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Disclaimer: Most of my cypto money are in bitcoins. My biggest problem with Bitcoin these days is the developers pushing Bitcoin to become 'store of value'.

Disclaimer: Most of my cypto money are in bitcoins. My biggest problem with Bitcoin these days is the developers pushing Bitcoin to become 'store of value'. Originally Bitcoin became popular because it simply let people transact over the internet quickly with low cost. This was what gave Bitcoin its utility, and thus value. Now that the Core team has decided that ease-of-use is not important, they are literally trying to hype Bitcoin as something intrinsically worthless except for people's perception of it. Bitcoin is now coasting on its reputation it accumulated in its first 5 years of life. So what makes Bitcoin _not_ a pyramid scheme? Other cyptocurrencies have their own uses- Litecoin - Buy stuff over internet cheaply and quickly Ethereum - ICO and contracts Ripple/Steem - Pseudo-decentralization allows for huge number of transactions. Monero/ZCash - Privacy Gold - People have liked shiny and non-degradable stuff since the stone age Stocks/Bonds - Dividend/Interests Tulips bulbs - Grow tulip flowers Bitcoin in 2017 - ??? Store of value The first 4 example cryptos actually have real world usage that could potentially justify their prices. What use does Bitcoin have right now? Every transaction costs >$1 and takes hours to process. What could Bitcoin do that other cryptocurrencies couldn't do better?

CameronBanga 9y ago
I think the biggest benefit though, is name recognition. When people think of crypto, they think Bitcoin. That's the biggest issues Litecoin and Ethereum have now.
- guardiangod 9y ago
  Exactly, that's why I mentioned that Bitcoin is coasting on its reputation. IMO a technology cannot survive with name recognition alone. Myspace vs Facebook comes to mind. Everyone knew Myspace, but they made no improvement and at the end, Facebook (via superior features) stole its lunch. I chose this example because both financial markets and Web 2.0 depends on network of scale to be efficient. At the same time, just because most people use your product today, doesn't mean they will remain to do so tomorrow. Constant improvement is the key, and Bitcoin is actually regressing in its utility.
- matwood 9y ago
  Yeah, most of my crypto is in ETH because I think it has value beyond the hype. BTC has the name recognition and thus has the 'dumb' money buying in like crazy. My thesis though is that long term crypto is useful and will be worth something. How much is hard to quantify right now.
tfmatt 9y ago
Litecoin is really the future. It is almost the exact same as Bitcoin (different hashing algorithm, more in supply, faster transactions) but the most important thing is it has crystal clear guidance on SegWit/POS/POW and how it is developed. It has probably one of the most influential people in all of crypto behind it (Charlie Lee) AND it is a fair coin, it was not premined. It has actually been used as a "testbed" for some of the SegWit Bitcoin testing if that gives you any indication of its stability.
- koonsolo 9y ago
  The only thing lacking is that it is not the Coca-Cola or Google or McDonalds. Bitcoin has the brand position in peoples heads. For most, cryptocurrency and Bitcoin are the same thing. You "google" it, you don't "search the web".
  - tfmatt 9y ago
    Agreed, cryptocurrency= Bitcoin in the public's mind. Perhaps that will change in the future
alehul 9y ago
You're right that Bitcoin is only a store of value (thanks for reminding me of that word, btw!). It could definitely be successful with that purpose, particularly for short-term storage or for those in physical danger. As a sibling comment mentioned, it could be a gold alternative. Bitcoin is much more volatile, however, and it already has a $160b market cap. The total value of all gold ever mined, from what I've found, is $1190b. Gold has gone up in value while Bitcoin has been rallying, which is a small but nonetheless existent indicator that people are not changing their store of value. Bitcoin will only be stable when most of those invested in it view it as that store of value, however even then it will be shaky compared to gold. Though it may receive commercial adoption due to its popularity, the slow transactions you mentioned really disable that. In conclusion: Thanks for the list of cryptocurrencies, as I'll certainly be looking into buying them rather than Bitcoin ;)
hackinthebochs 9y ago
>Originally Bitcoin became popular because it simply let people transact over the internet quickly with low cost. This was what gave Bitcoin its utility, and thus value. It is a severe misunderstanding to think a coins market cap is a reflection of its current utility. "Potential" drives valuations, and bitcoin has the greatest potential to be the currency of the future, despite its limited current utility. The fact that almost every alt-coin has cheaper/faster transactions, and yet are worth tiny fractions compared to bitcoin should clue you in. Bitcoin is still the most valuable because it has by far the most name recognition, and this name recognition will carry it to success down the road when things like the lightnight network are implemented and in widespread use.
- guardiangod 9y ago
  You are actually not disagreeing with what I said on most points, where we differ is the conclusion. First, no where I mentioned current market cap, let alone its link to utility. As an aside, Ethereum and Bitcoin Gold combined mkt cap are slightly half of Bitcoin's, so it's not tiny fractions by any measurement. As you said, one has to make the distinction between current utility and potential utility. You argued that Bitcoin is valuable because it has the most name recognition, and it has the biggest potential utility via Lightning Network. I actually typed up more on how Lightning Network in my previous post, but I deleted it because I don't want to stifle the conversation. But hear me out, other crypto currencies have implemented LN and are beginning to use it. Aside from the fact that it would only give BTC 1.7x transaction counts boost, what other features does LN bring to Bitcoin that other currencies can not achieve? Name recognition again. I haven't even gotten into how long it is taking the Core team to put in a functional LN into Bitcoin. By the time they are done, so would every other cyptocurrencies under the sun.
  - hackinthebochs 9y ago
    >First, no where I mentioned current market cap, let alone its link to utility The only substantive way to read "this was what gave Bitcoin its utility, and thus value" is through its connection to market cap. >other crypto currencies have implemented LN and are beginning to use it No one is near having a functional lightning network. Simply enabling segwit isn't enough. Furthermore, it isn't enough to just have the LN, but it needs to be in widespread usage for its full potential to be reached. Say some low usage alt-coin did enable a fully functional lightning network. It wouldn't matter because there are no scaling concerns for that coin to begin with. It would be functionally no different than doing a transaction with the bare network. The LN is a solution to the kinds of scaling problems only bitcoin is currently having (perhaps Ethereum as well). >Aside from the fact that it would only give BTC 1.7x transaction counts boost LN enables off-chain transactions and so would scale the effective transaction capacity orders of magnitude.

CameronBanga 9y ago

I think the biggest benefit though, is name recognition. When people think of crypto, they think Bitcoin. That's the biggest issues Litecoin and Ethereum have now.

guardiangod 9y ago
Exactly, that's why I mentioned that Bitcoin is coasting on its reputation. IMO a technology cannot survive with name recognition alone. Myspace vs Facebook comes to mind. Everyone knew Myspace, but they made no improvement and at the end, Facebook (via superior features) stole its lunch. I chose this example because both financial markets and Web 2.0 depends on network of scale to be efficient. At the same time, just because most people use your product today, doesn't mean they will remain to do so tomorrow. Constant improvement is the key, and Bitcoin is actually regressing in its utility.
matwood 9y ago
Yeah, most of my crypto is in ETH because I think it has value beyond the hype. BTC has the name recognition and thus has the 'dumb' money buying in like crazy. My thesis though is that long term crypto is useful and will be worth something. How much is hard to quantify right now.

tfmatt 9y ago

Litecoin is really the future. It is almost the exact same as Bitcoin (different hashing algorithm, more in supply, faster transactions) but the most important thing is it has crystal clear guidance on SegWit/POS/POW and how it is developed. It has probably one of the most influential people in all of crypto behind it (Charlie Lee) AND it is a fair coin, it was not premined. It has actually been used as a "testbed" for some of the SegWit Bitcoin testing if that gives you any indication of its stability.

koonsolo 9y ago
The only thing lacking is that it is not the Coca-Cola or Google or McDonalds. Bitcoin has the brand position in peoples heads. For most, cryptocurrency and Bitcoin are the same thing. You "google" it, you don't "search the web".
- tfmatt 9y ago
  Agreed, cryptocurrency= Bitcoin in the public's mind. Perhaps that will change in the future

alehul 9y ago

You're right that Bitcoin is only a store of value (thanks for reminding me of that word, btw!). It could definitely be successful with that purpose, particularly for short-term storage or for those in physical danger. As a sibling comment mentioned, it could be a gold alternative. Bitcoin is much more volatile, however, and it already has a $160b market cap. The total value of all gold ever mined, from what I've found, is $1190b. Gold has gone up in value while Bitcoin has been rallying, which is a small but nonetheless existent indicator that people are not changing their store of value. Bitcoin will only be stable when most of those invested in it view it as that store of value, however even then it will be shaky compared to gold. Though it may receive commercial adoption due to its popularity, the slow transactions you mentioned really disable that. In conclusion: Thanks for the list of cryptocurrencies, as I'll certainly be looking into buying them rather than Bitcoin ;)

hackinthebochs 9y ago

>Originally Bitcoin became popular because it simply let people transact over the internet quickly with low cost. This was what gave Bitcoin its utility, and thus value. It is a severe misunderstanding to think a coins market cap is a reflection of its current utility. "Potential" drives valuations, and bitcoin has the greatest potential to be the currency of the future, despite its limited current utility. The fact that almost every alt-coin has cheaper/faster transactions, and yet are worth tiny fractions compared to bitcoin should clue you in. Bitcoin is still the most valuable because it has by far the most name recognition, and this name recognition will carry it to success down the road when things like the lightnight network are implemented and in widespread use.

guardiangod 9y ago
You are actually not disagreeing with what I said on most points, where we differ is the conclusion. First, no where I mentioned current market cap, let alone its link to utility. As an aside, Ethereum and Bitcoin Gold combined mkt cap are slightly half of Bitcoin's, so it's not tiny fractions by any measurement. As you said, one has to make the distinction between current utility and potential utility. You argued that Bitcoin is valuable because it has the most name recognition, and it has the biggest potential utility via Lightning Network. I actually typed up more on how Lightning Network in my previous post, but I deleted it because I don't want to stifle the conversation. But hear me out, other crypto currencies have implemented LN and are beginning to use it. Aside from the fact that it would only give BTC 1.7x transaction counts boost, what other features does LN bring to Bitcoin that other currencies can not achieve? Name recognition again. I haven't even gotten into how long it is taking the Core team to put in a functional LN into Bitcoin. By the time they are done, so would every other cyptocurrencies under the sun.
- hackinthebochs 9y ago
  >First, no where I mentioned current market cap, let alone its link to utility The only substantive way to read "this was what gave Bitcoin its utility, and thus value" is through its connection to market cap. >other crypto currencies have implemented LN and are beginning to use it No one is near having a functional lightning network. Simply enabling segwit isn't enough. Furthermore, it isn't enough to just have the LN, but it needs to be in widespread usage for its full potential to be reached. Say some low usage alt-coin did enable a fully functional lightning network. It wouldn't matter because there are no scaling concerns for that coin to begin with. It would be functionally no different than doing a transaction with the bare network. The LN is a solution to the kinds of scaling problems only bitcoin is currently having (perhaps Ethereum as well). >Aside from the fact that it would only give BTC 1.7x transaction counts boost LN enables off-chain transactions and so would scale the effective transaction capacity orders of magnitude.