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For a Chinese person living in China, her English is very good (compare to the English of the merchants in the same video). There are very few e.g. Americans li

For a Chinese person living in China, her English is very good (compare to the English of the merchants in the same video). There are very few e.g. Americans living in the US with similarly good Chinese.

seanmcdirmid 9y ago
Try visiting Salt Lake City. You’ll be very surprised.
- jacobolus 9y ago
  Yes, people who are highly motivated and go through months of intensive language immersion training followed by several years of immersive missionary work in a foreign country – where their full-time job and religious obligation is literally talking to strangers all day long – tend to learn the language quite well. Why would I be surprised about that? What does that have to do with Wu? Presumably she never went through any similar experience, and her language skills have been largely driven by her own personal desire to communicate with foreigners rather than any structured program or religious duty. (I don’t know much about her, so maybe that’s wrong.)
  - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
    You made a weird unfounded comment and I replied. And no, none of it’s very related in both cases.
    - jacobolus 9y ago
      Huh? Why is it a weird comment? The previous commenter said her English was bad. I think her English is quite impressively good! Kudos to her. It’s hard work to learn a foreign language to such proficiency. She has better English than many foreigners I know who have been living in the US for >5 years, and better than the foreign language skills of many Americans I know who have lived overseas for that long.
      - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        Ya, I do also. But it isn’t weird, it hasn’t been for a long time. Likewise for Americans speaking great 大山 quality Chinese, not weird or unusual anymore.
        cromwellian 9y ago
        It's still rare enough that 老外 speaking good Chinese gains you attention in Chinese media. Lots of Chinese TV contains foreign guests whose only skill is speaking Chinese, and if you travel to a tier-3 city or other area, speaking any level of Chinese can produce visible surprise and compliment in people. Imagine a US TV show that invited on Chinese natives for no other reason than they could speak passable English. I'm pretty sure you know this. Yes, in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, it is not uncommon. But go to a smaller city, and some people will treat you like a rare Panda. I was in 九寨沟 one time during 清明节 and a lot of out of town people were there on vacation, some of who had never met a 外国人 in person before, but after they heard me speaking, a lot of people kept coming up and asking to have a photo with me, offering too much praise for my terrible Mandarin, and intensely curious how I learned. I'm glad to see so many people following in the footsteps of 大山， but we have a ways to go before the asymmetry is more balanced and a Westerner speaking Chinese is no longer surprising enough to be on a talent show.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        I mentioned SLC for a good reason, and it has little to do with mainland China since they don’t allow missionaries. If you go to Taiwan, you’ll find, compared to the population, more foreigners speaking mandarin. China has no problem finding foreigners who speak good Chinese like they did in the 90s. Likewise, they are a bit unnerved when the American ambassador speaks fluent mandarin like Huntsman did, or like various prime ministers of austrailia are ought to these days. They definitely exist, and if some random white (or black or Indian, etc...) guy/gal breaks out mandarin in some random context, well, it really isn’t amazing anymore. If you visit a tier 88 city in china, the fact that you are a foreigner at all is amazing, this has little to do with your mandarin skills. Now hit the bath house with them and it’s double amazing.
  - cromwellian 9y ago
    Wu's major in college was English so it's not unexpected. I work with many Chinese engineers, my wife's Chinese. She spoke pretty good English when she arrived in the US 20 years ago, and her dad, who lived in China most of his life, also speaks good English, but was trained as an engineer. I think the OP is correct that it is far more likely to find white collar mainland Chinese with a good command of English than it is to find a Westerner with a good command of Mandarin. The reasons are really simple: 1) English is taught in school from a early age. In US schools, Mandarin usually wasn't an option until very recently, mostly Spanish, French, German, and Japanese were the standard choices. 2) English is the defacto international lingua franca. English speakers can live their whole life and not really have to learn another language to consume most of the world's published information and trade. However, Chinese speakers often need to know English to consume the output of other countries. If you need to need read an AI paper, it's most likely published in English, and unless the original authors were Chinese, they're not likely to have published a good translation. Given the importance of the Chinese economy, I expect the next generation will change this asymmetry somewhat. Already many schools in California offer Mandarin immersion, and it seems even more common these days to see Australians who can speak good Mandarin.
  - CydeWeys 9y ago
    What point are you trying to prove here? It's not like English is some magical language that no one can possibly learn well if they didn't grow up speaking it. Go to Europe and you'll find millions of people who aren't native English speakers but nevertheless speak it excellently. In the grand scheme of things, being able to learn another language well does not beggar belief. In the context of this discussion, your comments are leaving a sour taste in my mouth. She's been questioned enough already.
    - jacobolus 9y ago
      I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m just saying her English seems quite a bit better than average. (My wife is Chinese and has very good English, as do many of her friends. I by no means think Chinese people are generally incapable of learning English or anything.) I thought my point was pretty obvious and simple. There are sure a lot of people here with sticks up their butts.
Taniwha 9y ago
I've met Chinese people in China with accents that to me said "valley girl", I honestly thought they came from LA. Far fewer Americans are taught Mandarin, and even fewer from an early enough age that they can master tones easily (I suspect that like Danish vowels you almost need to be born into it)
- kelnos 9y ago
  The tones themselves aren't hard (it's mainly just altering the pitch of the sounds you make in different ways); the pronunciation issues come from actual sounds that English speakers just don't make.
  - Taniwha 9y ago
    That's kind of the point - they are sounds you learn well as a 1 year old, not so easy (in my case) at 50

seanmcdirmid 9y ago

Try visiting Salt Lake City. You’ll be very surprised.

jacobolus 9y ago
Yes, people who are highly motivated and go through months of intensive language immersion training followed by several years of immersive missionary work in a foreign country – where their full-time job and religious obligation is literally talking to strangers all day long – tend to learn the language quite well. Why would I be surprised about that? What does that have to do with Wu? Presumably she never went through any similar experience, and her language skills have been largely driven by her own personal desire to communicate with foreigners rather than any structured program or religious duty. (I don’t know much about her, so maybe that’s wrong.)
- seanmcdirmid 9y ago
  You made a weird unfounded comment and I replied. And no, none of it’s very related in both cases.
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    Huh? Why is it a weird comment? The previous commenter said her English was bad. I think her English is quite impressively good! Kudos to her. It’s hard work to learn a foreign language to such proficiency. She has better English than many foreigners I know who have been living in the US for >5 years, and better than the foreign language skills of many Americans I know who have lived overseas for that long.
    - seanmcdirmid 9y ago
      Ya, I do also. But it isn’t weird, it hasn’t been for a long time. Likewise for Americans speaking great 大山 quality Chinese, not weird or unusual anymore.
      - cromwellian 9y ago
        It's still rare enough that 老外 speaking good Chinese gains you attention in Chinese media. Lots of Chinese TV contains foreign guests whose only skill is speaking Chinese, and if you travel to a tier-3 city or other area, speaking any level of Chinese can produce visible surprise and compliment in people. Imagine a US TV show that invited on Chinese natives for no other reason than they could speak passable English. I'm pretty sure you know this. Yes, in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, it is not uncommon. But go to a smaller city, and some people will treat you like a rare Panda. I was in 九寨沟 one time during 清明节 and a lot of out of town people were there on vacation, some of who had never met a 外国人 in person before, but after they heard me speaking, a lot of people kept coming up and asking to have a photo with me, offering too much praise for my terrible Mandarin, and intensely curious how I learned. I'm glad to see so many people following in the footsteps of 大山， but we have a ways to go before the asymmetry is more balanced and a Westerner speaking Chinese is no longer surprising enough to be on a talent show.
        seanmcdirmid 9y ago
        I mentioned SLC for a good reason, and it has little to do with mainland China since they don’t allow missionaries. If you go to Taiwan, you’ll find, compared to the population, more foreigners speaking mandarin. China has no problem finding foreigners who speak good Chinese like they did in the 90s. Likewise, they are a bit unnerved when the American ambassador speaks fluent mandarin like Huntsman did, or like various prime ministers of austrailia are ought to these days. They definitely exist, and if some random white (or black or Indian, etc...) guy/gal breaks out mandarin in some random context, well, it really isn’t amazing anymore. If you visit a tier 88 city in china, the fact that you are a foreigner at all is amazing, this has little to do with your mandarin skills. Now hit the bath house with them and it’s double amazing.
- cromwellian 9y ago
  Wu's major in college was English so it's not unexpected. I work with many Chinese engineers, my wife's Chinese. She spoke pretty good English when she arrived in the US 20 years ago, and her dad, who lived in China most of his life, also speaks good English, but was trained as an engineer. I think the OP is correct that it is far more likely to find white collar mainland Chinese with a good command of English than it is to find a Westerner with a good command of Mandarin. The reasons are really simple: 1) English is taught in school from a early age. In US schools, Mandarin usually wasn't an option until very recently, mostly Spanish, French, German, and Japanese were the standard choices. 2) English is the defacto international lingua franca. English speakers can live their whole life and not really have to learn another language to consume most of the world's published information and trade. However, Chinese speakers often need to know English to consume the output of other countries. If you need to need read an AI paper, it's most likely published in English, and unless the original authors were Chinese, they're not likely to have published a good translation. Given the importance of the Chinese economy, I expect the next generation will change this asymmetry somewhat. Already many schools in California offer Mandarin immersion, and it seems even more common these days to see Australians who can speak good Mandarin.
- CydeWeys 9y ago
  What point are you trying to prove here? It's not like English is some magical language that no one can possibly learn well if they didn't grow up speaking it. Go to Europe and you'll find millions of people who aren't native English speakers but nevertheless speak it excellently. In the grand scheme of things, being able to learn another language well does not beggar belief. In the context of this discussion, your comments are leaving a sour taste in my mouth. She's been questioned enough already.
  - jacobolus 9y ago
    I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m just saying her English seems quite a bit better than average. (My wife is Chinese and has very good English, as do many of her friends. I by no means think Chinese people are generally incapable of learning English or anything.) I thought my point was pretty obvious and simple. There are sure a lot of people here with sticks up their butts.

Taniwha 9y ago

I've met Chinese people in China with accents that to me said "valley girl", I honestly thought they came from LA. Far fewer Americans are taught Mandarin, and even fewer from an early enough age that they can master tones easily (I suspect that like Danish vowels you almost need to be born into it)

kelnos 9y ago
The tones themselves aren't hard (it's mainly just altering the pitch of the sounds you make in different ways); the pronunciation issues come from actual sounds that English speakers just don't make.
- Taniwha 9y ago
  That's kind of the point - they are sounds you learn well as a 1 year old, not so easy (in my case) at 50