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The message from the US administration to skilled migrants is loud and clear: you're not welcome to the US, don't waste your time, don't commit yourself to a co

The message from the US administration to skilled migrants is loud and clear: you're not welcome to the US, don't waste your time, don't commit yourself to a country that has no interest in treating you like anything else aside from an expendable resource with no promise of a future. Use your skills and intellect and go to countries that value talent. There's excellent job opportunities in Canada, Western Europe and even many of the originating countries for a lot of potential migrants nowadays. Venture capital is starting to realize this and slowly but surely they'll fund efforts in startups outside of the US. I looked into opportunities in the US and the uncertainty of the migratory status is way too much, combined with the horrendous cost of living in coastal American cities. I'd rather look into German or French companies, or just work remote for a fraction of an American salary but with much greater opportunities to save money.

brogrammernot 9y ago
I really really want my message here to be clear. I do not support this nonsense but I would love for people to start very successful businesses in their own respective countries. One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Three, further competitive wages. I believe that the visas hurt the competitive market for tech talent. Yes, at the expense of foreign talent this will happen. It’s shitty, and I’m really sorry that it will take a tweeting fool of a POTUS encouraging xenophobic behavior to have this happen. Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Again, I hope my post doesn’t come off wrong but it can be hard to post on this subject without pissing people off. There will be shorter term benefits to US workers but ideally this has some economic pain to US Tech companies and we open our borders to overseas tech talent with a more friendly visa program and improved wages.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Economic growth has not been equal, though. I live in Springfield, MO. I have plenty of certifications, a degree, and a year of tech support experience, yet it's been extremely tough to find a job that I could find in a heartbeat in a tech hub. > Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Shipping in foreign workers(and outsourcing) is part of the reason it's tough for me to find a job. The labor market has been kept artificially loose, which removes the incentive to develop the economies of more "rural" areas of the country. (I live in the third largest city in my state, so it shouldn't really be considered rural, but I digress) > Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Wages have been stagnant yet return on capital has been increasing massively. It seems to me like our problem isn't economic growth, it's distribution of that wealth. When Americans compete with people in lower costs of areas, lower expectations for their quality of life, and less leverage, it hurts American workers just so the owners can maximize profit. Middle class jobs have been shipped overseas and lower class jobs are being displaced by illegal immigrants in many states. At what point should we do something about that? edit: to those downvoting me, can you please explain why? What in my post was inaccurate?
  - Daishiman 9y ago
    Your post is inaccurate because your belief that competition within the local American market distorts prices is somewhat misplaced, IMO. Talent is global. Large corporations have satellite offices, and there's a lot of nice places to live outside of the US. If people aren't going to the Bay, then they're going to London, or Berlin or Frankfurt or Paris, because costs in those cities are ultimately similar. Good devs want to go to interesting places. And if you can't pay for those places, there's a lot of alternatives in satellite offices in countries with a lower cost of living but incredibly talented engineers. Argentina, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, all have their own hubs with substantially lower costs. No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. And if the engineers can't go to the US, American companies just open satellite offices; Amazon has just opened an important AWS office in Madrid and it's attracting a lot of smart devs of Latin American countries who would be interested in immigrating to places with much different cultures or who can't be arsed to go through the pains of the American visa process.
nnd 9y ago
Depends on what your goals are, if it's the quality of life, US might not be the best choice, otherwise, how would you explain that with all that hostility towards skilled immigrants, there are still plenty of people applying for US jobs?
- Daishiman 9y ago
  There's always people applying for jobs and there's always people who want to improve their standard of living. That doesn't make it the best alternative. Also, a most people outside of the US have an idealized vision of how it is. They rarely get to hear about the exorbitant costs of education and housing, the nonexistant public transportation and absence of a social safety net, or the limited vacation time. For a lot of younger people those things don't matter either, and guess who are the people most likely to immigrate. It's also true that for a lot of highly specialized niche markets, the coastal cities have a disproportionately high level of compensation that can make up for those things. However, in my experience, a significant number of people with H1Bs have stayed in the US for a couple years, found the living conditions on the Bay to be completely not worth it, then went back home with a pile of cash.
geebee 9y ago
I agree, that is the message from the US right now, and it is harmful. I also feel strongly that the H1B itself is a pretty horrendous program. The amount of corporate control over the immigration process, the power to decide who is allowed to come here and the conditions under which they are allowed to remain, the restrictive nature of the jobs an "immigrant" is allowed to work... the whole thing is horrible. I insist that a person can be both very pro immigration and absolutely aghast at the way this program is run. I say this with full understanding that for a lot of would be immigrants who lack family connections, this is your only viable path, so none of this blame falls on the people who come here. But of course, that's just extra gravy for the corporations, especially in Silicon Valley - the lack of viable alternate immigration paths just makes their control over the H1B system even more valuable. Freedom to decide how and where you're work, to me, is a core civil and human right. Nobody owes you a job, but you should have the right to pursue work according to your own personal interests, in response to pay, work conditions, location, and other market signals. If this means people don't become developers in Silicon Valley in the numbers tech companies believe they should, that is not a problem for the government to solve for them, certainly not by handing them control over a huge "shadow" immigration system. I can't be surprised that these corporations are succeeding in tarring those who oppose the H1B visa with the stink of "anti-immigrant" sentiment. That's how the system works, I guess. But it's pure manipulation. They act like they're champions of the immigrant, but sadly, what they lobby for is a deeply corrupt and manipulative program that allows them what I consider an unacceptable amount of power over an individual's life. This H1B program is horrible, make no doubt about it. I would welcome a general skilled immigration program that preserves freedom for immigrants (though I would be opposed to overly emphasizing STEM, as I don't believe there is any meaningful shortage of STEM workers that can't be explained as a perfectly rational response to pay and working conditions among people with the talent an ambition to work in demanding fields).
joeschmoecad 9y ago
I'm a Canadian who was on an H1B working in the valley for the past 6 years working at Director/VP Eng. level for various technology startups. As you mentioned, the message is quite clear. The US is closing its doors. They no longer want immigrants (skilled or otherwise) working or living in their country. Read the comments in the article. Look at the changes coming from the Trump administration. Even while crossing the border you get a sense that you are not welcome there. This year, I gave that up and returned to Canada. It feels great to be back, contributing to the booming local tech scene, and I am so thankful to call this amazing country home.

brogrammernot 9y ago

I really really want my message here to be clear. I do not support this nonsense but I would love for people to start very successful businesses in their own respective countries. One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Three, further competitive wages. I believe that the visas hurt the competitive market for tech talent. Yes, at the expense of foreign talent this will happen. It’s shitty, and I’m really sorry that it will take a tweeting fool of a POTUS encouraging xenophobic behavior to have this happen. Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Again, I hope my post doesn’t come off wrong but it can be hard to post on this subject without pissing people off. There will be shorter term benefits to US workers but ideally this has some economic pain to US Tech companies and we open our borders to overseas tech talent with a more friendly visa program and improved wages.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> One, I am tired of the notion you have to be in a coastal city to be successful (SF, LA, Seattle etc). Economic growth has not been equal, though. I live in Springfield, MO. I have plenty of certifications, a degree, and a year of tech support experience, yet it's been extremely tough to find a job that I could find in a heartbeat in a tech hub. > Two, as a tech industry we need a wake up call that a tremendous amount of talent comes from foreign workers and we should be more thankful of this. Shipping in foreign workers(and outsourcing) is part of the reason it's tough for me to find a job. The labor market has been kept artificially loose, which removes the incentive to develop the economies of more "rural" areas of the country. (I live in the third largest city in my state, so it shouldn't really be considered rural, but I digress) > Fourth, I think as a country we have to understand the real economic pain experienced when we no longer have access to overseas talent. Wages have been stagnant yet return on capital has been increasing massively. It seems to me like our problem isn't economic growth, it's distribution of that wealth. When Americans compete with people in lower costs of areas, lower expectations for their quality of life, and less leverage, it hurts American workers just so the owners can maximize profit. Middle class jobs have been shipped overseas and lower class jobs are being displaced by illegal immigrants in many states. At what point should we do something about that? edit: to those downvoting me, can you please explain why? What in my post was inaccurate?
- Daishiman 9y ago
  Your post is inaccurate because your belief that competition within the local American market distorts prices is somewhat misplaced, IMO. Talent is global. Large corporations have satellite offices, and there's a lot of nice places to live outside of the US. If people aren't going to the Bay, then they're going to London, or Berlin or Frankfurt or Paris, because costs in those cities are ultimately similar. Good devs want to go to interesting places. And if you can't pay for those places, there's a lot of alternatives in satellite offices in countries with a lower cost of living but incredibly talented engineers. Argentina, Poland, Czech Republic, Romania, all have their own hubs with substantially lower costs. No amount of visa restrictions in the US is going to change those variables. And if the engineers can't go to the US, American companies just open satellite offices; Amazon has just opened an important AWS office in Madrid and it's attracting a lot of smart devs of Latin American countries who would be interested in immigrating to places with much different cultures or who can't be arsed to go through the pains of the American visa process.

nnd 9y ago

Depends on what your goals are, if it's the quality of life, US might not be the best choice, otherwise, how would you explain that with all that hostility towards skilled immigrants, there are still plenty of people applying for US jobs?

Daishiman 9y ago
There's always people applying for jobs and there's always people who want to improve their standard of living. That doesn't make it the best alternative. Also, a most people outside of the US have an idealized vision of how it is. They rarely get to hear about the exorbitant costs of education and housing, the nonexistant public transportation and absence of a social safety net, or the limited vacation time. For a lot of younger people those things don't matter either, and guess who are the people most likely to immigrate. It's also true that for a lot of highly specialized niche markets, the coastal cities have a disproportionately high level of compensation that can make up for those things. However, in my experience, a significant number of people with H1Bs have stayed in the US for a couple years, found the living conditions on the Bay to be completely not worth it, then went back home with a pile of cash.

geebee 9y ago

I agree, that is the message from the US right now, and it is harmful. I also feel strongly that the H1B itself is a pretty horrendous program. The amount of corporate control over the immigration process, the power to decide who is allowed to come here and the conditions under which they are allowed to remain, the restrictive nature of the jobs an "immigrant" is allowed to work... the whole thing is horrible. I insist that a person can be both very pro immigration and absolutely aghast at the way this program is run. I say this with full understanding that for a lot of would be immigrants who lack family connections, this is your only viable path, so none of this blame falls on the people who come here. But of course, that's just extra gravy for the corporations, especially in Silicon Valley - the lack of viable alternate immigration paths just makes their control over the H1B system even more valuable. Freedom to decide how and where you're work, to me, is a core civil and human right. Nobody owes you a job, but you should have the right to pursue work according to your own personal interests, in response to pay, work conditions, location, and other market signals. If this means people don't become developers in Silicon Valley in the numbers tech companies believe they should, that is not a problem for the government to solve for them, certainly not by handing them control over a huge "shadow" immigration system. I can't be surprised that these corporations are succeeding in tarring those who oppose the H1B visa with the stink of "anti-immigrant" sentiment. That's how the system works, I guess. But it's pure manipulation. They act like they're champions of the immigrant, but sadly, what they lobby for is a deeply corrupt and manipulative program that allows them what I consider an unacceptable amount of power over an individual's life. This H1B program is horrible, make no doubt about it. I would welcome a general skilled immigration program that preserves freedom for immigrants (though I would be opposed to overly emphasizing STEM, as I don't believe there is any meaningful shortage of STEM workers that can't be explained as a perfectly rational response to pay and working conditions among people with the talent an ambition to work in demanding fields).

joeschmoecad 9y ago

I'm a Canadian who was on an H1B working in the valley for the past 6 years working at Director/VP Eng. level for various technology startups. As you mentioned, the message is quite clear. The US is closing its doors. They no longer want immigrants (skilled or otherwise) working or living in their country. Read the comments in the article. Look at the changes coming from the Trump administration. Even while crossing the border you get a sense that you are not welcome there. This year, I gave that up and returned to Canada. It feels great to be back, contributing to the booming local tech scene, and I am so thankful to call this amazing country home.