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Disappointed to hear this after I just finished reading Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull (Pixar's main founder and graphics pioneer) which attributes Pixar's cont

Disappointed to hear this after I just finished reading Creativity, Inc. by Ed Catmull (Pixar's main founder and graphics pioneer) which attributes Pixar's continued success mostly to a culture of extreme candor and honesty... Considering how long this was an issue I guess some things are too good to be true.

vernie 9y ago
If you want to be let down further check out the industry-wide wage fixing that Catmull actively participated in.
- briankelly 9y ago
  Thanks for the heads up - some articles for those that are interested: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/ed-catmull-on-wage-fixing-i-dont-apologize-for-this-105855.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/ed-catmull-on-wage-... http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerges-as-central-figure-in-the-wage-fixing-scandal-101362.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerge...
digdig 9y ago
I worked at Pixar for three years back in the early 2010s, and that book is mostly hot air. There was not a culture of extreme candor or honesty, at least not in the department that writes all the core software.
- rootbear 9y ago
  I still haven't read it, but I really need to. I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s and thought that group functioned pretty well. I also never heard anything about John behaving badly, although it was generally acknowledged that he was a big kid and had to be tutored on things like good female characters. Reading this news about John has made me very sad. I wonder now if any of my female former coworkers were the subjects of unwanted attention from John. Sigh...
  - digdig 9y ago
    > female former coworkers I didn't hear anything about this through the grapevine, but then again Tools was probably 95% male at the time. > I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s Pour one out for menv! That was fun software to work on.
    - gt_ 9y ago
      OK I’m drooling reading comments from people who worked on that software at that time. Sounds like such a blast.
      - rootbear 9y ago
        I (mostly) loved working at Pixar. They have some of the smartest people I've ever met there. I'd love to say I worked on some amazing, cutting edge features of the animation software, but honestly, I think the most important thing I did was to update the code base from K&R C to ANSI C. It was excruciatingly tedious work and took forever, but it was a necessary pre-condition to using C++ in future components.
- briankelly 9y ago
  A lot of it did read like hot air, the best parts were definitely the historical anecdotes.
- andrewstuart 9y ago
  Management often think there is candor and honesty but they are completely unaware of the politics going on of the people below them in the hierarchy,
  - toomim 9y ago
    That's what the book said.
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  i haven't read the book yet, but it has been on my list. do you think that it's useful as something to shoot for? say everything in the book isn't truthful in reference to actual pixar conditions, but is it useful as an "idea of what could be"?
- nathankunicki 9y ago
  The perspective looking down is always different from that seen looking up.
JustAnotherPat 9y ago
Anyone who associated with that sociopath Steve Jobs was questionable in my book. I'm not surprised.
jansho 9y ago
Yes that book is one of my favourites. It really made me believe that you can build something big while maintaining a great culture for everyone. I thought the mostly awesome films were proof of this - what a fallacy. This news is very sad indeed.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
JabavuAdams 9y ago
I felt the same way when I learned that Catmull colluded in SV wage suppression.
sitkack 9y ago
Ed Catmull needs to be called out profusely for wage fixing http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerges-as-central-figure-in-the-wage-fixing-scandal-101362.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerge... Nice algorithms, good movies, dirtbag.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  I read an old article on how Steve Jobs got a Google recruiter fired for contacting an employee. What a piece of shit. Edit: found the link https://pando.com/2014/03/25/newly-unsealed-documents-show-steve-jobs-brutally-callous-response-after-getting-a-google-employee-fired/ https://pando.com/2014/03/25/newly-unsealed-documents-show-s...
  - blub 9y ago
    Thanks for that link, a list of all the assholes involved: * Steve Jobs / CEO * Eric Schmidt / CEO * Arnnon Ghesuri / HR * Shona Brown / HR They were all supporting these illegal practices and went unpunished.
    - sitkack 9y ago
      As part of the settlement, the judge should have required the boards of these companies to explain exactly how these employees were reprimanded. At the least they all should have been fired or forced to take a provable leave of absence for 2 years.
austincheney 9y ago
I once worked as the assistant knowledge manager for US Army Afghanistan Logistics. The whole point of that job was the evaluate and expose candor and honesty in the management. I can tell from experience there is very little candor or honesty unless there is a convention to specifically address that concern and that convention is continually supervised by a dedicated staff. The more challenging or bad things get the more true this becomes. The only staffs that doesn't have an honesty problem are those few rare groups who have largely automated away most of their daily work and fully exposed those automation processes for open evaluation. I suppose it is human nature that the more incompetent and lower confidence a staff section becomes the less honest and transparent they try to be. In reflection, candor is actually a really great measure of confidence and competence. The reason you need a dedicated convention and dedicated staff to solve this problem is because the boss never sees what the minions are hiding or what they fail to report unless somebody does a deep dive into their work and fully documents their efficiency and qualifies their quality of work.

vernie 9y ago

If you want to be let down further check out the industry-wide wage fixing that Catmull actively participated in.

briankelly 9y ago
Thanks for the heads up - some articles for those that are interested: http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/ed-catmull-on-wage-fixing-i-dont-apologize-for-this-105855.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/artist-rights/ed-catmull-on-wage-... http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerges-as-central-figure-in-the-wage-fixing-scandal-101362.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerge...

digdig 9y ago

I worked at Pixar for three years back in the early 2010s, and that book is mostly hot air. There was not a culture of extreme candor or honesty, at least not in the department that writes all the core software.

rootbear 9y ago
I still haven't read it, but I really need to. I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s and thought that group functioned pretty well. I also never heard anything about John behaving badly, although it was generally acknowledged that he was a big kid and had to be tutored on things like good female characters. Reading this news about John has made me very sad. I wonder now if any of my female former coworkers were the subjects of unwanted attention from John. Sigh...
- digdig 9y ago
  > female former coworkers I didn't hear anything about this through the grapevine, but then again Tools was probably 95% male at the time. > I was in the Studio Tools group in the late 90s Pour one out for menv! That was fun software to work on.
  - gt_ 9y ago
    OK I’m drooling reading comments from people who worked on that software at that time. Sounds like such a blast.
    - rootbear 9y ago
      I (mostly) loved working at Pixar. They have some of the smartest people I've ever met there. I'd love to say I worked on some amazing, cutting edge features of the animation software, but honestly, I think the most important thing I did was to update the code base from K&R C to ANSI C. It was excruciatingly tedious work and took forever, but it was a necessary pre-condition to using C++ in future components.
briankelly 9y ago
A lot of it did read like hot air, the best parts were definitely the historical anecdotes.
andrewstuart 9y ago
Management often think there is candor and honesty but they are completely unaware of the politics going on of the people below them in the hierarchy,
- toomim 9y ago
  That's what the book said.
nikofeyn 9y ago
i haven't read the book yet, but it has been on my list. do you think that it's useful as something to shoot for? say everything in the book isn't truthful in reference to actual pixar conditions, but is it useful as an "idea of what could be"?
nathankunicki 9y ago
The perspective looking down is always different from that seen looking up.

JustAnotherPat 9y ago

Anyone who associated with that sociopath Steve Jobs was questionable in my book. I'm not surprised.

jansho 9y ago

Yes that book is one of my favourites. It really made me believe that you can build something big while maintaining a great culture for everyone. I thought the mostly awesome films were proof of this - what a fallacy. This news is very sad indeed.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

JabavuAdams 9y ago

I felt the same way when I learned that Catmull colluded in SV wage suppression.

sitkack 9y ago

Ed Catmull needs to be called out profusely for wage fixing http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerges-as-central-figure-in-the-wage-fixing-scandal-101362.html http://www.cartoonbrew.com/business/pixars-ed-catmull-emerge... Nice algorithms, good movies, dirtbag.

kelukelugames 9y ago
I read an old article on how Steve Jobs got a Google recruiter fired for contacting an employee. What a piece of shit. Edit: found the link https://pando.com/2014/03/25/newly-unsealed-documents-show-steve-jobs-brutally-callous-response-after-getting-a-google-employee-fired/ https://pando.com/2014/03/25/newly-unsealed-documents-show-s...
- blub 9y ago
  Thanks for that link, a list of all the assholes involved: * Steve Jobs / CEO * Eric Schmidt / CEO * Arnnon Ghesuri / HR * Shona Brown / HR They were all supporting these illegal practices and went unpunished.
  - sitkack 9y ago
    As part of the settlement, the judge should have required the boards of these companies to explain exactly how these employees were reprimanded. At the least they all should have been fired or forced to take a provable leave of absence for 2 years.

austincheney 9y ago

I once worked as the assistant knowledge manager for US Army Afghanistan Logistics. The whole point of that job was the evaluate and expose candor and honesty in the management. I can tell from experience there is very little candor or honesty unless there is a convention to specifically address that concern and that convention is continually supervised by a dedicated staff. The more challenging or bad things get the more true this becomes. The only staffs that doesn't have an honesty problem are those few rare groups who have largely automated away most of their daily work and fully exposed those automation processes for open evaluation. I suppose it is human nature that the more incompetent and lower confidence a staff section becomes the less honest and transparent they try to be. In reflection, candor is actually a really great measure of confidence and competence. The reason you need a dedicated convention and dedicated staff to solve this problem is because the boss never sees what the minions are hiding or what they fail to report unless somebody does a deep dive into their work and fully documents their efficiency and qualifies their quality of work.