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You won’t have CPS called on you for letting your children wander and play in the neighbor. Please don’t spread nonsense. Edited with my response to everyone d

You won’t have CPS called on you for letting your children wander and play in the neighbor. Please don’t spread nonsense. Edited with my response to everyone depositing articles about the Meitivs: Nobody “called CPS on” the Meitivs. Somebody called the polic because they saw the children wandering around a parking garage (not a park like in many of the news stories. See [1].) The police officer then called CPS several times wondering what to do with children before finally driving over to CPS when they were dragging their heels[2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again.. https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again.... [2] Not that I think CPS is great. As a teacher, it’s basically impossible to get CPS to do anything unless the parents are abusing the children right in front of you on school property. Part of that is CPS being overworked and underfunded/understaffed. Part of that is that is it still usually better to keep the kids with their parents instead of foster care. And part of it is CPS not having the resources to have more options besides arrest parents or do nothing (like offering social services to the parents). Also I would argue there is a difference between letting your children play in the neighborhood outside your house and just leaving your children at the park for hours. I have had students who haven been abandoned at the park with their younger siblings.

vamin 9y ago
I know you're already getting a torrent of anecdotes right now, but I really think it's important not to sweep this under the rug. I have a co-worker who lives in a nice suburban neighborhood and had CPS called on him because his child was allowed to play in the park across the street from his house unsupervised. His child was interviewed by a social worker, his house was searched for drugs, the contents of his fridge were evaluated, and he had to go to court. In my state, it only takes one person to call, and once that person calls, an investigation is legally required, regardless of how spurious.
seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Depends on your neighbors and your neighborhood. Definitely not a universal, but it can fit an existential.
mankyd 9y ago
"The Maryland parents accused of child neglect for letting their children roam freely had to retrieve their children from Child Protective Services after they were removed from a park Sunday by police." http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/silver-spring/md-free-range-children-taken-by-cps/203337260 http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/silver-spring/md-free-range-...
dsp1234 9y ago
I'll just go let my best friend know that the several CPS inspections she had to endure last year when she left her kids at the park unattended were not real. Anyone can call CPS for just about anything, and having someone pick through your home and point out every little flaw, with the threat of taking your kids away is a real issue. Please don't downplay it, and don't downplay how shitty people can be to each other.
- shostack 9y ago
  I'm not very familiar with how CPS works and the law there--do you have any right to refuse unless they present some evidence that warrants such invasive next steps? Seems like a passive-aggressive parental version of Swatting someone.
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    Don’t know what it’s like on the “receiving end” but in my state when I notify CPS it’s a very, very involved process that usually takes at least an hour. You can do it by phone or internet form and both require extensive information about the child, parents, family members, address, etc. It’s definitely not something you can just do because you don’t like your neighbors and want them arrested in five minutes.
metalliqaz 9y ago
I agree with the spirit of your argument, but I am pretty sure that this actually has happened. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent...
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  Nobody “called CPS on” the Meitivs. Somebody called the polic because they saw the children wandering around a parking garage (not a park like in many of the news stories. See [1].) The police officer then called CPS several times wondering what to do with children before finally driving over to CPS when they were dragging their heels[2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again-in-spotlight-after-police-pick-up-kids-6-and-10/2015/04/13/30e2a2f4-e1f1-11e4-81ea-0649268f729e_story.html?utm_term=.a3cad281e4d3 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again... [2] Not that I think CPS is great. As a teacher, it’s basically impossible to get CPS to do anything unless the parents are abusing the children right in front of you on school property. Part of that is CPS being overworked and underfunded/understaffed. Part of that is that is it still usually better to keep the kids with their parents instead of foster care. And part of it is CPS not having the resources to have more options besides arrest parents or do nothing (like offering social services to the parents). Also I would argue there is a difference between letting your children play in the neighborhood outside your house and just leaving your children at the park for hours. I have had students who haven been abandoned at the park with their younger siblings.
  - mrkurt 9y ago
    I do think the lose-your-kids-to-CPS fear is a little overblown. But it's a little silly to say "they didn't call CPS, they called the police". The outcome is the same, and people almost always call the police instead of CPS directly.
    - Pulcinella 9y ago
      The original comment I was responding to specifically said “you can have CPS called on” you. Many people then pointed out the case of the Meitiv family even though nobody called CPS on them. Somebody called the police because they saw children playing in a parking garage unattended. Nobody called the police and said “the Meitiv’s children are playing in the neighborhood unattended.”
DoubleCribble 9y ago
A quick Googling says otherwise. Here's one of many. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-mom-for-letting-child-play-outside/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-m...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
jMyles 9y ago
This literally happened to me last week in Fresno, CA at @dmpayton's house. Fortunately, it's not possible to directly call CPS here; one needs to go through the police first. The police arrived and questioned me. I explained to them that I had no intention of changing my behavior and that I didn't want to answer any questions. They were polite and eventually left. But it was still bizarre. I don't understand why the response (to the caller) isn't, "M'am, there's no violation of the law in your description of this event. Please keep this line open in case of actual emergencies."
btilly 9y ago
Yes, you will. http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-yard-cps-t http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neighbor-calls-cops-child-services-texas-mom-letting-son-play-article-1.1943118 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neighbor-calls-cops... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/22/canadian-mom-investigated-for-letting-kids-play-al/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/22/canadian-mo... Do you have any more "corrections" to make?
- mod 9y ago
  That first one (the only one I read) is such a nightmare. Just wow. I live in the boonies and my kid gets to roam far and wide by himself. There's some risk involved, but it's never crossed my mind that I'm being negligent. I think it would be more negligent to keep him indoors--not that it could qualify as criminally negligent in any sane universe.
  - valuearb 9y ago
    When I was 6 years old my mom used to let me ride my bike all over town (a 5 mile jaunt) all day long. When I was 8, me and my friends used to walk 4 miles to school to play basketball, then spend rest of day playing in woods. Eventually when I was around 13 one of my friends lost an eye due to our experiments with explosives, but other than that we all survived. Maybe I should call CPS on my mom. What's the statute of limitations.
    - mod 9y ago
      I used to go to my friend's house when I was 8. It was through the woods, across the railroad tracks, and about 2 miles down a fairly busy residential road with no sidewalks. By 13 I went anywhere I wanted. Even on the city bus or whatever. Most of my life the rule was "be home by dinner" (6pm) Also I stayed home alone and watched my little sister after about age 11. I had a single father. My friends and I also played with explosives--we got into one buddy's father's black powder stash--but the only casualties were one guy's eyebrows. And his pride, once his mother noticed.
IncRnd 9y ago
It's unfortunate, but it happens regularly in today's world.
dougmccune 9y ago
Everyone is pointing out various news articles that show that people do indeed call CPS when you let your kids play by themselves at a playground. I won't dispute that it happens, but to me this is similar to how we view other low-probability events. If I let my kids walk to school or the playground by themselves there's also a chance they can get hit by a car crossing the street. I can teach them safety rules and arm them with the tools they need, but there's always that chance. If you were so inclined I'm sure you could find countless articles about unsupervised kids getting hit by cars (or whatever other horrible thing you wanted to dig up, child abduction, etc etc). And yet that's a low-probability risk that we readily accept for the trade-off of fostering a child's independence and not being held hostage by every small risk in this world. Some asshole calling CPS and causing serious annoyance and maybe even emotional trauma is a real risk, but I'd argue it's super low probability (lower than the risk cars on the street pose). So yes, it happens, but that doesn't mean we have to change our behavior. We just have to accept that risk just like we do thousands of others in the course of daily life.
- btilly 9y ago
  Many are sharing personal experiences as well. I have not had CPS called on me. But I do have friends who dealt with that. In fact I know more people whose had CPS called on them than I do people who have been in car accidents. So it doesn't seem to be a super low probability event. What also has me concerned is that my kids are heading towards puberty. Over 1/4 of all registered sex offenders committed their crime while minors. The single year of your life that you are most likely to become a registered sex offender is 14. It is massively more likely that they will have their lives destroyed that way than by an accident.
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    I would definitely not call car accidents a low probability event.
  - spitfire 9y ago
    What? Please explain how a minor can become a registered sex offender. I'm not American, sometimes America just confuses us foreigners.
ghurtado 9y ago
> You won’t have CPS called on you for letting your children wander and play in the neighbor. Please don’t spread nonsense. You're absolutely wrong and I know first hand of a couple of neighbors where exactly this has happened. Just because you haven't experienced it first hand it doesn't mean you have proof positive that it never occurs.
tomc1985 9y ago
Growing up I was allowed to roam the grounds of wherever we were freely unsupervised. As with many of us gen-Y'ers. In spending time with various women with kids I have noticed that parents nowadays are way more likely a) hover over their children (in a playground for example) so as to be no more than 10-20 feet away from them at all times b) eyeing any adults in the play area without a nearby child suspiciously c) Occasionally chastising or otherwise harassing parents that don't do this, in the same way that nosy people chastise others over their actions. Given the prevalence of stories and my own observations, I think you are wrong. I also think the quality of the institutions being talked about vary greatly depending on where you are. When I was in high school my friend had CPS called on her parents after a particularly nasty fight (her family was prone to loud fights) and it took them a couple weeks to convince CPS to get off their backs.
astura 9y ago
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste...

vamin 9y ago

I know you're already getting a torrent of anecdotes right now, but I really think it's important not to sweep this under the rug. I have a co-worker who lives in a nice suburban neighborhood and had CPS called on him because his child was allowed to play in the park across the street from his house unsupervised. His child was interviewed by a social worker, his house was searched for drugs, the contents of his fridge were evaluated, and he had to go to court. In my state, it only takes one person to call, and once that person calls, an investigation is legally required, regardless of how spurious.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Depends on your neighbors and your neighborhood. Definitely not a universal, but it can fit an existential.

mankyd 9y ago

"The Maryland parents accused of child neglect for letting their children roam freely had to retrieve their children from Child Protective Services after they were removed from a park Sunday by police." http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/silver-spring/md-free-range-children-taken-by-cps/203337260 http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/silver-spring/md-free-range-...

dsp1234 9y ago

I'll just go let my best friend know that the several CPS inspections she had to endure last year when she left her kids at the park unattended were not real. Anyone can call CPS for just about anything, and having someone pick through your home and point out every little flaw, with the threat of taking your kids away is a real issue. Please don't downplay it, and don't downplay how shitty people can be to each other.

shostack 9y ago
I'm not very familiar with how CPS works and the law there--do you have any right to refuse unless they present some evidence that warrants such invasive next steps? Seems like a passive-aggressive parental version of Swatting someone.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  Don’t know what it’s like on the “receiving end” but in my state when I notify CPS it’s a very, very involved process that usually takes at least an hour. You can do it by phone or internet form and both require extensive information about the child, parents, family members, address, etc. It’s definitely not something you can just do because you don’t like your neighbors and want them arrested in five minutes.

metalliqaz 9y ago

I agree with the spirit of your argument, but I am pretty sure that this actually has happened. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent...

Pulcinella 9y ago
Nobody “called CPS on” the Meitivs. Somebody called the polic because they saw the children wandering around a parking garage (not a park like in many of the news stories. See [1].) The police officer then called CPS several times wondering what to do with children before finally driving over to CPS when they were dragging their heels[2]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again-in-spotlight-after-police-pick-up-kids-6-and-10/2015/04/13/30e2a2f4-e1f1-11e4-81ea-0649268f729e_story.html?utm_term=.a3cad281e4d3 https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/free-range-family-again... [2] Not that I think CPS is great. As a teacher, it’s basically impossible to get CPS to do anything unless the parents are abusing the children right in front of you on school property. Part of that is CPS being overworked and underfunded/understaffed. Part of that is that is it still usually better to keep the kids with their parents instead of foster care. And part of it is CPS not having the resources to have more options besides arrest parents or do nothing (like offering social services to the parents). Also I would argue there is a difference between letting your children play in the neighborhood outside your house and just leaving your children at the park for hours. I have had students who haven been abandoned at the park with their younger siblings.
- mrkurt 9y ago
  I do think the lose-your-kids-to-CPS fear is a little overblown. But it's a little silly to say "they didn't call CPS, they called the police". The outcome is the same, and people almost always call the police instead of CPS directly.
  - Pulcinella 9y ago
    The original comment I was responding to specifically said “you can have CPS called on” you. Many people then pointed out the case of the Meitiv family even though nobody called CPS on them. Somebody called the police because they saw children playing in a parking garage unattended. Nobody called the police and said “the Meitiv’s children are playing in the neighborhood unattended.”

DoubleCribble 9y ago

A quick Googling says otherwise. Here's one of many. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-mom-for-letting-child-play-outside/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-m...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jMyles 9y ago

This literally happened to me last week in Fresno, CA at @dmpayton's house. Fortunately, it's not possible to directly call CPS here; one needs to go through the police first. The police arrived and questioned me. I explained to them that I had no intention of changing my behavior and that I didn't want to answer any questions. They were polite and eventually left. But it was still bizarre. I don't understand why the response (to the caller) isn't, "M'am, there's no violation of the law in your description of this event. Please keep this line open in case of actual emergencies."

btilly 9y ago

Yes, you will. http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-yard-cps-t http://reason.com/blog/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-... http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neighbor-calls-cops-child-services-texas-mom-letting-son-play-article-1.1943118 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/neighbor-calls-cops... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/22/canadian-mom-investigated-for-letting-kids-play-al/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/apr/22/canadian-mo... Do you have any more "corrections" to make?

mod 9y ago
That first one (the only one I read) is such a nightmare. Just wow. I live in the boonies and my kid gets to roam far and wide by himself. There's some risk involved, but it's never crossed my mind that I'm being negligent. I think it would be more negligent to keep him indoors--not that it could qualify as criminally negligent in any sane universe.
- valuearb 9y ago
  When I was 6 years old my mom used to let me ride my bike all over town (a 5 mile jaunt) all day long. When I was 8, me and my friends used to walk 4 miles to school to play basketball, then spend rest of day playing in woods. Eventually when I was around 13 one of my friends lost an eye due to our experiments with explosives, but other than that we all survived. Maybe I should call CPS on my mom. What's the statute of limitations.
  - mod 9y ago
    I used to go to my friend's house when I was 8. It was through the woods, across the railroad tracks, and about 2 miles down a fairly busy residential road with no sidewalks. By 13 I went anywhere I wanted. Even on the city bus or whatever. Most of my life the rule was "be home by dinner" (6pm) Also I stayed home alone and watched my little sister after about age 11. I had a single father. My friends and I also played with explosives--we got into one buddy's father's black powder stash--but the only casualties were one guy's eyebrows. And his pride, once his mother noticed.

IncRnd 9y ago

It's unfortunate, but it happens regularly in today's world.

dougmccune 9y ago

Everyone is pointing out various news articles that show that people do indeed call CPS when you let your kids play by themselves at a playground. I won't dispute that it happens, but to me this is similar to how we view other low-probability events. If I let my kids walk to school or the playground by themselves there's also a chance they can get hit by a car crossing the street. I can teach them safety rules and arm them with the tools they need, but there's always that chance. If you were so inclined I'm sure you could find countless articles about unsupervised kids getting hit by cars (or whatever other horrible thing you wanted to dig up, child abduction, etc etc). And yet that's a low-probability risk that we readily accept for the trade-off of fostering a child's independence and not being held hostage by every small risk in this world. Some asshole calling CPS and causing serious annoyance and maybe even emotional trauma is a real risk, but I'd argue it's super low probability (lower than the risk cars on the street pose). So yes, it happens, but that doesn't mean we have to change our behavior. We just have to accept that risk just like we do thousands of others in the course of daily life.

btilly 9y ago
Many are sharing personal experiences as well. I have not had CPS called on me. But I do have friends who dealt with that. In fact I know more people whose had CPS called on them than I do people who have been in car accidents. So it doesn't seem to be a super low probability event. What also has me concerned is that my kids are heading towards puberty. Over 1/4 of all registered sex offenders committed their crime while minors. The single year of your life that you are most likely to become a registered sex offender is 14. It is massively more likely that they will have their lives destroyed that way than by an accident.
- Pulcinella 9y ago
  I would definitely not call car accidents a low probability event.
- spitfire 9y ago
  What? Please explain how a minor can become a registered sex offender. I'm not American, sometimes America just confuses us foreigners.

ghurtado 9y ago

> You won’t have CPS called on you for letting your children wander and play in the neighbor. Please don’t spread nonsense. You're absolutely wrong and I know first hand of a couple of neighbors where exactly this has happened. Just because you haven't experienced it first hand it doesn't mean you have proof positive that it never occurs.

tomc1985 9y ago

Growing up I was allowed to roam the grounds of wherever we were freely unsupervised. As with many of us gen-Y'ers. In spending time with various women with kids I have noticed that parents nowadays are way more likely a) hover over their children (in a playground for example) so as to be no more than 10-20 feet away from them at all times b) eyeing any adults in the play area without a nearby child suspiciously c) Occasionally chastising or otherwise harassing parents that don't do this, in the same way that nosy people chastise others over their actions. Given the prevalence of stories and my own observations, I think you are wrong. I also think the quality of the institutions being talked about vary greatly depending on where you are. When I was in high school my friend had CPS called on her parents after a particularly nasty fight (her family was prone to loud fights) and it took them a couple weeks to convince CPS to get off their backs.

astura 9y ago

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste...