19 ms·
As a Brit now living in the US, I can't help but feel like the popularity of packaged sandwiches in the UK is largely driven by the fact that people in England
by matthewowen 9y ago
As a Brit now living in the US, I can't help but feel like the popularity of packaged sandwiches in the UK is largely driven by the fact that people in England are terrible at sandwiches.
A ham and cheese sandwich in the UK is usually a thin layer of ham, a thin layer of cheese, and some butter.
In the US, it's thick wodges of both, plus tomato and lettuce. It's just a more compelling option, and a small sad thing in a cardboard box pales in comparison.
- mrob 9y agoHomemade UK sandwiches are worse than that. In my experience, when most people say "butter" they mean margarine. Shop bought sandwiches are more likely to contain real butter.
- Shorel 9y agoOhh, that really sounds worse.
- PaulRobinson 9y agoAs an aside, they do not have margarine on them because there are no margarine brands on sale in the UK any more, and haven't been for nearly a decade: http://old.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10421&start=0&sid=c1e2eadc854c7d5f9401ea8e936ac6e8 http://old.qi.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10421&start=0&sid=c1e... You'll either find they don't need a spread at all like https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/253582556 https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/253582556 - anything which has mayo on it means they get away without it. The "Just Ham" sandwich from Tesco does though, indeed, have butter.
- switch007 9y agoThere are still many non 100% butter products. Here is Utterly Butterly's ingredients list: Vegetable Oils (Rapeseed, Palm), Water, Buttermilk (10%), Modified Maize Starch, Salt, Emulsifier - E471 Sunflower Lecithin, Preservative - Potassium Sorbate, Acid - Lactic Acid, Colours - Annatto, Curcumin, Flavouring I'm not sure what most pre-made sandwich retailers use. I would guess whatever was cheapest...
- PaulRobinson 9y agoThat would be a "spread", not a margarine. The difference is down to fat content.
- jhbadger 9y agoThat's just an arbitrary distinction to avoid calling things "margarine". Margarine had a bad reputation in the UK as something only poor people eat. In other places like the US it doesn't have this stigma and so people feel fine referring to it without euphemisms like "spread".
- PaulRobinson 9y agoIt's not just a semantic difference, it's normally a chemical one, and even in the US, very much a legal one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarine The EU has very strict definitions of this, and in the UK (for health reasons I expect), there is no market appetite for a spread that contains partially hydrogenated oils. In the US, regulations are much more lax and substances that are considered unfit for mass market consumption in Europe (typically for health concerns), such as trans fats, are widely available in the US. You can dress this up as a "stigma" or a "euphemism", but I call it reasonable consumer protection law.
- mrob 9y agoPartially hydrogenated oils or trans fats are not required for a spread to be legally considered margarine. It's possible to make margarine without them. See https://alphaalgae.wikispaces.com/file/view/trans+fat+reduction.pdf https://alphaalgae.wikispaces.com/file/view/trans+fat+reduct... The labeling requirement is theoretically protecting consumers from being ripped off by paying for water when they were expecting fat, but the manufacturers have convinced consumers this is actually a good thing ("reduced fat"). The real reason all spreads in the UK now have <80% fat is most likely cost reduction.
- 9y ago
- justincormack 9y agoWell, the main issue is the terrible bread. US sandwiches have too much stuff in though.
- Nursie 9y agoBlasphemy!
- SllX 9y agoSome US sandwiches, sure, but not really. A quarter pound of meat is a decent serving for a sandwich, and load that up with veggies and only put at most, two sauces, and only on one side (the top side preferably so the lettuce will be pressed against it. If you include cheese, two slices is enough most of the time. Where you run into trouble is once you start loading it up with like 2 or 3 different meats plus bacon and slathering cheese on like there's no tomorrow, and then including loads of mayo and mayo-based sauces and toasting it with butter and so on and so forth. If you go into a sandwich shop and this describes half their sandwiches, it's because that is what their customers are looking for, but you can absolutely get a proper sandwich by asking. A decent sandwich consisting of meat, some fat (either avocado or cheese, you don't need both unless you're making an avocado and cheese sandwich without any meat), and some good quality veggies on sliced bread, not rolls, is still going to come out pretty big, but it will fill you up and get you through the afternoon. More importantly, a good 50% of the overall thickness will be from the vegetables if you make it right. If you buy loafs, buy oval-shaped loafs as well, the outer parts can be used as toast and the inside will make solid sandwich bread.
- balabaster 9y agoA quarter pound of meat in a sandwich is far too much for a normal sandwich. We're not talking about burgers here, we're talking about regular sandwiches. You really don't need that much meat - unless it's roasted/carved chicken/turkey and that's really the exception. I totally agree that you should have at least half of the sandwich thickness be veggies... and no skimping on the mayo and salt & pepper. This is where most sandwiches fall off the wagon.
- Nursie 9y agoI agree very much - the US does this way better. Even in the chain restaurants and bars, a sammich in the US is a feast compared to most in the uk.
- stevekemp 9y agoMaking food "bigger" doesn't necessarily make it better. Once I'd visited America a couple of times, and saw the serving-sizes which are offered it suddenly became obvious why obesity is such a big problem.
- Nursie 9y agoNo it doesn't, however a decent few slices of meat make for a far better sandwich than what we get here in many places - a mere sliver.
- secfirstmd 9y agoSame. In Ireland we have loads of places to get sandwiches freshly made. When I moved to London I was shocked by the lack of options. Greggs etc - what a pile of horrible crap
- foldr 9y agoHuh? London is swarming with Pret a Mangers, and Greggs doesn't have much of a presence here. While there is nothing particularly special about a Pret a Manger sandwich, it is made on the same day that you buy it.
- gaius 9y agoThere are a ton of delis in London that will make you any sandwich you want... Someone who doesn't know that is just a tourist
- foldr 9y agoIn the city as a whole, sure, but I'm not usually willing to travel very far to get a sandwich.
- OJFord 9y agoTravel where? Don't seek a chain (Greggs?!) - you'll be disappointed, just look up.
- foldr 9y agoI mean walk more than a few blocks from my current location, wherever that is. I'm not sure what you mean by "just look up".
- TimTheTinker 9y agoReminds me of "Look Up More", a stunt by Improv Everywhere from years ago: https://youtu.be/RSBXS1npqNI https://youtu.be/RSBXS1npqNI
- cjsuk 9y agoDecent home made sandwiches is an art that isn’t common in the UK for certain. However they limp simple things have two characteristics that the others don’t have: they will taste no worse after four hours banging around on public transport and they are extremely cheap. To keep yourself in a healthy supply of good sandwiches with variety means that you have to purchase a large variety of expensive things in and expend a lot of time. Time and money are lacking. Ergo the prepackaged ones are a good trade off especially under the “meal deal” banner. Plus you can now waltz in and out of a supermarket without talking to a single soul here and sit there on your own at lunch being miserable, another British pastime which I throughly enjoy :)
- osrec 9y agoYou use such a cheery tone to describe your misery! How typically British!
- eru 9y agoThe "meal deal" was always confusing to me. Specifically I refer to the customary inclusion of crisps in the meal. This doesn't compute for a German. > Plus you can now waltz in and out of a supermarket without talking to a single soul here and sit there on your own at lunch being miserable, another British pastime which I throughly enjoy :) But, do you still get to queue? And who do you complain to about the weather?
- cjsuk 9y agoI’d rather have a German breakfast for lunch but that’s impossible here. I have some German blood, from Essen, which is a town of great eaters apparently. Doritos it is instead. Although I’ve taken to getting popcorn with my lunch now. It’s actually quite nice! Of course I queue, silently and obediently, while posting about how cold it is on the messaging app of the hour :)
- balabaster 9y agoI'm a Brit living in Canada and I concur, in general the British are terrible at sandwiches. However, I would say that outside of Subway and arguably Mr. Sub, North Americans aren't a whole world better at making them. I'm a firm believer that if you ain't putting any love into making the sandwich, it's not worth eating. The only exception where you need simple is butter and salt and vinegar crisps. Everything else requires lettuce, tomato and cucumber, salt and pepper and depending on the meat a proper condiment for that meat - Ham & Mustard; Turkey & Cranberry Sauce; Chicken & Mayonnaise; Beef & Horseradish Sauce.
- mc32 9y agoItalian delis run by Italians often have very good and tasty sandwiches some are Americanized (pastrami on rye) but you find great Italian sausages and peppers, Italian meatballs, as well as traditional American Reuben sandwiches. But you gotta find the places that make their stuff in-house, rather than buy wholesale from some provisioner. Razzano's in Glen Cove, is a good example, if you're on long island, NY. Molinari in SF is okay.
- balabaster 9y agoI had an amazing meatball sandwich the other day on ciabatta with cheese. It wasn't British enough though (on account of it being Italian), so I added some crunch by putting some ready salted crisps in it. Delicious ;)
- wj 9y agoBay Cities in Santa Monica and Gioia's in St. Louis are two of my favorite. One thing I have found, and hadn't realized until I had left LA, is that the quality of the bread can really elevate the quality of a sandwich.
- mc32 9y agoTrue; bread is pretty important. In SF sourdough is pretty prevalent --and that's ok, but it's not my preference. It's too tough --at times a bit like leather, so I prefer other types of crunchy loaves. Dutch crunch or baguette-style or even kummelweck.
- PaulRobinson 9y agoI don't know how long you've been living in the US, but that simply does not ring true any more. If you walk into an average M&S "Simply Food" - and these are now everywhere and they sell 20% of all sandwiches eaten in the UK each day - you will be confronted with 15-20 different sandwiches in wraps, subs and traditional bread. Not one of them will be the vision or memory you have of a thin slice of ham and a thin slice of cheese. The closest they sell to that has a decent amount of both and the sandwich is a good 2" thick. There is typically a range of options with some that are "lighter" and some which pack in more ingredients. That's for price point reasons. Even in M&S you can get a sandwich, packet of crisps and a drink for £3.50 - for that, you might be prepared to forego some salad. If you want a little more, you can, and you will pay a little more for it, and you will be sated. To me the sandwich industry has really changed over the last 5-10 years - far, far more choices.
- triplesec 9y agoIndeed, M&S revolutionised the sandwich in public purchase, and lots of small shops did that too, especialy in university towns like Oxford, and London. Then PRet a Manger came along and did more, and other more mainstreamish places have followed along, if not as well. Sandwiches in the UK have never been better.
- rayiner 9y agoFunny, I hate American sandwiches. I usually ask for half meat and then throw some more of the meat out. If I wanted to eat just a stack of sliced ham that’s what I’d do!
- Simon_says 9y agoWell, I'm American, and that's what I want to eat. The bread is just there to give some way to hold it.
- m_mueller 9y agoAs someone who's grown up with Swiss bread, this is exactly the bane of my existence with most food outside continental Europe. Can't live with plain tasting bread. Luckily Japan is slowly getting the hang of it, so I'm saved for now.
- eru 9y agoThanks to our Polish friends (I assume), London has some decent options for bread nowadays. Lots of them even sourdough and decent crust.
- contingencies 9y agoIMHO the popularity of packaged sandwiches in the UK is largely driven by three factors: (1) English people have famously bad taste when it comes to food, and most of them are truly willing to eat crap. (2) Many English people are cash or time poor, and this stuff is everywhere for $cheap. (3) Grab-and-go style sandwiches in boxes are made using industrial processes in which high initial investment results in small margins per sale which are often maximized at the expense of taste, eg. waterjet cutting, commercial standardized ingredients (eg. heavily processed industrial cheeses and meat slices), etc. As purely commercial operations, they don't care about quality until it limits sales.
- mattmanser 9y agoNo offence, but (1) hasn't been true for literally decades now, showing you to be a out of touch about the UK, which begs the question are you even vaguely right about 2 or 3?
- contingencies 9y agoSorry but your comment does not accord with recent first hand experience.
- louthy 9y agoSorry but your recent first hand experience isn't compatible with the phrase "English people have famously bad taste when it comes to food". One person's experience doesn't usually make something famous. I agree with the GP that this isn't a fair characterisation any more.
- heimidal 9y agoLike it or not, it's a prevailing stereotype in the US. After a trip to London a couple years back, I know that's not true, but the stereotype is going to take a long time to wear down.
- tmnvix 9y agoUntil you start buttering your bread, I have no desire to eat an American sandwich (with the obvious exception of the excellent reuben).
- kwhitefoot 9y agoEven then there is a risk that they will use the 'sweet cream' butter that is the most common type in the US. See https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/14619/why-is-butter-usually-labeled-sweet-cream https://cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/14619/why-is-but....