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I really really want my message here to be clear. I do not support this nonsense but I would love for people to start very successful businesses in their own re

I really really want my message here to be clear. I do not support this nonsense but I would love for people to start very successful businesses in their own respective countries. One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Three, further competitive wages. I believe that the visas hurt the competitive market for tech talent. Yes, at the expense of foreign talent this will happen. It’s shitty, and I’m really sorry that it will take a tweeting fool of a POTUS encouraging xenophobic behavior to have this happen. Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Again, I hope my post doesn’t come off wrong but it can be hard to post on this subject without pissing people off. There will be shorter term benefits to US workers but ideally this has some economic pain to US Tech companies and we open our borders to overseas tech talent with a more friendly visa program and improved wages.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Economic growth has not been equal, though. I live in Springfield, MO. I have plenty of certifications, a degree, and a year of tech support experience, yet it's been extremely tough to find a job that I could find in a heartbeat in a tech hub. > Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Shipping in foreign workers(and outsourcing) is part of the reason it's tough for me to find a job. The labor market has been kept artificially loose, which removes the incentive to develop the economies of more "rural" areas of the country. (I live in the third largest city in my state, so it shouldn't really be considered rural, but I digress) > Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Wages have been stagnant yet return on capital has been increasing massively. It seems to me like our problem isn't economic growth, it's distribution of that wealth. When Americans compete with people in lower costs of areas, lower expectations for their quality of life, and less leverage, it hurts American workers just so the owners can maximize profit. Middle class jobs have been shipped overseas and lower class jobs are being displaced by illegal immigrants in many states. At what point should we do something about that? edit: to those downvoting me, can you please explain why? What in my post was inaccurate?
- Daishiman 9y ago
  Your post is inaccurate because your belief that competition within the local American market distorts prices is somewhat misplaced, IMO. Talent is global. Large corporations have satellite offices, and there's a lot of nice places to live outside of the US. If people aren't going to the Bay, then they're going to London, or Berlin or Frankfurt or Paris, because costs in those cities are ultimately similar. Good devs want to go to interesting places. And if you can't pay for those places, there's a lot of alternatives in satellite offices in countries with a lower cost of living but incredibly talented engineers. Argentina, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, all have their own hubs with substantially lower costs. No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. And if the engineers can't go to the US, American companies just open satellite offices; Amazon has just opened an important AWS office in Madrid and it's attracting a lot of smart devs of Latin American countries who would be interested in immigrating to places with much different cultures or who can't be arsed to go through the pains of the American visa process.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    > No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. Hence the growing disdain for globalization, particularly in the parts of the country that _haven't_ been growing economically. Americans' wages have been stagnant or growing lower than inflation for decades. When that has been occurring, it doesn't make sense for workers to be pro-immigration or pro-globalization, because that would increase labor competition. If we compete against developers in other countries that have subsidized education, free healthcare, and a lower standard of living, how is that fair to American workers? Should we _lower_ American standards to compete with them, even though corporate profits are through the roof? Personally, I don't think so. At some point, quality of life needs to be prioritized over return on investment. Before you say "but it increases the quality of life of that foreigner," we don't live in a global government. I feel that our economy should be controllable by our government, and our government has no control over the economy or laws of another country.
    - addicted 9y ago

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago

> One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Economic growth has not been equal, though. I live in Springfield, MO. I have plenty of certifications, a degree, and a year of tech support experience, yet it's been extremely tough to find a job that I could find in a heartbeat in a tech hub. > Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Shipping in foreign workers(and outsourcing) is part of the reason it's tough for me to find a job. The labor market has been kept artificially loose, which removes the incentive to develop the economies of more "rural" areas of the country. (I live in the third largest city in my state, so it shouldn't really be considered rural, but I digress) > Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Wages have been stagnant yet return on capital has been increasing massively. It seems to me like our problem isn't economic growth, it's distribution of that wealth. When Americans compete with people in lower costs of areas, lower expectations for their quality of life, and less leverage, it hurts American workers just so the owners can maximize profit. Middle class jobs have been shipped overseas and lower class jobs are being displaced by illegal immigrants in many states. At what point should we do something about that? edit: to those downvoting me, can you please explain why? What in my post was inaccurate?

Daishiman 9y ago
Your post is inaccurate because your belief that competition within the local American market distorts prices is somewhat misplaced, IMO. Talent is global. Large corporations have satellite offices, and there's a lot of nice places to live outside of the US. If people aren't going to the Bay, then they're going to London, or Berlin or Frankfurt or Paris, because costs in those cities are ultimately similar. Good devs want to go to interesting places. And if you can't pay for those places, there's a lot of alternatives in satellite offices in countries with a lower cost of living but incredibly talented engineers. Argentina, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, all have their own hubs with substantially lower costs. No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. And if the engineers can't go to the US, American companies just open satellite offices; Amazon has just opened an important AWS office in Madrid and it's attracting a lot of smart devs of Latin American countries who would be interested in immigrating to places with much different cultures or who can't be arsed to go through the pains of the American visa process.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. Hence the growing disdain for globalization, particularly in the parts of the country that _haven't_ been growing economically. Americans' wages have been stagnant or growing lower than inflation for decades. When that has been occurring, it doesn't make sense for workers to be pro-immigration or pro-globalization, because that would increase labor competition. If we compete against developers in other countries that have subsidized education, free healthcare, and a lower standard of living, how is that fair to American workers? Should we _lower_ American standards to compete with them, even though corporate profits are through the roof? Personally, I don't think so. At some point, quality of life needs to be prioritized over return on investment. Before you say "but it increases the quality of life of that foreigner," we don't live in a global government. I feel that our economy should be controllable by our government, and our government has no control over the economy or laws of another country.
  - addicted 9y ago