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Has anyone considered the possibility that people won't want to trust their lives to self driving cars? We've had self checkouts at the supermarket for ages now

Has anyone considered the possibility that people won't want to trust their lives to self driving cars? We've had self checkouts at the supermarket for ages now and they still give problems with unusual situations. When people think of the infamous "please put your item in the bagging area" might they not get nervous about trusting their life to soemthing else autonomous?

ptmcc 9y ago
Those damn things give me problems in totally usual situations, let alone unusual ones.
- w0m 9y ago
  Like what? Only issue i've seen is they're a bit tentative/slow on 5 way intersections and they (stubbornly) don't speed.
  - ams6110 9y ago
    > they (stubbornly) don't speed Thus causing road rage among drivers unfortunate enough to be following one. I get the same feeling when I'm stuck behind a bicyclist.
- bsder 9y ago
  Most of those kinds of bagging systems have gotten much better about the whole "detection of bagging." However, most of the time, the issue with self-checkout is the HUMAN, not the machine. Several extremely busy grocery stores near me ripped out self-checkout systems because it affected throughput too much. They went back to cashiers because the cashiers are A) faster and B) capable of judging situations for throughput ("Um, grandma, really, we don't need you to take 5 minutes to find two pennies for that $20.02 grocery bill. Have a nice day. NEXT!") Amazon, unusually, has this one right. A self-checkout system CANNOT rely on the customer doing anything right.
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Having a few self-checkout stations in a grocery store is generally OK if they're effectively for people who have dashed into the store to pick up one of two barcoded items. They're horrible when the store has used them to replace most of their cashiers because they're slow to use for a lot of items, are very slow to use for produce, etc. I still find detection of bagging is often a pain with self-checkout. I expect things are set up to err on the side of falsely detecting potentially unpaid items. Perhaps, at some point, vision systems will make it easier to not require cashiers but it doesn't work all that well today for large supermarkets.
- ptmcc 9y ago
  If you are buying more than a small handful of things, they continually beep and complain about the bagging area as things shift around or have to get moved to make room. And even worse if you are using your own bags.
rkho 9y ago
You mean like elevators?
- DoingIsLearning 9y ago
  As a system an elevator is working in a infinitely more controlled environment when compared to a driverless car please consider these problem areas: -Localisation and perception in all matter of conditions e.g. terrain or wheather changes, interaction with traffic, pedestrian behaviour, unexpected or unclassified agents (road works, car stopped in the middle lane of a highway) - Vehicle dynamics sensing, vehicle diagnostics. Any bog standard car will have in excess of 30+ control units (from micro controllers to full on embedded computers). How do you keep tabs on all of them, which one's can you trust, if my LIDAR says I'm good but my RADAR false triggers on a low beam tunnel which one is accurate? Should I slam the brakes or should I drive through what could be a front collision? - Actuation, how smooth is smooth? I can be within the speed limit and stil scare the crap out of you driving above an "adequate" speed for the environment, you can brake with an ABS pump far better than a human can and avoid a collision at all cost, but the G forces involved would probably snap the neck of everyone in the car, what would be the acceptable outcome in that instance? There is a lot of complexity in all of this and realistically the only way you can trust the current levels of driverless is by limiting/controlling the environments they are allowed to be enabled in. Edit: paragraphs
w0m 9y ago
Living in an area with self-driving ubers running about; I think there will be a checkbox on the app, 'Self Driving?' If you click Yes, could get a self driving car (and it'll be faster/cheaper/safer), click No and it'll be the same experience as previous (though probably with a bit more lag as self driving will crowd out a bit of the existing car fleet). For at least a number of years it'll be more supplementary than anything for areas with low Uber driver counts.
Pirate-of-SV 9y ago
The meaning of self in self driving and self checkout is different. They are more or less the exact opposite. In the first case the machine is doing something itself, in the other case you do something yourself.
bsder 9y ago
> Has anyone considered the possibility that people won't want to trust their lives to self driving cars? Has anyone considered that the average driver sucks? And that 50% of the drivers are worse than that? Self-driving cars have a very low bar to clear (better than average human), and they will probably clear that fairly soon given just how bad normal drivers are. Once self-driving cars are deployed, it's simply a matter of crunching the data on more and more unusual situations.
- lafar6502 9y ago
  Until you’re in collision with an Uber robotic car and suddenly it’s you against their billion dollar lawyer army
  - photojosh 9y ago
    It's your insurer and their lawyers against their billion dollar lawyer army. I'll get the popcorn. I'd also recommend getting dashcams if you don't already.
    - lafar6502 9y ago
      Well, good luck First, the insurer needs to have a lawful decision on who is guilty - it is not their job to prove anything. And it's still you vs huge corporation. Looking at what these companies (Tesla for example) do to people criticizing their products - full spectrum, from lie accusations through personal attacks to law threats, i'd say even if you have a recording the situation is still bad. So, we're going to get a confirmation what you just said - their lawyers will do everything to prove you suck as a driver.
ilaksh 9y ago
Many people will not trust them. Within a few years though there will be hard data showing that the human drivers are significantly less safe and reliable and at least some places will outlaw human drivers.

ptmcc 9y ago

Those damn things give me problems in totally usual situations, let alone unusual ones.

w0m 9y ago
Like what? Only issue i've seen is they're a bit tentative/slow on 5 way intersections and they (stubbornly) don't speed.
- ams6110 9y ago
  > they (stubbornly) don't speed Thus causing road rage among drivers unfortunate enough to be following one. I get the same feeling when I'm stuck behind a bicyclist.
bsder 9y ago
Most of those kinds of bagging systems have gotten much better about the whole "detection of bagging." However, most of the time, the issue with self-checkout is the HUMAN, not the machine. Several extremely busy grocery stores near me ripped out self-checkout systems because it affected throughput too much. They went back to cashiers because the cashiers are A) faster and B) capable of judging situations for throughput ("Um, grandma, really, we don't need you to take 5 minutes to find two pennies for that $20.02 grocery bill. Have a nice day. NEXT!") Amazon, unusually, has this one right. A self-checkout system CANNOT rely on the customer doing anything right.
- ghaff 9y ago
  Having a few self-checkout stations in a grocery store is generally OK if they're effectively for people who have dashed into the store to pick up one of two barcoded items. They're horrible when the store has used them to replace most of their cashiers because they're slow to use for a lot of items, are very slow to use for produce, etc. I still find detection of bagging is often a pain with self-checkout. I expect things are set up to err on the side of falsely detecting potentially unpaid items. Perhaps, at some point, vision systems will make it easier to not require cashiers but it doesn't work all that well today for large supermarkets.
ptmcc 9y ago
If you are buying more than a small handful of things, they continually beep and complain about the bagging area as things shift around or have to get moved to make room. And even worse if you are using your own bags.

rkho 9y ago

You mean like elevators?

DoingIsLearning 9y ago
As a system an elevator is working in a infinitely more controlled environment when compared to a driverless car please consider these problem areas: -Localisation and perception in all matter of conditions e.g. terrain or wheather changes, interaction with traffic, pedestrian behaviour, unexpected or unclassified agents (road works, car stopped in the middle lane of a highway) - Vehicle dynamics sensing, vehicle diagnostics. Any bog standard car will have in excess of 30+ control units (from micro controllers to full on embedded computers). How do you keep tabs on all of them, which one's can you trust, if my LIDAR says I'm good but my RADAR false triggers on a low beam tunnel which one is accurate? Should I slam the brakes or should I drive through what could be a front collision? - Actuation, how smooth is smooth? I can be within the speed limit and stil scare the crap out of you driving above an "adequate" speed for the environment, you can brake with an ABS pump far better than a human can and avoid a collision at all cost, but the G forces involved would probably snap the neck of everyone in the car, what would be the acceptable outcome in that instance? There is a lot of complexity in all of this and realistically the only way you can trust the current levels of driverless is by limiting/controlling the environments they are allowed to be enabled in. Edit: paragraphs

w0m 9y ago

Living in an area with self-driving ubers running about; I think there will be a checkbox on the app, 'Self Driving?' If you click Yes, could get a self driving car (and it'll be faster/cheaper/safer), click No and it'll be the same experience as previous (though probably with a bit more lag as self driving will crowd out a bit of the existing car fleet). For at least a number of years it'll be more supplementary than anything for areas with low Uber driver counts.

Pirate-of-SV 9y ago

The meaning of self in self driving and self checkout is different. They are more or less the exact opposite. In the first case the machine is doing something itself, in the other case you do something yourself.

bsder 9y ago

> Has anyone considered the possibility that people won't want to trust their lives to self driving cars? Has anyone considered that the average driver sucks? And that 50% of the drivers are worse than that? Self-driving cars have a very low bar to clear (better than average human), and they will probably clear that fairly soon given just how bad normal drivers are. Once self-driving cars are deployed, it's simply a matter of crunching the data on more and more unusual situations.

lafar6502 9y ago
Until you’re in collision with an Uber robotic car and suddenly it’s you against their billion dollar lawyer army
- photojosh 9y ago
  It's your insurer and their lawyers against their billion dollar lawyer army. I'll get the popcorn. I'd also recommend getting dashcams if you don't already.
  - lafar6502 9y ago
    Well, good luck First, the insurer needs to have a lawful decision on who is guilty - it is not their job to prove anything. And it's still you vs huge corporation. Looking at what these companies (Tesla for example) do to people criticizing their products - full spectrum, from lie accusations through personal attacks to law threats, i'd say even if you have a recording the situation is still bad. So, we're going to get a confirmation what you just said - their lawyers will do everything to prove you suck as a driver.

ilaksh 9y ago

Many people will not trust them. Within a few years though there will be hard data showing that the human drivers are significantly less safe and reliable and at least some places will outlaw human drivers.