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The revocation of the Net Neutrality rules became a foregone conclusion once Donald Trump was elected. The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneiderman

The revocation of the Net Neutrality rules became a foregone conclusion once Donald Trump was elected. The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneidermann or anyone else can do about it. There are 5 FCC commissioners but only 3 may be of the same party. Ajit Pai, Brendan Carr and Michael O'Rielly are locks to vote in favor, so it will pass, 3-2. At this point the best thing people can do is prepare to vote in 2018 and 2020, whether that's registering voters or forming groups to get lazy liberals or independents to vote to send better people to Washington. One side aspect that I think hasn't been covered: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai is a former Verizon lawyer and probably plans to parley his government experience into a lucrative gig at one of the big telcos once the Republicans are inevitably thrown out of office, so he stands to personally profit from this decision. As Donald Trump would say, SAD.

jjtheblunt 9y ago
You're rather convinced Trump belongs to big telecom...i'd suggest more skepticism and waiting and seeing.
- grasshopperpurp 9y ago
  Trump belongs to the wind.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- djtriptych 9y ago
  How is "waiting and seeing" more reasonable than "assuming the worst" at this point?
tzs 9y ago
> At this point the best thing people can do is prepare to vote in 2018 and 2020, whether that's registering voters or forming groups to get lazy liberals or independents to vote to send better people to Washington. There should be some effort to get more moderate Republicans involved. There are plenty of Republicans who support net neutrality, but do not consider that as important an issue as other issues on which Republicans and Democrats differ, such as immigration, taxes, gun rights, abortion, and many others. I think that most of the less moderate Republican voters who oppose net neutrality mostly do so because their representatives and party officials tell them to. It's not like, say, their opposition to abortion which they came to on their own and then used that to help choose their party. If that is true, it should be possible to move the GOP to a place where net neutrality is something that a Republican candidate can either support or oppose and still have a chance of winning a GOP primary or caucus.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
EddieRingle 9y ago
> FCC Chairman Ajit Pai is a former Verizon lawyer He worked in their legal department for 2-3 years 15 years ago. All of his other time has been spent has a public servant. People need to stop bringing this up, because it only muddies the actual policy debate.
- ghrifter 9y ago
  Most commissioners for all sorts of branches/govmt arms come from the private sector...But-but Verizon!!! ugh. No one ever bothers to bring up this document either, which isnt going away... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Open_Internet_Order_2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Open_Internet_Order_2010
  - milcron 9y ago
    It absolutely is going away. The courts ruled that those stipulations aren't enforceable unless ISPs are Title II common carriers.
- jkelsey 9y ago
  This shouldn't be downvoted. We don't need to make up things about people to attack terrible policy and unethical behavior.
  - colejohnson66 9y ago
    People downvote things that disagree with their biases. I thought Hacker News was better than this though.
- dmalvarado 9y ago
  Let's wait and see where he ends up. If he doesn't immediately go back to telecom after his appointment is over, then I'll agree bringing up his history wasn't warranted.
  - epmaybe 9y ago
    I'm curious, where would you expect someone with years of experience in a specific industry to go after public office? Besides public office, of course.
_jal 9y ago
As far as things you can do, I'd add doing whatever you can to push local broadband, if it is feasible wherever you are. If your local government is trying, push for it! If you have state laws that forbid local governments from serving their constituents, push to repeal those. The telecoms have many sophisticated strategies they pursue; one is alternating between "states rights" and FCC-friendly arguments to create a ratchet locking out competitors. If you break one side of the ratchet, at least some folks can have first-world bandwidth.
sschueller 9y ago
Not to defend trump but it's congress that is corrupt to the core. The cable companies have been trying this many times before and congress is on their side. At this point it's just a matter of time. We need to get the corruption out of congress.
- Tasboo 9y ago
  More like we need to limit the influence that money and lobbyists can have on elected officials. Changing seats in Congress will just put new people in place who will more than likely do the same thing.
  - buttcoinslol 9y ago
    The first step is repealing Citizens United v FEC, which won't be easy with Trump poised to make at least one more Supreme Court pick.
whowouldathunk 9y ago
Best thing to do is probably to contact your representatives and senators in order to get Congress to act on net neutrality.
creaghpatr 9y ago
Per Trump exec order, he can't lobby for at least 2 years and most likely 5 depending on his tenure. So it's not a profitable move for him, taking this position.
- jjoonathan 9y ago
  I remember hearing that the no-lobbying executive order was loopholed pretty badly. Does it actually apply here?
  - creaghpatr 9y ago
    Depends how cynical you are. He could technically lobby 'other parts' of the government according to this article but it does not specify, only reiterates you can't lobby your former agency for 5 years. Serving 5 years in a government position when you could be an exec at a Telecom company is a gigantic opportunity cost so the point here is that he's not getting paid off, unless fraudulently, which can't be completely ruled out. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-lobbying-ban-weakens-obama-ethics-rules-234318 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-lobbying-ban-we...
    - burkaman 9y ago
      You don't have to be that cynical, they waive the requirements whenever they feel like it. https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-trump-administration-may-be-skirting-its-own-ethics-rules https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-trump-administrat...
    - avparker 9y ago
      Would the FTC count as "other parts of the government"? I seem to recall one of the arguments of Pai is that the FCC shouldn't be responsible for regulation of the internet, it should fall under the FTC. So as head of the FCC he can effectively strip it of all power, the governance shifting to the FTC. Once his commission is up he takes a job at Verizon/At&T/etc, lobbying the FTC. Or, as burkaman noted, they will just issue a waiver.
- 9y ago
NHQ 9y ago
Regulations are not the answer, for the very reason that they will flip-flop with political appointees, and it amounts to people begging for what they rightly should demand.
- rectang 9y ago
  The inconsistency in this position is prioritizing killing off net neutrality regulations while the thicket of regulations which cement the ISP oligopoly remain in place to be dispensed with probably never.
  - alexanderstears 9y ago
    Oligopoly? Most people seem to be served by a monopoly.
    - thechao 9y ago
      My HOA requires me to use TWC, or get a fine which can lead to a lien. TWC doesn’t even exist in my part of Texas: it’s spectrum or ATT.
      - cookiecaper 9y ago
        Spectrum is the result of a merger that subsumed TWC, for what it's worth. Your HOA just needs to update its paperwork. I'm sure a judge would see things your way if someone actually pursued you for failing to use a company that doesn't exist anymore.
- jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago
  You realize that all utility networks are regulated and have been since the advent of electrification and telegraphs? There's no neutral here, it's a fundamentally regulated industry. Exactly what solution would you offer that isn't in the form of regulation?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
japhyr 9y ago
> At this point the best thing people can do is prepare to vote in 2018 and 2020, whether that's registering voters or forming groups to get lazy liberals or independents to vote to send better people to Washington. My biggest fear in our current situation is the threat of voter suppression and election fraud. Any suggestions on shining a light on these issues, and combating them?
Elorm99 9y ago
The effect is nonpartisan. Whether you're Alex Jones or Bannon we'll all the affected equally, I just only your this comment can be brought to the president's attention through a tweet or something of that nature. Or one of the critical mouthpieces he pay's attention to.
mikestew 9y ago
FCC Chairman Ajit Pai is a former Verizon lawyer and probably plans to parley his government experience into a lucrative gig at one of the big telcos I don’t care if he was a professional kitten killer, it has little relevance to actions currently being taken. I say this for two reasons: Pai has spent more time in public service than he did at Verizon, by multiples. And second, who cares what his motivation is? Does that amplify or mitigate the circumstances in some way? No? Then it’s just a distraction from the issue at hand, which is bad enough that we best not derail the conversation worrying about where someone worked twenty years ago.
- IvyMike 9y ago
  > And second, who cares what his motivation is? Knowing his motivations (is he simply misinformed? is he corrupt? does he believe in strict libertarianism?) has a big impact in shaping a winning strategy to oppose him.
  - mancerayder 9y ago
    What are some examples of possible strategies specific to him at this point in the timeline?
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Eh, I’m having a hard time mentally walking through how this would work. Because it would seem to me that his mind is going to be made up at this point, and we need to persuade those that think he’s right (and maybe “he’s a shill” can do that, dunno). But that doesn’t mean I can’t upvote a reasonable POV with which I just happen to disagree.
sanderjd 9y ago
Congress could still take action to keep this from happening. It's a long shot, but the folks in Congress still don't really want to be tossed out next time they're up. They're hoping people will not notice this is happening or will not realize its effect until much later, and on not being blamed for it by the folks that do notice and care. We should all be making it clear that not only do we know and care about this, we also don't buy that Congress is powerless.
- noobermin 9y ago
  You know, if this was true, half of congress wouldn't be there. You forget about gerrymandering and establishment party politics keeping people who are amiable to telecoms in power.
Alex3917 9y ago
> The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneidermann or anyone else can do about it. If the FCC is cooperating with criminals to cover up fraud, can they be RICO'd?
inetknght 9y ago
> The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneidermann or anyone else can do about it. If Ajit Pai continues to obstruct investigations, I would consider it obstruction of justice. That's something that an Attorney General should seriously consider in the current light.
- marcoperaza 9y ago
  A state AG has no authority to investigate a federal official for his official actions. The federal government is the superior sovereign and has the sole power to police itself. This is nothing but political grandstanding by Schneidermann.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  It's not obstruction because of federal supremacy; given the normal level of voluntary cooperation, it's bizarre that there is no cooperation, and suggests that the fraud is not just an outside fraud on the FCC but a fraud by the FCC (whether originally or merely one convenient to and retrospectively ratified by the agency.) But there is little a state AG can do in that case except publicize the issue. Well, relating to the identity misappropriation itself. Should there be litigation over the final regulation (as is near certain) and should the content of public comment and the FCC’s handling of it be an issue (as is also near certain), then things become a lot more interesting.
- npsimons 9y ago
  > If Ajit Pai continues to obstruct investigations, I would consider it obstruction of justice. That's something that an Attorney General should seriously consider in the current light. My recurring thought as I read the fine article: "you're an attorney general, a lawyer who has asked politely, multiple times and been ignored; why TF haven't you filed for a subpoena yet?"
ghrifter 9y ago
Most commissioners for all sorts of branches/govmt arms come from the private sector... However, being from Verizon is noticeable.

jjtheblunt 9y ago

You're rather convinced Trump belongs to big telecom...i'd suggest more skepticism and waiting and seeing.

grasshopperpurp 9y ago
Trump belongs to the wind.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
djtriptych 9y ago
How is "waiting and seeing" more reasonable than "assuming the worst" at this point?

tzs 9y ago

> At this point the best thing people can do is prepare to vote in 2018 and 2020, whether that's registering voters or forming groups to get lazy liberals or independents to vote to send better people to Washington. There should be some effort to get more moderate Republicans involved. There are plenty of Republicans who support net neutrality, but do not consider that as important an issue as other issues on which Republicans and Democrats differ, such as immigration, taxes, gun rights, abortion, and many others. I think that most of the less moderate Republican voters who oppose net neutrality mostly do so because their representatives and party officials tell them to. It's not like, say, their opposition to abortion which they came to on their own and then used that to help choose their party. If that is true, it should be possible to move the GOP to a place where net neutrality is something that a Republican candidate can either support or oppose and still have a chance of winning a GOP primary or caucus.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

EddieRingle 9y ago

> FCC Chairman Ajit Pai is a former Verizon lawyer He worked in their legal department for 2-3 years 15 years ago. All of his other time has been spent has a public servant. People need to stop bringing this up, because it only muddies the actual policy debate.

ghrifter 9y ago
Most commissioners for all sorts of branches/govmt arms come from the private sector...But-but Verizon!!! ugh. No one ever bothers to bring up this document either, which isnt going away... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Open_Internet_Order_2010 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_Open_Internet_Order_2010
- milcron 9y ago
  It absolutely is going away. The courts ruled that those stipulations aren't enforceable unless ISPs are Title II common carriers.
jkelsey 9y ago
This shouldn't be downvoted. We don't need to make up things about people to attack terrible policy and unethical behavior.
- colejohnson66 9y ago
  People downvote things that disagree with their biases. I thought Hacker News was better than this though.
dmalvarado 9y ago
Let's wait and see where he ends up. If he doesn't immediately go back to telecom after his appointment is over, then I'll agree bringing up his history wasn't warranted.
- epmaybe 9y ago
  I'm curious, where would you expect someone with years of experience in a specific industry to go after public office? Besides public office, of course.

_jal 9y ago

As far as things you can do, I'd add doing whatever you can to push local broadband, if it is feasible wherever you are. If your local government is trying, push for it! If you have state laws that forbid local governments from serving their constituents, push to repeal those. The telecoms have many sophisticated strategies they pursue; one is alternating between "states rights" and FCC-friendly arguments to create a ratchet locking out competitors. If you break one side of the ratchet, at least some folks can have first-world bandwidth.

sschueller 9y ago

Not to defend trump but it's congress that is corrupt to the core. The cable companies have been trying this many times before and congress is on their side. At this point it's just a matter of time. We need to get the corruption out of congress.

Tasboo 9y ago
More like we need to limit the influence that money and lobbyists can have on elected officials. Changing seats in Congress will just put new people in place who will more than likely do the same thing.
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  The first step is repealing Citizens United v FEC, which won't be easy with Trump poised to make at least one more Supreme Court pick.

whowouldathunk 9y ago

Best thing to do is probably to contact your representatives and senators in order to get Congress to act on net neutrality.

creaghpatr 9y ago

Per Trump exec order, he can't lobby for at least 2 years and most likely 5 depending on his tenure. So it's not a profitable move for him, taking this position.

jjoonathan 9y ago
I remember hearing that the no-lobbying executive order was loopholed pretty badly. Does it actually apply here?
- creaghpatr 9y ago
  Depends how cynical you are. He could technically lobby 'other parts' of the government according to this article but it does not specify, only reiterates you can't lobby your former agency for 5 years. Serving 5 years in a government position when you could be an exec at a Telecom company is a gigantic opportunity cost so the point here is that he's not getting paid off, unless fraudulently, which can't be completely ruled out. https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-lobbying-ban-weakens-obama-ethics-rules-234318 https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-lobbying-ban-we...
  - burkaman 9y ago
    You don't have to be that cynical, they waive the requirements whenever they feel like it. https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-trump-administration-may-be-skirting-its-own-ethics-rules https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-trump-administrat...
  - avparker 9y ago
    Would the FTC count as "other parts of the government"? I seem to recall one of the arguments of Pai is that the FCC shouldn't be responsible for regulation of the internet, it should fall under the FTC. So as head of the FCC he can effectively strip it of all power, the governance shifting to the FTC. Once his commission is up he takes a job at Verizon/At&T/etc, lobbying the FTC. Or, as burkaman noted, they will just issue a waiver.
9y ago

NHQ 9y ago

Regulations are not the answer, for the very reason that they will flip-flop with political appointees, and it amounts to people begging for what they rightly should demand.

rectang 9y ago
The inconsistency in this position is prioritizing killing off net neutrality regulations while the thicket of regulations which cement the ISP oligopoly remain in place to be dispensed with probably never.
- alexanderstears 9y ago
  Oligopoly? Most people seem to be served by a monopoly.
  - thechao 9y ago
    My HOA requires me to use TWC, or get a fine which can lead to a lien. TWC doesn’t even exist in my part of Texas: it’s spectrum or ATT.
    - cookiecaper 9y ago
      Spectrum is the result of a merger that subsumed TWC, for what it's worth. Your HOA just needs to update its paperwork. I'm sure a judge would see things your way if someone actually pursued you for failing to use a company that doesn't exist anymore.
jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago
You realize that all utility networks are regulated and have been since the advent of electrification and telegraphs? There's no neutral here, it's a fundamentally regulated industry. Exactly what solution would you offer that isn't in the form of regulation?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

japhyr 9y ago

> At this point the best thing people can do is prepare to vote in 2018 and 2020, whether that's registering voters or forming groups to get lazy liberals or independents to vote to send better people to Washington. My biggest fear in our current situation is the threat of voter suppression and election fraud. Any suggestions on shining a light on these issues, and combating them?

Elorm99 9y ago

The effect is nonpartisan. Whether you're Alex Jones or Bannon we'll all the affected equally, I just only your this comment can be brought to the president's attention through a tweet or something of that nature. Or one of the critical mouthpieces he pay's attention to.

mikestew 9y ago

FCC Chairman Ajit Pai is a former Verizon lawyer and probably plans to parley his government experience into a lucrative gig at one of the big telcos I don’t care if he was a professional kitten killer, it has little relevance to actions currently being taken. I say this for two reasons: Pai has spent more time in public service than he did at Verizon, by multiples. And second, who cares what his motivation is? Does that amplify or mitigate the circumstances in some way? No? Then it’s just a distraction from the issue at hand, which is bad enough that we best not derail the conversation worrying about where someone worked twenty years ago.

IvyMike 9y ago
> And second, who cares what his motivation is? Knowing his motivations (is he simply misinformed? is he corrupt? does he believe in strict libertarianism?) has a big impact in shaping a winning strategy to oppose him.
- mancerayder 9y ago
  What are some examples of possible strategies specific to him at this point in the timeline?
- mikestew 9y ago
  Eh, I’m having a hard time mentally walking through how this would work. Because it would seem to me that his mind is going to be made up at this point, and we need to persuade those that think he’s right (and maybe “he’s a shill” can do that, dunno). But that doesn’t mean I can’t upvote a reasonable POV with which I just happen to disagree.

sanderjd 9y ago

Congress could still take action to keep this from happening. It's a long shot, but the folks in Congress still don't really want to be tossed out next time they're up. They're hoping people will not notice this is happening or will not realize its effect until much later, and on not being blamed for it by the folks that do notice and care. We should all be making it clear that not only do we know and care about this, we also don't buy that Congress is powerless.

noobermin 9y ago
You know, if this was true, half of congress wouldn't be there. You forget about gerrymandering and establishment party politics keeping people who are amiable to telecoms in power.

Alex3917 9y ago

> The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneidermann or anyone else can do about it. If the FCC is cooperating with criminals to cover up fraud, can they be RICO'd?

inetknght 9y ago

> The sad reality is there's not much we, Eric Schneidermann or anyone else can do about it. If Ajit Pai continues to obstruct investigations, I would consider it obstruction of justice. That's something that an Attorney General should seriously consider in the current light.

marcoperaza 9y ago
A state AG has no authority to investigate a federal official for his official actions. The federal government is the superior sovereign and has the sole power to police itself. This is nothing but political grandstanding by Schneidermann.
dragonwriter 9y ago
It's not obstruction because of federal supremacy; given the normal level of voluntary cooperation, it's bizarre that there is no cooperation, and suggests that the fraud is not just an outside fraud on the FCC but a fraud by the FCC (whether originally or merely one convenient to and retrospectively ratified by the agency.) But there is little a state AG can do in that case except publicize the issue. Well, relating to the identity misappropriation itself. Should there be litigation over the final regulation (as is near certain) and should the content of public comment and the FCC’s handling of it be an issue (as is also near certain), then things become a lot more interesting.
npsimons 9y ago
> If Ajit Pai continues to obstruct investigations, I would consider it obstruction of justice. That's something that an Attorney General should seriously consider in the current light. My recurring thought as I read the fine article: "you're an attorney general, a lawyer who has asked politely, multiple times and been ignored; why TF haven't you filed for a subpoena yet?"

ghrifter 9y ago

Most commissioners for all sorts of branches/govmt arms come from the private sector... However, being from Verizon is noticeable.