8 ms·

21st Century, that anybody can argue against (in this thread or elsewhere) that going by bike to work is way better, healthier, more humanly fulfilling, than by

21st Century, that anybody can argue against (in this thread or elsewhere) that going by bike to work is way better, healthier, more humanly fulfilling, than by car leaves me speechless. Vote for mayors pro bike roads or ask for showers at work, there is always a solution.

whatusername 16y ago
Some of us live in cities where it rains pretty frequently. Today would be lovely on a bike. Yesterday in the rain - not so much.
- bitboxer 16y ago
  Muenster is one of the cities with the most raining days in germany. Still nearly everyone drives by bike. There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad choice in clothing :).
- harscoat 16y ago
  I understand, I just said "argue against", not "evbdy has to".
  - whatusername 16y ago
    I was arguing against the "better". For the record - I catch the train. But even when I lived close enough to ride - I caught the tram or train -- more protection from weather and much less sweat.
- gritzko 16y ago
  Netherlands is a really rainy country. Still, bikes are extremely popular, like the average is 2 bikes per person. The typical commute scheme is (1) bike to the station, then (2) train (trains are good, really good), then (3) another bike to work.
  - harscoat 16y ago
    To illustrate the "humanely fulfilling": while students in Rotterdam, we had to ride our bikes back 5km from a pub... it just started raining, but while biking the sky literaly fell on us. We arrived soaking wet, drenched. Among us, this remains one of our best memories.
    - sliverstorm 16y ago
      Funny how that works. I have had many many occasions of traveling while soaking wet for miles, and they always make great stories, and weren't all that bad. Now, on the other hand I've had times where it's just downright miserable, and I was pretty sure my fingers were on the verge of serious frostbite, and that was NOT fun and never will be. But, that's not too common.
      - jacquesm 16y ago
        The difference is probably mostly due to the windspeed, not due to the amount of water that fell on you.
        sliverstorm 16y ago
        Well, it was windspeed combined with enough water falling on me, but you're right- that's a given.
    - whatusername 16y ago
      I've had some amazing experiences getting drenched too. But I'm not sure that it would be that amazing on my way into work. (Likely carrying a laptop).
      - Mz 16y ago
        I live without a car in a rainy area. I've showed up at work a handful of times simply drenched. Not fun, but it actually happens a lot less than I thought it would. It doesn't bother me particularly in other situations, like on the way home from work or when going shopping. But, yeah, showing up at work drenched kind of sucks. Of course, as others have mentioned, how you dress matters so with planning this can be ameliorated if you travel by foot or bike regularly -- which seems to be an alien concept to folks who are very dependent on their cars.
- unwind 16y ago
  In Sweden (average 164 days/year with rain), there's a saying typically used by parents when their kids complain about the weather. It goes, translated very verbatim: "there is no bad weather, only bad clothes". It's far snappier in Swedish where it rhymes, but I guess the point comes across, still. Update: after reading a few more comments, I guess this doesn't address the other end of the spectrum, that it can be too warm/humid to go by bike. Score one for cultural bias.
  - aw3c2 16y ago
    Interesting, we have that saying in Germany too. At least amongst sailors from northern Germany. It does not rhyme though but is a direct translation. My wild guess would be that sailors brought it here from Sweden. Heh!
  - KoZeN 16y ago
    I remember watching Billy Connolly doing a stand-up show years ago where he went on a massive rant about people complaining about the weather. He rounded of his rant with the statement: "There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes." To this day I consider that quote to be one of my all-time favourites as it really helps me smile whilst most people are depressed over the fact that it's cold and wet.
    - arethuza 16y ago
      Presumably the "Where dae ye think ye are? Benidorm?" rant :-)
  - brazzy 16y ago
    I've always thought that it was a common saying in Britain, notorious for its bad weather. IIRC the world's rainiest place is some island off the coast of Scotland.
    - arethuza 16y ago
      No - not even close for total amount of precipitation. However, the Scottish Highlands do excel in miserable drizzle that falls continuously for days, weeks and probably months ("dreich"). And yes, I am Scottish and have spent a lot of time outdoors!
- arethuza 16y ago
  If you have a decent waterproof jacket, sensible shoes and maybe waterproof overtrousers for when it gets really wet then even walking in the pouring rain is fairly comfortable.
credo 16y ago
well, here is one argument that you may not have heard :) as per http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894 http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894 Republican gubernatorial candidate Dan Maes is warning voters that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper's policies, particularly his efforts to boost bike riding "could threaten our personal freedoms"
w00pla 16y ago
Especially the handicapped and elderly like bikes (or not). A good train system (such in Japan) is much better). That way even children and elderly can travel long distances.
sliverstorm 16y ago
I'm not going to say that we should all be in cars, but I used to ride my bicycle everywhere- I ride motorcycles now, and I still get a lot of the upsides- open to the environment, a physical activity (though more mild than biking at a hard pace), and my stress levels are lower. But it has one more huge upside; back when I bicycled all the time, I'd always arrive everywhere hot and sweaty. Workplaces can install showers, but what about the supermarket? The library? Classrooms? Your girlfriend's house? (which of course has showers, but back then her parents would NOT have approved) If you're going to build a city with all of those things a few blocks away, then it's an easy ride and no big deal, but that's a pretty major overhaul. I don't see it working in existing cities. Plus, besides problems with showers, the time commitment in existing cities is pretty big. I live rather close to my job, and it would still take me 1-2 hours to get there by bicycle. Once again, not that I love cars everywhere all the time, but it's a pretty darn big feat to switch to bicycles in many American cities. disclaimer: I do love my bikes, I'm kind of a petrol head.
- joss82 16y ago
  1-2 hours away by bicycle is not "rather close", it's downright far. Why not find a place where you can cycle to work in 10-15 minutes? I did it and it works great. It gives you lots of free time (short commute) and money (no car ownership). So much so that I started a freelance shop on the side.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Well, it's only 15-20 minutes by motorcycle, but I live in mountainous terrain and I'm not one of those crazy bicyclists who can maintain 20mph up a hill. If it was 15-20 minutes away because of stoplights and traffic it'd be bicyclable, but it's 15-20 minutes of highway through the hills. I can't exactly just pick any 'ol other job; I'm in school and that is extremely limiting. Also, if I suddenly had more money, I'd spend at least some of it on (motor)bikes because that's my hobby, so "you'll save money on transportation" doesn't work.
  - benJIman 16y ago
    15 mins ride is barely enough to get warmed up, you might as well run to get some exercise. 10-20 miles from work is a nice distance for cycling.
run4yourlives 16y ago
Better is the word I'm going to hit on in your comment. I'd love to bike to work. I've even considered it actually, this in spite of the following: - I live in Vancouver. It rains 5 months of the year. - I have a 30km commute, my car is faster (By a longshot, not by a few minutes). - My car does not require I have a shower after getting to work. - My car is more adaptable: I can carry extra work home, I can stop for a coffee, I can schedule a meeting in the morning or afternoon and then hit the office. There are many ways in which my car is "better". Healthier? No. More humanly fulfilling? Well, that depends. Is it more humanly fulfilling to spend the time commuting on my bike or with my kids? -
- BrandonM 16y ago
  I upvoted you, but I found myself wondering why you have a 30km commute. You mention that you would be more humanly fulfilled if you spent more time with your kids; why are you fine with wasting an hour commuting every day? I've been paying more attention lately to perceived requirements. So often we assume that we have to continue living or working where we currently are, and that we have to build our lives around that. The truth is contrary to that: almost everything in your life can be changed, and it's often much easier than you think.
  - run4yourlives 16y ago
    why you have a 30km commute. Because, if you understand Vancouver, you realize that if you want a house, and don't have millions, you need to live in the burbs. It's just too damn expensive here. That said, I see it as an issue to be corrected, however that takes time. Sorry, but I'm not raising a family of 4 in a condo, based on the experience of raising a family of 3 in a condo.
    - BrandonM 16y ago
      Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that you have it in your mind to correct the issue. Good luck!
    - jimbokun 16y ago
pragmatic 16y ago
Where do you live? Does it reach 95 degress F with almost 100% humidity in the summer and -50 degrees F in the winter? Does it ever snow 12 inches+ at a time? Is there every freezing rain followed by inches of snow covering it? My point is, what works in California doesn't work in Fargo or Minneapolis. Even driving a diesel automobile. They gel up bad. Same with electric cars, the temperature (hot and cold) kills batteries. If I lived in Santa Barbara, yeah, biking to work would be awesome.
- sedachv 16y ago
  Minneapolis not good for bikes? Tell that to Black Label.
- akgerber 16y ago
  Have you ever been to Minneapolis? Minneapolis has an incredible network of bikeways and is a place where bike commuting is very popular. Most folks don't do it all winter, but it's doable: http://www.civiacycles.com/whattowear/ http://www.civiacycles.com/whattowear/ And personal experience as a Milwaueean on my part says biking in the cold feels awesome. You get that great warm-on-the-inside, crisp-on-the-outside feeling. The downside is that it can be sketchy on ill-designed roads.
- syncsynchalt 16y ago
  Minneapolis? The #1 Bike City in the country? http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/1-bike-city-minneapolis http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/1-bike-city-m...

whatusername 16y ago

Some of us live in cities where it rains pretty frequently. Today would be lovely on a bike. Yesterday in the rain - not so much.

bitboxer 16y ago
Muenster is one of the cities with the most raining days in germany. Still nearly everyone drives by bike. There is no such thing as bad weather. Only bad choice in clothing :).
harscoat 16y ago
I understand, I just said "argue against", not "evbdy has to".
- whatusername 16y ago
  I was arguing against the "better". For the record - I catch the train. But even when I lived close enough to ride - I caught the tram or train -- more protection from weather and much less sweat.
gritzko 16y ago
Netherlands is a really rainy country. Still, bikes are extremely popular, like the average is 2 bikes per person. The typical commute scheme is (1) bike to the station, then (2) train (trains are good, really good), then (3) another bike to work.
- harscoat 16y ago
  To illustrate the "humanely fulfilling": while students in Rotterdam, we had to ride our bikes back 5km from a pub... it just started raining, but while biking the sky literaly fell on us. We arrived soaking wet, drenched. Among us, this remains one of our best memories.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    Funny how that works. I have had many many occasions of traveling while soaking wet for miles, and they always make great stories, and weren't all that bad. Now, on the other hand I've had times where it's just downright miserable, and I was pretty sure my fingers were on the verge of serious frostbite, and that was NOT fun and never will be. But, that's not too common.
    - jacquesm 16y ago
      The difference is probably mostly due to the windspeed, not due to the amount of water that fell on you.
      - sliverstorm 16y ago
        Well, it was windspeed combined with enough water falling on me, but you're right- that's a given.
  - whatusername 16y ago
    I've had some amazing experiences getting drenched too. But I'm not sure that it would be that amazing on my way into work. (Likely carrying a laptop).
    - Mz 16y ago
      I live without a car in a rainy area. I've showed up at work a handful of times simply drenched. Not fun, but it actually happens a lot less than I thought it would. It doesn't bother me particularly in other situations, like on the way home from work or when going shopping. But, yeah, showing up at work drenched kind of sucks. Of course, as others have mentioned, how you dress matters so with planning this can be ameliorated if you travel by foot or bike regularly -- which seems to be an alien concept to folks who are very dependent on their cars.
unwind 16y ago
In Sweden (average 164 days/year with rain), there's a saying typically used by parents when their kids complain about the weather. It goes, translated very verbatim: "there is no bad weather, only bad clothes". It's far snappier in Swedish where it rhymes, but I guess the point comes across, still. Update: after reading a few more comments, I guess this doesn't address the other end of the spectrum, that it can be too warm/humid to go by bike. Score one for cultural bias.
- aw3c2 16y ago
  Interesting, we have that saying in Germany too. At least amongst sailors from northern Germany. It does not rhyme though but is a direct translation. My wild guess would be that sailors brought it here from Sweden. Heh!
- KoZeN 16y ago
  I remember watching Billy Connolly doing a stand-up show years ago where he went on a massive rant about people complaining about the weather. He rounded of his rant with the statement: "There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes." To this day I consider that quote to be one of my all-time favourites as it really helps me smile whilst most people are depressed over the fact that it's cold and wet.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    Presumably the "Where dae ye think ye are? Benidorm?" rant :-)
- brazzy 16y ago
  I've always thought that it was a common saying in Britain, notorious for its bad weather. IIRC the world's rainiest place is some island off the coast of Scotland.
  - arethuza 16y ago
    No - not even close for total amount of precipitation. However, the Scottish Highlands do excel in miserable drizzle that falls continuously for days, weeks and probably months ("dreich"). And yes, I am Scottish and have spent a lot of time outdoors!
arethuza 16y ago
If you have a decent waterproof jacket, sensible shoes and maybe waterproof overtrousers for when it gets really wet then even walking in the pouring rain is fairly comfortable.

credo 16y ago

well, here is one argument that you may not have heard :) as per http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894 http://www.denverpost.com/election2010/ci_15673894 Republican gubernatorial candidate Dan Maes is warning voters that Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper's policies, particularly his efforts to boost bike riding "could threaten our personal freedoms"

w00pla 16y ago

Especially the handicapped and elderly like bikes (or not). A good train system (such in Japan) is much better). That way even children and elderly can travel long distances.

sliverstorm 16y ago

I'm not going to say that we should all be in cars, but I used to ride my bicycle everywhere- I ride motorcycles now, and I still get a lot of the upsides- open to the environment, a physical activity (though more mild than biking at a hard pace), and my stress levels are lower. But it has one more huge upside; back when I bicycled all the time, I'd always arrive everywhere hot and sweaty. Workplaces can install showers, but what about the supermarket? The library? Classrooms? Your girlfriend's house? (which of course has showers, but back then her parents would NOT have approved) If you're going to build a city with all of those things a few blocks away, then it's an easy ride and no big deal, but that's a pretty major overhaul. I don't see it working in existing cities. Plus, besides problems with showers, the time commitment in existing cities is pretty big. I live rather close to my job, and it would still take me 1-2 hours to get there by bicycle. Once again, not that I love cars everywhere all the time, but it's a pretty darn big feat to switch to bicycles in many American cities. disclaimer: I do love my bikes, I'm kind of a petrol head.

joss82 16y ago
1-2 hours away by bicycle is not "rather close", it's downright far. Why not find a place where you can cycle to work in 10-15 minutes? I did it and it works great. It gives you lots of free time (short commute) and money (no car ownership). So much so that I started a freelance shop on the side.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  Well, it's only 15-20 minutes by motorcycle, but I live in mountainous terrain and I'm not one of those crazy bicyclists who can maintain 20mph up a hill. If it was 15-20 minutes away because of stoplights and traffic it'd be bicyclable, but it's 15-20 minutes of highway through the hills. I can't exactly just pick any 'ol other job; I'm in school and that is extremely limiting. Also, if I suddenly had more money, I'd spend at least some of it on (motor)bikes because that's my hobby, so "you'll save money on transportation" doesn't work.
- benJIman 16y ago
  15 mins ride is barely enough to get warmed up, you might as well run to get some exercise. 10-20 miles from work is a nice distance for cycling.

run4yourlives 16y ago

Better is the word I'm going to hit on in your comment. I'd love to bike to work. I've even considered it actually, this in spite of the following: - I live in Vancouver. It rains 5 months of the year. - I have a 30km commute, my car is faster (By a longshot, not by a few minutes). - My car does not require I have a shower after getting to work. - My car is more adaptable: I can carry extra work home, I can stop for a coffee, I can schedule a meeting in the morning or afternoon and then hit the office. There are many ways in which my car is "better". Healthier? No. More humanly fulfilling? Well, that depends. Is it more humanly fulfilling to spend the time commuting on my bike or with my kids? -

BrandonM 16y ago
I upvoted you, but I found myself wondering why you have a 30km commute. You mention that you would be more humanly fulfilled if you spent more time with your kids; why are you fine with wasting an hour commuting every day? I've been paying more attention lately to perceived requirements. So often we assume that we have to continue living or working where we currently are, and that we have to build our lives around that. The truth is contrary to that: almost everything in your life can be changed, and it's often much easier than you think.
- run4yourlives 16y ago
  why you have a 30km commute. Because, if you understand Vancouver, you realize that if you want a house, and don't have millions, you need to live in the burbs. It's just too damn expensive here. That said, I see it as an issue to be corrected, however that takes time. Sorry, but I'm not raising a family of 4 in a condo, based on the experience of raising a family of 3 in a condo.
  - BrandonM 16y ago
    Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that you have it in your mind to correct the issue. Good luck!
  - jimbokun 16y ago

pragmatic 16y ago

Where do you live? Does it reach 95 degress F with almost 100% humidity in the summer and -50 degrees F in the winter? Does it ever snow 12 inches+ at a time? Is there every freezing rain followed by inches of snow covering it? My point is, what works in California doesn't work in Fargo or Minneapolis. Even driving a diesel automobile. They gel up bad. Same with electric cars, the temperature (hot and cold) kills batteries. If I lived in Santa Barbara, yeah, biking to work would be awesome.

sedachv 16y ago
Minneapolis not good for bikes? Tell that to Black Label.
akgerber 16y ago
Have you ever been to Minneapolis? Minneapolis has an incredible network of bikeways and is a place where bike commuting is very popular. Most folks don't do it all winter, but it's doable: http://www.civiacycles.com/whattowear/ http://www.civiacycles.com/whattowear/ And personal experience as a Milwaueean on my part says biking in the cold feels awesome. You get that great warm-on-the-inside, crisp-on-the-outside feeling. The downside is that it can be sketchy on ill-designed roads.
syncsynchalt 16y ago
Minneapolis? The #1 Bike City in the country? http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/1-bike-city-minneapolis http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured-stories/1-bike-city-m...