, a) there is no reason to include the 'separate shipping' thing; and b) adding it makes your ad copy look complicated, to the point of discouraging a sale. If you say 'free xxx with every purchase!', that looks like a good thing. But if you have to add qualifications to it (and I don't mean legally required fine print that you don't actually want customers to read, I mean something you want the customer to internalize), it becomes a bad thing that confuses your marketing message. Just my arm-chair speculation - I've wondered about this and similar issues numerous times over the last years though. So many things seem to illogical in that world, yet they must make someone somewhere money somehow.

always_good 9y ago

Plausibly deniable way to brush. Book two orders per customer that looks like an accident.

geomark 9y ago

Could it be that the dim weight of the combined order + free gift bumps up the shipping cost? Because I know that I have ordered items from China that have free shipping unless I have more than 4 or 5 items in the same order, then the shipping goes from free to an unattactive amount. Sellers have told me to instead place multiple orders for smaller quantity and then the shipping on each is free.

khedoros1 9y ago
That sounds like a way to give you an incentive to make more orders and boost their ratings.

pyoung 9y ago

Ha, yeah that is weird. Random thought: Maybe to help prevent package theft? It usually takes about a month for shipping, so I imagine a lot of people forget about their order. By sending the throw away package first, the recipient is 'primed' and is more likely to be on the lookout for the real thing, as opposed to letting it sit on their doorstep for a day or two where it can be stolen.

arglebarnacle 9y ago
Seems like it's having the opposite effect though--the throwaway is causing people to think they've been scammed and makes them no longer on the lookout for the real package.
daveFNbuck 9y ago
This only works if the first package isn't stolen.

dizzystar 9y ago

It's possible their multichannel logistics is easier to handle with a blanket policy. Amazon does penalize you for not shipping on time, but it's not quite the same as eBay. While eBay lowers your tank, Amazon closes your listing, and possibly your entire store.

Scoundreller 9y ago

> via epacket, the subsidized, dirt cheap, glacially slow shipping method ePacket is actually one of the faster postal service options from China

fapjacks 9y ago
I totally believe it. I don't ship anything from China specifically anything else but epacket, but I do know that elsewhere in southeast Asia, it's either DHL or eons of waiting.