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Ever since Susan Fowler told her story about what happened to her at Uber, I have only used Lyft, and have encouraged all my friends to do the same. I plan to

Ever since Susan Fowler told her story about what happened to her at Uber, I have only used Lyft, and have encouraged all my friends to do the same. I plan to never use Uber again.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
rlabrecque 9y ago
When I deactivated my account it was a huge pain, I had to reply to 2 emails, and in the end it took 5 days to complete. That alone annoyed me enough to never go back.
- linkregister 9y ago
  The current deletion process is smooth and can be completed in-app.
  - adjkant 9y ago
    From the experience of two of my friends in the past month, they had that in-app system "error" and had to do the same emails and 5-day level delay.
  - euyyn 9y ago
    Why bother? I just deleted the app and forgot about it. Is there something I should know?
    - kelnos 9y ago
      IIRC you can't remove all payment methods from the app, so just deleting the app will leave your credit card information in their hands. Also all your previous ride data will still be on their servers. Both of these things could be lost in a data breach, and presumably account deletion deletes this data.
      - nikcub 9y ago
        Deleting your account at Uber doesn't delete ride info[0] In a lot of cases companies still leave behind an email stub to prevent users signing up over and over again for signup deals The only way to ensure your data is safe is to never hand it over in the first place - signup with a fake name, prepaid card, etc. [0] https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a
        linkregister 9y ago
        I didn't see any mention of ride info in that link, maybe the text has changed since you posted it. It is frustrating that the page doesn't enumerate what information is deleted and what's retained.
        londons_explore 9y ago
        In the EU, data protection rules mean they must delete all user data on request. That means every day I'm a new customer and get $20 off my first ride of $22. One day, they'll wise up and stop making such silly deals.
        alsetmusic 9y ago
        > In the EU, data protection rules mean they must delete all user data on request. That means every day I'm a new customer and get $20 off my first ride of $22. One day, they'll wise up and stop making such silly deals. The behavior described here is extremely selfish and amoral. It amounts to gaming the system. Additionally, the cost of exploiting a loophole such as this will be passed on to other customers before the company stops offering a losing deal. Those customers will not be reimbursed when the offer is rescinded. The antisocial behavior of the company would not excuse the antisocial behavior of a user acting in this way.
      - LethargicStud 9y ago
        I _really_ hope they let braintree handle that and don't touch PANs. If they do store PANs, presumably they'd be audited and hopefully would store them more securely. But hey, I guess you never know and less exposure is always better.
    - linkregister 9y ago
      You may or may not want to remove your information, especially if you change phones. Someone getting your phone number could charge rides to your account if you don't unlink your credit card information. It's also good hygiene to delete accounts. I don't typically do it, but when a company offers an easy delete button, I won't refuse.
  - paul7986 9y ago
    Wasn't like that when Uber let my account get hacked and 1k was stolen from me. When that happened I went searching for answers and found UBer blaming it's users for their lack of security. Further I immediately wanted to cancel my account .. chop off it's head/the source but had to wait days for Uber to delete my account. They are worst then Comcast and sorry need burn through all their VC money til they are ashes! Loathe Uber so much!
partycoder 9y ago
Same here. That and that video from the driver that bought a black car to drive it for Uber and ended up in massive debt.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tabeth 9y ago
You'll find that thinking like that will only lead to misery at worst and hypocrisy at best. For example, if you live in the United States (though this logic applies to any country, really), you'll be interested to know that the US holds the world record for the amount innocent civilians killed [1]. [1] https://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-holds-the-world-record-of-killings-innocent-civilians/5393789 https://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-holds-the-world-record-of-... EDIT: I realize I sound far more judge-y than intended in these posts. My overall point is that people should just do whatever makes 'em happy while doing the best you can (w.r.t. everything else). Trying to emphasize the morality in your actions is just wrong, imo.
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  Don’t let hypocrisy stop you from doing the right thing. Sometimes you need to climb one tree to cut down another.[1] That’s ok. [1] tbh I don’t think you do, but I like the analogy so I’m keeping it.
  - tabeth 9y ago
    I disagree. One needs to be consistent in their actions, otherwise, what's the point? Two wrongs don't make a right, after all. EDIT: Er, I agree that hypocrisy shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing.
    - nothrabannosir 9y ago
      Consistency is absolutely impossible, as you already alluded to. It’s not a bad move to assess the current position, accept it for what it is, and improve it bit by bit. Pick your battles. Two wrongs don’t make a right when you try to sum them, I.e. combine them. My point is: don’t compare them at all. Don’t change the subject. Uber is one, other things are another. Being a hypocrite doesn’t make you wrong, it just makes you a hypocrite. Don’t even pull in the other wrong to begin with. Otherwise, how do you ever justify standing up for anything you believe in? I was born a hypocrite, surely a life of mute acquiescence can’t be my destiny?
LeoPanthera 9y ago
I also do this where possible, but Lyft doesn't operate outside the US. I wish they would launch in the UK, at least.
Musonius 9y ago
Only reason I use them is because of Uber Green, otherwise I use Cabify and tell everyone to do the same.
misun78 9y ago
Uber employee chiming in - while I entirely sympathize with HN's frustrations around our ethics and can't really justify our actions around this data breach, it is very much worth noting that Lyft would not exist were it not for Uber's extremely aggressive practices. There were/are far too many protectionist policies at play at most locales that -- not out of pure coincidence -- needed a company as aggressive as Uber to pave the path for a better option for both riders and drivers (over existing taxis). We fought all the battles, took a hit on our reputation and set it up nicely for Lyft who very smartly played along with the nice guy approach to capitalize. Net-net, no Uber would have most likely meant existing taxis everywhere and as most riders/drivers will tell you, there is nothing inherently better about either app, they offer the same, pay the same but vastly differ in perception. That said, we took our aggressive attitude way too far. In an ideal world, Travis would have evolved or replaced himself a couple of years back once the company essentially reached escape velocity where our consumers themselves became our most fervent supporters. Unfortunately that did not play out and making a near perfect switch like that is probably unlikely. Given this important context, I hope you will give Uber another chance as in the end, Dara and the employees are genuinely trying to evolve by doing the right things and putting all of this behind us. You can get some sense of this from going to sites like reddit.com/r/uberdrivers (or r/lyft) and seeing the changing perception at least from the driver side of things.
- deleted 9y ago
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- deleted 9y ago
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- randlet 9y ago
  Are you saying the end justify the means? The problem is that over and over and over we see companies breaking the rules, reaping massive rewards as a result of unethical practices, saying "sorry" and then carrying on with no real consequences. It sets a horrible precedent and unless people start being punished instead of rewarded(!!!) for their actions nothing will change.
- d3ad1ysp0rk 9y ago
nichochar 9y ago
Good, it's important to judge a company of 10k people on one person's story. That's usually a great strategy. I'm not defending uber, but this kind of attitude is exactly what got Trump elected. You can't generalize and demonize entities based on one person's view.
- lavezzi 9y ago
  You might have a point if this was a different company, but look at the context - it's Uber. Probably one of the outright most scummiest companies out there.
- komaromy 9y ago
  > this kind of attitude is exactly what got Trump elected Not really seeing the connection here
wpietri 9y ago
And I'd encourage any hiring manager to ask some pointed questions of anybody who has Uber on their resume. Maybe they're a good or naive person who just happened to end up in a bad place. But maybe they're willing to turn a blind eye to discrimination, harassment, or lawbreaking.
- CryptoPunk 9y ago
  Uber is one of the fastest growing companies in the world, and it did an enormous amount of good in challenging laws prohibiting voluntary exchange and in expanding transportation options (which had benefits that included reducing DUI), while making many serious mistakes. I don't think it can be characterized as a "bad place", and I don't think many hiring managers will consider having experience at Uber a black mark. Quite the opposite.

Ever since Susan Fowler told her story about what happened to her at Uber, I have only used Lyft, and have encouraged all my friends to do the same. I plan to never use Uber again.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

rlabrecque 9y ago

When I deactivated my account it was a huge pain, I had to reply to 2 emails, and in the end it took 5 days to complete. That alone annoyed me enough to never go back.

linkregister 9y ago
The current deletion process is smooth and can be completed in-app.
- adjkant 9y ago
  From the experience of two of my friends in the past month, they had that in-app system "error" and had to do the same emails and 5-day level delay.
- euyyn 9y ago
  Why bother? I just deleted the app and forgot about it. Is there something I should know?
  - kelnos 9y ago
    IIRC you can't remove all payment methods from the app, so just deleting the app will leave your credit card information in their hands. Also all your previous ride data will still be on their servers. Both of these things could be lost in a data breach, and presumably account deletion deletes this data.
    - nikcub 9y ago
      Deleting your account at Uber doesn't delete ride info[0] In a lot of cases companies still leave behind an email stub to prevent users signing up over and over again for signup deals The only way to ensure your data is safe is to never hand it over in the first place - signup with a fake name, prepaid card, etc. [0] https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a https://help.uber.com/h/24010fe7-7a67-4ee5-9938-c734000b144a
      - linkregister 9y ago
        I didn't see any mention of ride info in that link, maybe the text has changed since you posted it. It is frustrating that the page doesn't enumerate what information is deleted and what's retained.
      - londons_explore 9y ago
        In the EU, data protection rules mean they must delete all user data on request. That means every day I'm a new customer and get $20 off my first ride of $22. One day, they'll wise up and stop making such silly deals.
        alsetmusic 9y ago
        > In the EU, data protection rules mean they must delete all user data on request. That means every day I'm a new customer and get $20 off my first ride of $22. One day, they'll wise up and stop making such silly deals. The behavior described here is extremely selfish and amoral. It amounts to gaming the system. Additionally, the cost of exploiting a loophole such as this will be passed on to other customers before the company stops offering a losing deal. Those customers will not be reimbursed when the offer is rescinded. The antisocial behavior of the company would not excuse the antisocial behavior of a user acting in this way.
    - LethargicStud 9y ago
      I _really_ hope they let braintree handle that and don't touch PANs. If they do store PANs, presumably they'd be audited and hopefully would store them more securely. But hey, I guess you never know and less exposure is always better.
  - linkregister 9y ago
    You may or may not want to remove your information, especially if you change phones. Someone getting your phone number could charge rides to your account if you don't unlink your credit card information. It's also good hygiene to delete accounts. I don't typically do it, but when a company offers an easy delete button, I won't refuse.
- paul7986 9y ago
  Wasn't like that when Uber let my account get hacked and 1k was stolen from me. When that happened I went searching for answers and found UBer blaming it's users for their lack of security. Further I immediately wanted to cancel my account .. chop off it's head/the source but had to wait days for Uber to delete my account. They are worst then Comcast and sorry need burn through all their VC money til they are ashes! Loathe Uber so much!

partycoder 9y ago

Same here. That and that video from the driver that bought a black car to drive it for Uber and ended up in massive debt.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

tabeth 9y ago

You'll find that thinking like that will only lead to misery at worst and hypocrisy at best. For example, if you live in the United States (though this logic applies to any country, really), you'll be interested to know that the US holds the world record for the amount innocent civilians killed [1]. [1] https://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-holds-the-world-record-of-killings-innocent-civilians/5393789 https://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-holds-the-world-record-of-... EDIT: I realize I sound far more judge-y than intended in these posts. My overall point is that people should just do whatever makes 'em happy while doing the best you can (w.r.t. everything else). Trying to emphasize the morality in your actions is just wrong, imo.

nothrabannosir 9y ago
Don’t let hypocrisy stop you from doing the right thing. Sometimes you need to climb one tree to cut down another.[1] That’s ok. [1] tbh I don’t think you do, but I like the analogy so I’m keeping it.
- tabeth 9y ago
  I disagree. One needs to be consistent in their actions, otherwise, what's the point? Two wrongs don't make a right, after all. EDIT: Er, I agree that hypocrisy shouldn't stop you from doing the right thing.
  - nothrabannosir 9y ago
    Consistency is absolutely impossible, as you already alluded to. It’s not a bad move to assess the current position, accept it for what it is, and improve it bit by bit. Pick your battles. Two wrongs don’t make a right when you try to sum them, I.e. combine them. My point is: don’t compare them at all. Don’t change the subject. Uber is one, other things are another. Being a hypocrite doesn’t make you wrong, it just makes you a hypocrite. Don’t even pull in the other wrong to begin with. Otherwise, how do you ever justify standing up for anything you believe in? I was born a hypocrite, surely a life of mute acquiescence can’t be my destiny?

LeoPanthera 9y ago

I also do this where possible, but Lyft doesn't operate outside the US. I wish they would launch in the UK, at least.

Musonius 9y ago

Only reason I use them is because of Uber Green, otherwise I use Cabify and tell everyone to do the same.

misun78 9y ago

Uber employee chiming in - while I entirely sympathize with HN's frustrations around our ethics and can't really justify our actions around this data breach, it is very much worth noting that Lyft would not exist were it not for Uber's extremely aggressive practices. There were/are far too many protectionist policies at play at most locales that -- not out of pure coincidence -- needed a company as aggressive as Uber to pave the path for a better option for both riders and drivers (over existing taxis). We fought all the battles, took a hit on our reputation and set it up nicely for Lyft who very smartly played along with the nice guy approach to capitalize. Net-net, no Uber would have most likely meant existing taxis everywhere and as most riders/drivers will tell you, there is nothing inherently better about either app, they offer the same, pay the same but vastly differ in perception. That said, we took our aggressive attitude way too far. In an ideal world, Travis would have evolved or replaced himself a couple of years back once the company essentially reached escape velocity where our consumers themselves became our most fervent supporters. Unfortunately that did not play out and making a near perfect switch like that is probably unlikely. Given this important context, I hope you will give Uber another chance as in the end, Dara and the employees are genuinely trying to evolve by doing the right things and putting all of this behind us. You can get some sense of this from going to sites like reddit.com/r/uberdrivers (or r/lyft) and seeing the changing perception at least from the driver side of things.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
randlet 9y ago
Are you saying the end justify the means? The problem is that over and over and over we see companies breaking the rules, reaping massive rewards as a result of unethical practices, saying "sorry" and then carrying on with no real consequences. It sets a horrible precedent and unless people start being punished instead of rewarded(!!!) for their actions nothing will change.
d3ad1ysp0rk 9y ago

nichochar 9y ago

Good, it's important to judge a company of 10k people on one person's story. That's usually a great strategy. I'm not defending uber, but this kind of attitude is exactly what got Trump elected. You can't generalize and demonize entities based on one person's view.

lavezzi 9y ago
You might have a point if this was a different company, but look at the context - it's Uber. Probably one of the outright most scummiest companies out there.
komaromy 9y ago
> this kind of attitude is exactly what got Trump elected Not really seeing the connection here

wpietri 9y ago

And I'd encourage any hiring manager to ask some pointed questions of anybody who has Uber on their resume. Maybe they're a good or naive person who just happened to end up in a bad place. But maybe they're willing to turn a blind eye to discrimination, harassment, or lawbreaking.

CryptoPunk 9y ago
Uber is one of the fastest growing companies in the world, and it did an enormous amount of good in challenging laws prohibiting voluntary exchange and in expanding transportation options (which had benefits that included reducing DUI), while making many serious mistakes. I don't think it can be characterized as a "bad place", and I don't think many hiring managers will consider having experience at Uber a black mark. Quite the opposite.