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Anyone understand why Intel would do this? Have they given up on their own GPUs? Is this a response the Nvidia threat?

jgowdy 9y ago
Intel actually announced that they’re going to make their own discrete GPU in addition to selling AMD’s. Both the AMD offering and the Intel discrete offering feature the standard integrated Iris GPU for non-3D gaming (normal desktop graphics).
- visarga 9y ago
  > Iris GPU When TensorFlow came out I happily downloaded it on my Macbook only to learn that the "Iris GPU" is not supported (apparently there are NVIDIA based Macbooks too which are more expensive). What a bummer. Search and search, there is no solution, because Intel doesn't give a fuck about DL. So now I enjoy seeing them desperate, but it will take a lot to convince me of their dedication.
  - yvdriess 9y ago
    > only to learn that the "Iris GPU" is not supported You can use the CPU backend, which has gotten significant optimization since ~v1.2. You can probably use the integrated GPU with the OpenCL backend, but I am not sure it will be faster than a modern AVX2/3 CPU. > because Intel doesn't give a fuck about DL. Why do you think that? https://www.intelnervana.com/ https://www.intelnervana.com/ https://www.intel.in/content/www/in/en/events/ai-day.html https://www.intel.in/content/www/in/en/events/ai-day.html https://github.com/01org/mkl-dnn https://github.com/01org/mkl-dnn
Radle 9y ago
Yes and no. Intel Integrated Graphics was always a graphic solution executed by the CPU. This here solves multiple problems. A) The Computer has a dedicated graphics chip. B) The computer has an incredible high bandwidth between cpu/gpu/main memory. C) The CPU will be capable of utilizing the Special 3dimension graphics memory. Which is patented by AMD. (HBM) This is a way more powerful solution than integrated graphics and thus puts a lot of pressure on Nvidia for laptops and mobile maybe even for office computers.
- jra101 9y ago
  Intel integrated graphics are not executed by the CPU, there is an intel designed GPU on the same die as the CPU. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9582/intel-skylake-mobile-desktop-launch-architecture-analysis/6 https://www.anandtech.com/show/9582/intel-skylake-mobile-des... HBM is not exclusive to AMD, NVIDIA also ships GPUs using HBM (Tesla P100 and V100)
- m_mueller 9y ago
  does Nvidia pay AMD for using HBM or do they have their own design that doesn't fall under the patent?
- yvdriess 9y ago
  HBM, HBM2, HBM3 etc. are industry standard and the result of precompetitive research. Intel's KNL has been using similar stacked memory (MCDRAM). NVIDIA's P100 has been using HBM2.
jgowdy 9y ago
Oh, and the reason they’re doing this is ARM offerings from Qualcomm and Nvidia are very likely going to start seriously entering Desktop PCs. Some people may argue they’ll finally make a serious push into servers too, but that has failed so many times that I’m not holding my breath.
vbezhenar 9y ago
Intel claims that they made some kind of bus for similar stuff (to be able to easily add 3-rd party chips to their processor) and AMD GPU is just one example of application of this bus. That said, obviously their GPUs are inferior to AMD so if customers want powerful GPU, the only choice was to ship a separate PCI-E video card. Now Intel offers another choice which is probably better (for example I expect more PCI-E lanes for SSD and other things).
0xbear 9y ago
Enemy of my enemy is my friend. With this Intel achieves several goals: 1. Stave off the stiff competition from Zen APUs. 2. Support a small competitor to keep the DOJ off their tail. 3. Bankroll an alternative to CUDA which they could piggyback on later when their own stuff is shipping.
- m_mueller 9y ago
  I hope (3) comes true, but I have my doubts.
  - 0xbear 9y ago
    So do I. Competition is better for everybody, including the competitors.
    - m_mueller 9y ago
      The reason why I have doubts is that Intel has proven to be a rather weak competitor in anything other than multi- (but not many-) core x86. And their haphazard software strategy seems to be a major factor here. Especially the way Larrabee/Xeon Phi has gone so far, their push for OpenCL is IMO too little too late. Instead, OpenMP was promoted, with the vectorization basically brushed off as the magic the compiler will do for you... well it won't, and if it doesn't, you have no way to compete against Nvidia GPUs. Time will show whether they've now recognised this and work together with AMD in an effective way, but yeah...
imtringued 9y ago
Why is nobody reading the article? They are using innovative chip packaging to integrate an amd discrete laptop gpu and an intel cpu into a single package. The intel cpu still has an iGPU. If anyone is threatened it is Nvidia because nobody needs their mobile GPUs anymore.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  My Thinkpad Workstation disagrees.

Intel actually announced that they’re going to make their own discrete GPU in addition to selling AMD’s. Both the AMD offering and the Intel discrete offering feature the standard integrated Iris GPU for non-3D gaming (normal desktop graphics).

visarga 9y ago
> Iris GPU When TensorFlow came out I happily downloaded it on my Macbook only to learn that the "Iris GPU" is not supported (apparently there are NVIDIA based Macbooks too which are more expensive). What a bummer. Search and search, there is no solution, because Intel doesn't give a fuck about DL. So now I enjoy seeing them desperate, but it will take a lot to convince me of their dedication.
- yvdriess 9y ago
  > only to learn that the "Iris GPU" is not supported You can use the CPU backend, which has gotten significant optimization since ~v1.2. You can probably use the integrated GPU with the OpenCL backend, but I am not sure it will be faster than a modern AVX2/3 CPU. > because Intel doesn't give a fuck about DL. Why do you think that? https://www.intelnervana.com/ https://www.intelnervana.com/ https://www.intel.in/content/www/in/en/events/ai-day.html https://www.intel.in/content/www/in/en/events/ai-day.html https://github.com/01org/mkl-dnn https://github.com/01org/mkl-dnn

Radle 9y ago

Yes and no. Intel Integrated Graphics was always a graphic solution executed by the CPU. This here solves multiple problems. A) The Computer has a dedicated graphics chip. B) The computer has an incredible high bandwidth between cpu/gpu/main memory. C) The CPU will be capable of utilizing the Special 3dimension graphics memory. Which is patented by AMD. (HBM) This is a way more powerful solution than integrated graphics and thus puts a lot of pressure on Nvidia for laptops and mobile maybe even for office computers.

jra101 9y ago
Intel integrated graphics are not executed by the CPU, there is an intel designed GPU on the same die as the CPU. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9582/intel-skylake-mobile-desktop-launch-architecture-analysis/6 https://www.anandtech.com/show/9582/intel-skylake-mobile-des... HBM is not exclusive to AMD, NVIDIA also ships GPUs using HBM (Tesla P100 and V100)
m_mueller 9y ago
does Nvidia pay AMD for using HBM or do they have their own design that doesn't fall under the patent?
yvdriess 9y ago
HBM, HBM2, HBM3 etc. are industry standard and the result of precompetitive research. Intel's KNL has been using similar stacked memory (MCDRAM). NVIDIA's P100 has been using HBM2.

jgowdy 9y ago

Oh, and the reason they’re doing this is ARM offerings from Qualcomm and Nvidia are very likely going to start seriously entering Desktop PCs. Some people may argue they’ll finally make a serious push into servers too, but that has failed so many times that I’m not holding my breath.

vbezhenar 9y ago

Intel claims that they made some kind of bus for similar stuff (to be able to easily add 3-rd party chips to their processor) and AMD GPU is just one example of application of this bus. That said, obviously their GPUs are inferior to AMD so if customers want powerful GPU, the only choice was to ship a separate PCI-E video card. Now Intel offers another choice which is probably better (for example I expect more PCI-E lanes for SSD and other things).

0xbear 9y ago

Enemy of my enemy is my friend. With this Intel achieves several goals: 1. Stave off the stiff competition from Zen APUs. 2. Support a small competitor to keep the DOJ off their tail. 3. Bankroll an alternative to CUDA which they could piggyback on later when their own stuff is shipping.

m_mueller 9y ago
I hope (3) comes true, but I have my doubts.
- 0xbear 9y ago
  So do I. Competition is better for everybody, including the competitors.
  - m_mueller 9y ago
    The reason why I have doubts is that Intel has proven to be a rather weak competitor in anything other than multi- (but not many-) core x86. And their haphazard software strategy seems to be a major factor here. Especially the way Larrabee/Xeon Phi has gone so far, their push for OpenCL is IMO too little too late. Instead, OpenMP was promoted, with the vectorization basically brushed off as the magic the compiler will do for you... well it won't, and if it doesn't, you have no way to compete against Nvidia GPUs. Time will show whether they've now recognised this and work together with AMD in an effective way, but yeah...

imtringued 9y ago

Why is nobody reading the article? They are using innovative chip packaging to integrate an amd discrete laptop gpu and an intel cpu into a single package. The intel cpu still has an iGPU. If anyone is threatened it is Nvidia because nobody needs their mobile GPUs anymore.

pjmlp 9y ago
My Thinkpad Workstation disagrees.