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I fully support the author, but bouncing around Netflix customer service/PR and writing a blog post trying to shame them isn't really achieving anything here. S

by paxy 9y ago

I fully support the author, but bouncing around Netflix customer service/PR and writing a blog post trying to shame them isn't really achieving anything here. Stuff like this happens all the time. Just get a lawyer to draft them a real letter and make a quick buck.

devereaux 9y ago
It is not a quick buck. I had some photos stolen before and commercially used in a magazine -- while I had a website, and had a side job as a photographer, and I was selling licenses to my pictures! It is a lot of hassle. I hated to deal with that. Imagine your github repository being copied, and the content being used in the next version of say the Google Pixel, with no attribution and no respect for your copyrights. Unless you enjoy suing people and making enemies, it is not fun. Unless you have a lawyer on a retainer, it is not a quick buck. Also, this is just when you "catch" the violators. How many times did I have my pictures used commercially without attribution? I don't know. It may be why I left this line of business.
- imhoguy 9y ago
  Just curious, what is your current line of business to overcome the issue?
  - devereaux 9y ago
    Solutions-based consulting, ie from a problem, to a solution. I take care of everything. This way, IP rights matter far less.
sundvor 9y ago
Why don't they deserve flak for being crap? I hate it when big corps can just bully their way. Lawyers charge arms and legs; my impression of the article is that the author was not in a position where getting a lawyer was just a "just" undertaking.
ozaark 9y ago
This is unfortunate for everyone involved. The author feeling misrepresented on a successful product display sucks. I imagine the person who generated the graphic for the box is being talked to as well. Often images have misrepresented copyright details on "open source" stock sites that can lead to this sort of thing. Hopefully the two parties can agree on a credit placement to help clear it up
- username223 9y ago
  > The author feeling misrepresented on a successful product display... Hopefully the two parties can agree on a credit placement Translated into human-speak: "Netflix used the author's photo without his permission. Netflix might pay him in the future."
rdiddly 9y ago
Yeah, get paid for your work! The classic talk "Fuck You, Pay Me" that shows up on HN every once in a while: https://vimeo.com/22053820 https://vimeo.com/22053820
hw 9y ago
Not everyone wants to 'make a quick buck'. It's a shame that one has to get a lawyer to draft a letter to get noticed when it comes to something like this. We're in the digital age. Email should work. Customer support should escalate and send an internal email or communicate to the appropriate person and/or dept (legal) as well, instead of just saying 'i cant (or dont want to) help you, please redirect here -> X'. This just shows how disconnected and teams are at a company. Oh and don't get me started about crappy autoresponder emails like that. "Stuff like this happens all the time" is not an excuse. Not when it comes to sexual harassment, and not when it comes to copyright infringement or about shoddy customer support.
- ggg9990 9y ago
  Even if one doesn't want to make a quick buck, making one is the best way to get companies to behave. If Netflix ends up paying $200K every few months with a negative PR hit for IP infringement they will improve their processes to avoid it. Lawyering up is a service to the entire ecosystem, not just to yourself.
  - hw 9y ago
    I totally get that that's how businesses are run now, and I'm sure that the OP would have to lawyer up and be prepared to spend time and $ regardless if he wants to pursue damages. My argument is that the OP should have at least received a response from the company or have his/her concerns moved to the appropriate dept by the CS team, instead of being patronized by an autoresponder.
    - ggg9990 9y ago
      It's not really a customer service issue. That team isn't equipped to handle it.
      - wpietri 9y ago
        They should be, though. I worked a university tech support line for a few years in college and we had a a whole set of redirections and escalations built up. It's best that people only call you for the right things, but once they are already on the line your only real choices are to help them get to the right person or tell them to fuck off. To the extent the company cares either about service or their brand, they'll pick the former.
johnpowell 9y ago
If this happens to me will you float me the cash for a lawyer?
wpietri 9y ago
Have you... ever actually done this? When a publication boosted some of my images, I sent them an email. They apologized and sent me a check for, I think, $500. My lawyer charges $350/hr. If I called him up asking him to send a demand letter for $500, he'd correctly tell me that a) it's worth me trying it first, and b) it might not be worth him doing it at all.
- pbhjpbhj 9y ago
  It's normal (in the West outside USA) to be redressed and awarded costs AFAICT. If you have to lawyer up to get your pay, then you should get paid in full and so should your lawyer. If not then the court should ensure it happens with punitive damages too.
  - wpietri 9y ago
    If you get paid, sure. But that's not a sure thing, and a full trial gets expensive. Would you gamble $10k for a possible net gain of $500? Even ignoring the cost of time and stress, you'd have to be more than 95% sure of winning for that to pay off over time. But a large company could well do that, because their gain is measured not just by the trial, but by the number of other people they scare off from suing at all.

by paxy 9y ago

devereaux 9y ago

It is not a quick buck. I had some photos stolen before and commercially used in a magazine -- while I had a website, and had a side job as a photographer, and I was selling licenses to my pictures! It is a lot of hassle. I hated to deal with that. Imagine your github repository being copied, and the content being used in the next version of say the Google Pixel, with no attribution and no respect for your copyrights. Unless you enjoy suing people and making enemies, it is not fun. Unless you have a lawyer on a retainer, it is not a quick buck. Also, this is just when you "catch" the violators. How many times did I have my pictures used commercially without attribution? I don't know. It may be why I left this line of business.

imhoguy 9y ago
Just curious, what is your current line of business to overcome the issue?
- devereaux 9y ago
  Solutions-based consulting, ie from a problem, to a solution. I take care of everything. This way, IP rights matter far less.

sundvor 9y ago

Why don't they deserve flak for being crap? I hate it when big corps can just bully their way. Lawyers charge arms and legs; my impression of the article is that the author was not in a position where getting a lawyer was just a "just" undertaking.

ozaark 9y ago

This is unfortunate for everyone involved. The author feeling misrepresented on a successful product display sucks. I imagine the person who generated the graphic for the box is being talked to as well. Often images have misrepresented copyright details on "open source" stock sites that can lead to this sort of thing. Hopefully the two parties can agree on a credit placement to help clear it up

username223 9y ago
> The author feeling misrepresented on a successful product display... Hopefully the two parties can agree on a credit placement Translated into human-speak: "Netflix used the author's photo without his permission. Netflix might pay him in the future."

rdiddly 9y ago

Yeah, get paid for your work! The classic talk "Fuck You, Pay Me" that shows up on HN every once in a while: https://vimeo.com/22053820 https://vimeo.com/22053820

hw 9y ago

Not everyone wants to 'make a quick buck'. It's a shame that one has to get a lawyer to draft a letter to get noticed when it comes to something like this. We're in the digital age. Email should work. Customer support should escalate and send an internal email or communicate to the appropriate person and/or dept (legal) as well, instead of just saying 'i cant (or dont want to) help you, please redirect here -> X'. This just shows how disconnected and teams are at a company. Oh and don't get me started about crappy autoresponder emails like that. "Stuff like this happens all the time" is not an excuse. Not when it comes to sexual harassment, and not when it comes to copyright infringement or about shoddy customer support.

ggg9990 9y ago
Even if one doesn't want to make a quick buck, making one is the best way to get companies to behave. If Netflix ends up paying $200K every few months with a negative PR hit for IP infringement they will improve their processes to avoid it. Lawyering up is a service to the entire ecosystem, not just to yourself.
- hw 9y ago
  I totally get that that's how businesses are run now, and I'm sure that the OP would have to lawyer up and be prepared to spend time and $ regardless if he wants to pursue damages. My argument is that the OP should have at least received a response from the company or have his/her concerns moved to the appropriate dept by the CS team, instead of being patronized by an autoresponder.
  - ggg9990 9y ago
    It's not really a customer service issue. That team isn't equipped to handle it.
    - wpietri 9y ago
      They should be, though. I worked a university tech support line for a few years in college and we had a a whole set of redirections and escalations built up. It's best that people only call you for the right things, but once they are already on the line your only real choices are to help them get to the right person or tell them to fuck off. To the extent the company cares either about service or their brand, they'll pick the former.

johnpowell 9y ago

If this happens to me will you float me the cash for a lawyer?

wpietri 9y ago

Have you... ever actually done this? When a publication boosted some of my images, I sent them an email. They apologized and sent me a check for, I think, $500. My lawyer charges $350/hr. If I called him up asking him to send a demand letter for $500, he'd correctly tell me that a) it's worth me trying it first, and b) it might not be worth him doing it at all.

pbhjpbhj 9y ago
It's normal (in the West outside USA) to be redressed and awarded costs AFAICT. If you have to lawyer up to get your pay, then you should get paid in full and so should your lawyer. If not then the court should ensure it happens with punitive damages too.
- wpietri 9y ago
  If you get paid, sure. But that's not a sure thing, and a full trial gets expensive. Would you gamble $10k for a possible net gain of $500? Even ignoring the cost of time and stress, you'd have to be more than 95% sure of winning for that to pay off over time. But a large company could well do that, because their gain is measured not just by the trial, but by the number of other people they scare off from suing at all.