3 ms·

That's not at all what it says. The cost of moving to Windows and office is ~€5 million: >€ 4.8 million and licenses (for Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office,

by tw04 9y ago

That's not at all what it says. The cost of moving to Windows and office is ~€5 million: >€ 4.8 million and licenses (for Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, software distribution, The €50 is for hardware replacements that were going to happen anyway. Nothing in the article addresses the harder to track costs of user efficiency and expert support staff. I'm not claiming it's cheaper in either direction, but staffing costs are a very, very real cost.

chrisan 9y ago
Plus, wouldnt the cost be nearly the same if they were on older windows/office and just looking to upgrade to latest?
frik 9y ago
I am not sure if your short summary is correct either. Isn't Windows is the reason why they want to tranformation from Linux to Windows? The original documents say something else. The original document mentions 89 million EUR. If the translation is half correct: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740966.pdf&usg=ALkJrhiWj0IRrIvZSgalQnmU-nFcx7ZLmA https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2Fnews%2Flimux-ende-muenchen-beschliesst-90-millionen-fuer-it-umbau-1711-131302.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...
- tw04 9y ago
  The 89m is their ENTIRE IT budget over 6 years.
mijoharas 9y ago
From the text: > the former open-source champion would pay €49.3 million to create a new Windows 10 client OS I don't know what you mean by calling a "new client OS" "hardware replacements that were going to happen anyway". I find the sentence confusing itself, as the OS would be microsoft, maybe they mean a distribution with preinstalled software? Either way, I don't read it to mean hardware replacemens
- notatoad 9y ago
  I find it equally hard to read that sentence and assume they're actually spending €50m to create a new OS when whole point of the article is that they're switching to an OS that already exists. the only assumption i can make is that the author of the article doesn't know what they're talking about.
mschuster91 9y ago
> The €50 is for hardware replacements that were going to happen anyway. What do you think why people complain about Limux all the time? Hint: the PCs, keyboard, mice, screens - everything WAY outdated. Most, I'd take a guess here though, not even able to run W7. Also, LOL 4.8 M€ only for total cost of licenses and migration? Count that x4, at the very least. Shifting the blame on Limux instead of the lack of money for proper hardware is the easy way of justifying to shift millions upon millions of dollars into the coffers of Accenture and Microsoft.
- agumonkey 9y ago
  I don't know how limux was done, but modern hardware may give just about nothing to the users. Office was single threaded until 2007, companies with previous office licence wouldn't upgrade, but they had modern thinkcenter desktop with good dual core cpus yet their excel spreadsheet would choke on a single core all day long. A good information system is almost an art, it requires proper knowledge from hardware, network config (<= most probable performance bottleneck for the users), software and end users. Nobody does this because it's too subtle and not rewarding enough. But if someone did, any city could operate on "old" hardware using linux. I don't speak for the office suite because LibreOffice [1] is not good enough IMO. But for the rest it could be even better than recent win10 machines. [1] I love their work, it's amazing but.. still not there yet, just like firefox and chrome.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mschuster91 9y ago
    > I don't know how limux was done, but modern hardware may give just about nothing to the users. I am talking about machines with less than 2GB of RAM, running modern versions of Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice in addition to all the custom software required for the jobs (including, for some, the Java SAP client). You get why people complain about the computers being slow? FF is notorious for memory hogging, Thunderbird is not much behind it, and OpenOffice and SAP GUI are Java crap which means a tendency to leak memory the longer you have it running and general downsides of simply being Java. The machines swapped like hell, and SATA disks were not a given. In addition, web sites themselves have grown in resource usage in an exponential way. HN and Fefes Blog are the only two websites I know that I can use even when my data allowance on my phone is finished and I'm throttled to 56k. Everything other? Forget it. And it's not just data usage, it's also RAM and CPU usage, e.g. due to ads and dozens of trackers. > network config Actually, it's not the config that's the bottleneck - it's the uplinks and crosslinks between the dozens of city buildings which includes the schools - mine, for example, was linked to the central DC with a 10/10 fiber 14 years ago and still was when I left the school 6 years ago, you can guess how much "fun" that is to use...
merb 9y ago
Costs are as follow: - 14 Mio € for personal costs - 24 Mio € for consulting (not sure why that is that high?!) - 13,4 Mio € for it@M services (support, hardware installation, etc it@M is the it company that manages the project) - 4,8 Mio € for HARDWARE - 29,9 Mio € for Licenses (Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, software delivery, License-, Print-, and Profile Management, identity management and extension of the virtualisation environment) (to be fair the pdf quotes that a big cost will be the investment into additional virtualisation, probably licenses) Source: https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740966.pdf https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740... Somebody read over the 'and' (edit:) and to be fair it's a wierd way of expressing something that is so important in german. probably an intention.
- mistermann 9y ago
  I've worked in industry long enough to suspect that there's an excellent chance that any quoted numbers are so adjusted by whoever is most politically powerful that my intuition is to just shrug my shoulders and move on to the next article. Dishonesty is so prevalent in so many "news" articles today a person should just read things and have a little chuckle before going about their day.
angry_octet 9y ago
The hardware replacement cost must be realised because of Windows 10 compatibility, the old computers don't support it. Same problem hits on Win 7 to Win 10 transition.

by tw04 9y ago

chrisan 9y ago

Plus, wouldnt the cost be nearly the same if they were on older windows/office and just looking to upgrade to latest?

frik 9y ago

I am not sure if your short summary is correct either. Isn't Windows is the reason why they want to tranformation from Linux to Windows? The original documents say something else. The original document mentions 89 million EUR. If the translation is half correct: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740966.pdf&usg=ALkJrhiWj0IRrIvZSgalQnmU-nFcx7ZLmA https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golem.de%2Fnews%2Flimux-ende-muenchen-beschliesst-90-millionen-fuer-it-umbau-1711-131302.html&edit-text=&act=url https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&pr...

tw04 9y ago
The 89m is their ENTIRE IT budget over 6 years.

mijoharas 9y ago

From the text: > the former open-source champion would pay €49.3 million to create a new Windows 10 client OS I don't know what you mean by calling a "new client OS" "hardware replacements that were going to happen anyway". I find the sentence confusing itself, as the OS would be microsoft, maybe they mean a distribution with preinstalled software? Either way, I don't read it to mean hardware replacemens

notatoad 9y ago
I find it equally hard to read that sentence and assume they're actually spending €50m to create a new OS when whole point of the article is that they're switching to an OS that already exists. the only assumption i can make is that the author of the article doesn't know what they're talking about.

mschuster91 9y ago

> The €50 is for hardware replacements that were going to happen anyway. What do you think why people complain about Limux all the time? Hint: the PCs, keyboard, mice, screens - everything WAY outdated. Most, I'd take a guess here though, not even able to run W7. Also, LOL 4.8 M€ only for total cost of licenses and migration? Count that x4, at the very least. Shifting the blame on Limux instead of the lack of money for proper hardware is the easy way of justifying to shift millions upon millions of dollars into the coffers of Accenture and Microsoft.

agumonkey 9y ago
I don't know how limux was done, but modern hardware may give just about nothing to the users. Office was single threaded until 2007, companies with previous office licence wouldn't upgrade, but they had modern thinkcenter desktop with good dual core cpus yet their excel spreadsheet would choke on a single core all day long. A good information system is almost an art, it requires proper knowledge from hardware, network config (<= most probable performance bottleneck for the users), software and end users. Nobody does this because it's too subtle and not rewarding enough. But if someone did, any city could operate on "old" hardware using linux. I don't speak for the office suite because LibreOffice [1] is not good enough IMO. But for the rest it could be even better than recent win10 machines. [1] I love their work, it's amazing but.. still not there yet, just like firefox and chrome.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mschuster91 9y ago
  > I don't know how limux was done, but modern hardware may give just about nothing to the users. I am talking about machines with less than 2GB of RAM, running modern versions of Firefox, Thunderbird and OpenOffice in addition to all the custom software required for the jobs (including, for some, the Java SAP client). You get why people complain about the computers being slow? FF is notorious for memory hogging, Thunderbird is not much behind it, and OpenOffice and SAP GUI are Java crap which means a tendency to leak memory the longer you have it running and general downsides of simply being Java. The machines swapped like hell, and SATA disks were not a given. In addition, web sites themselves have grown in resource usage in an exponential way. HN and Fefes Blog are the only two websites I know that I can use even when my data allowance on my phone is finished and I'm throttled to 56k. Everything other? Forget it. And it's not just data usage, it's also RAM and CPU usage, e.g. due to ads and dozens of trackers. > network config Actually, it's not the config that's the bottleneck - it's the uplinks and crosslinks between the dozens of city buildings which includes the schools - mine, for example, was linked to the central DC with a 10/10 fiber 14 years ago and still was when I left the school 6 years ago, you can guess how much "fun" that is to use...

merb 9y ago

Costs are as follow: - 14 Mio € for personal costs - 24 Mio € for consulting (not sure why that is that high?!) - 13,4 Mio € for it@M services (support, hardware installation, etc it@M is the it company that manages the project) - 4,8 Mio € for HARDWARE - 29,9 Mio € for Licenses (Microsoft Windows, Microsoft Office, software delivery, License-, Print-, and Profile Management, identity management and extension of the virtualisation environment) (to be fair the pdf quotes that a big cost will be the investment into additional virtualisation, probably licenses) Source: https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740966.pdf https://www.ris-muenchen.de/RII/RII/DOK/SITZUNGSVORLAGE/4740... Somebody read over the 'and' (edit:) and to be fair it's a wierd way of expressing something that is so important in german. probably an intention.

mistermann 9y ago
I've worked in industry long enough to suspect that there's an excellent chance that any quoted numbers are so adjusted by whoever is most politically powerful that my intuition is to just shrug my shoulders and move on to the next article. Dishonesty is so prevalent in so many "news" articles today a person should just read things and have a little chuckle before going about their day.

angry_octet 9y ago

The hardware replacement cost must be realised because of Windows 10 compatibility, the old computers don't support it. Same problem hits on Win 7 to Win 10 transition.