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> try to hire yourself a technical co-founder from their job at FaceGoogAmaSoft (or pay equivalent) and find out that money talks What an incredibly simplistic

> try to hire yourself a technical co-founder from their job at FaceGoogAmaSoft (or pay equivalent) and find out that money talks What an incredibly simplistic view of the world. Even as someone living on the west coast I still find it insane that people think the best engineers only work at FaceGoogAmaSoft or somewhere else paying exorbitant salaries. There are thousands of engineers that work for far less. They're more interested in making a difference and solving difficult problems than collecting $300k per year as a cog in the machine. Not having to work for FaceGoogAmaSoft is likely worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to some people (I know it is for me).

notyourday 9y ago
Nope, your parent is absolutely correct ( most likely because he is successful technical co-founder with a track record, which would put him into his mid thirties or more). People get wiser with age and realize that while money may not buy one happiness, it certainly removes barriers to achieving happiness. > They're more interested in making a difference and solving difficult problems than collecting $300k per year as a cog in the machine. That means their take home is roughly $150k/year after taxes, which is $12.5K/mo, which is not an great take home. Most likely the take home for his partner would be about $4-$5k/mo. Lets make it $5k. So the total take home is $17k/mo. For someone in his thirties the apartment would be about $5k/mo. Wife's personal trainer + ClassPass ( you are accounting for things like that, right? You realize that 'I like the way you look' costs real money?) is $1k/mo. Food + incidentals is another $1k mo. Utilities + misc recurring is another $1k mo. So we are down to $9k/mo not going to anything before: 1. Going out 2. Clothes 3. Trips 4. Parties to host or go to 5. Emergency funds By the time this is all accounted for $300k/year income is perfectly fine but not extravagant in any of the areas where one gets $300k/year for his co-founder worthy skills.
- jonex 9y ago
  Spending $1k/mo on personal training is _not_ extravagant? I realise I must be living a much poorer life than I thought...
  - notyourday 9y ago
    ClassPass is $125/mo. Twice a week personal training is 8 sessions a month. That's $875 per month. Divided by 8 it is slightly less $110 per hour. A good personal trainer can easily charge $110 per hour, including facilities charges. Spending money on personal trainers allows you and your wife not to look like tubs of lard by mid thirties which in turns solves a boat load of very expensive problems in your forties and fifties. It is difficult to "change the world" with high blood pressure and diabetes.
    - robhunter 9y ago
      I don't think he was asking for a breakdown of what goes into the cost - I think the point is that most reasonable people would conclude that $1,000+/month spent on personal training very much qualifies as extravagant spending.
      - notyourday 9y ago
        Most of people, especially in the tech world are clueless, which is why the US is obese.
        ashark 9y ago
        Am I to understand continental Europeans, for example, are in much better shape than Americans because they employ more personal trainers?
    - matwood 9y ago
      C'mon. I agree a gym membership is required, but a 1k/month personal trainer is certainly not.
- UncleMeat 9y ago
  You think 1000 a month on food for two people is normal?
  - notyourday 9y ago
    Yes, a month is 30 days. 1000/30 is slightly more than $33 per day for two people. Your lunch coffee at starbucks habit is $5 per person per day. So with that or with "i grabbed an apple" or "I got a granola bar" habit that you or your wife has you are at $26 per person per day for breakfast/lunch/dinner for two people, which is $13 per person per day for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I seem to remember people arguing with me that $10 per person per dinner is the lowest that they pay per person ( see Blue Apron/Home Chef/Plated/etc business models) So based on their math it is $20 for two people per dinner. Now I personally think it is too much because I automatically only shop sales but I'm weird.
  - ashark 9y ago
    Maybe if you're a literally-every-second-of-my-time-is-money sort and never, ever cook, and you're also socialized to a certain standard of living and never eat cheap take-out or low-end frozen meals or whatever.
- mquander 9y ago
  You are just naming a bunch of things and then assigning arbitrary numbers which you could possibly spend on those things, if you really loved spending money. I am your exact demographic target audience, and I and my partner spend on the order of 4k/month each, while being healthy, happy, and so on, and it's not because we try super hard.
WhitneyLand 9y ago
That comes across as sour grapes reasoning, have you actually spent any time working for one of them? If so please forgive my assumption, but your points depend on a couple of huge assumptions. Why are you convinced there are no roles as these companies for people who want to make a difference, or that everyone feels like a cog in a machine? These companies are not my cup of tea at the moment, but I know your assumptions are wrong for a fact. Proof by counterexample only requires one data point, and I've been there and seen people who share your ethos and make that kind of money. This is not to say you can't find any number of people there that feel their jobs are thankless, insignificant, life force draining prospects. But we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people, and there are a variety of experiences people have. What percentage of them have you asked to be certain it's necessary to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars? I can imagine a more productive interpretation of your post, which may or not actually match your opinion, that goes like this: Those attributes are difficult to find in general at companies large and small. If you're fortunate enough to find a job that has them, think carefully before giving them up to make a few bucks more.
rifung 9y ago
> What an incredibly simplistic view of the world. I could make the same argument of your point of view as well. I work at Google precisely because I think I can make a difference here. That means something different to different people I imagine

notyourday 9y ago

Nope, your parent is absolutely correct ( most likely because he is successful technical co-founder with a track record, which would put him into his mid thirties or more). People get wiser with age and realize that while money may not buy one happiness, it certainly removes barriers to achieving happiness. > They're more interested in making a difference and solving difficult problems than collecting $300k per year as a cog in the machine. That means their take home is roughly $150k/year after taxes, which is $12.5K/mo, which is not an great take home. Most likely the take home for his partner would be about $4-$5k/mo. Lets make it $5k. So the total take home is $17k/mo. For someone in his thirties the apartment would be about $5k/mo. Wife's personal trainer + ClassPass ( you are accounting for things like that, right? You realize that 'I like the way you look' costs real money?) is $1k/mo. Food + incidentals is another $1k mo. Utilities + misc recurring is another $1k mo. So we are down to $9k/mo not going to anything before: 1. Going out 2. Clothes 3. Trips 4. Parties to host or go to 5. Emergency funds By the time this is all accounted for $300k/year income is perfectly fine but not extravagant in any of the areas where one gets $300k/year for his co-founder worthy skills.

jonex 9y ago
Spending $1k/mo on personal training is _not_ extravagant? I realise I must be living a much poorer life than I thought...
- notyourday 9y ago
  ClassPass is $125/mo. Twice a week personal training is 8 sessions a month. That's $875 per month. Divided by 8 it is slightly less $110 per hour. A good personal trainer can easily charge $110 per hour, including facilities charges. Spending money on personal trainers allows you and your wife not to look like tubs of lard by mid thirties which in turns solves a boat load of very expensive problems in your forties and fifties. It is difficult to "change the world" with high blood pressure and diabetes.
  - robhunter 9y ago
    I don't think he was asking for a breakdown of what goes into the cost - I think the point is that most reasonable people would conclude that $1,000+/month spent on personal training very much qualifies as extravagant spending.
    - notyourday 9y ago
      Most of people, especially in the tech world are clueless, which is why the US is obese.
      - ashark 9y ago
        Am I to understand continental Europeans, for example, are in much better shape than Americans because they employ more personal trainers?
  - matwood 9y ago
    C'mon. I agree a gym membership is required, but a 1k/month personal trainer is certainly not.
UncleMeat 9y ago
You think 1000 a month on food for two people is normal?
- notyourday 9y ago
  Yes, a month is 30 days. 1000/30 is slightly more than $33 per day for two people. Your lunch coffee at starbucks habit is $5 per person per day. So with that or with "i grabbed an apple" or "I got a granola bar" habit that you or your wife has you are at $26 per person per day for breakfast/lunch/dinner for two people, which is $13 per person per day for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I seem to remember people arguing with me that $10 per person per dinner is the lowest that they pay per person ( see Blue Apron/Home Chef/Plated/etc business models) So based on their math it is $20 for two people per dinner. Now I personally think it is too much because I automatically only shop sales but I'm weird.
- ashark 9y ago
  Maybe if you're a literally-every-second-of-my-time-is-money sort and never, ever cook, and you're also socialized to a certain standard of living and never eat cheap take-out or low-end frozen meals or whatever.
mquander 9y ago
You are just naming a bunch of things and then assigning arbitrary numbers which you could possibly spend on those things, if you really loved spending money. I am your exact demographic target audience, and I and my partner spend on the order of 4k/month each, while being healthy, happy, and so on, and it's not because we try super hard.

WhitneyLand 9y ago

That comes across as sour grapes reasoning, have you actually spent any time working for one of them? If so please forgive my assumption, but your points depend on a couple of huge assumptions. Why are you convinced there are no roles as these companies for people who want to make a difference, or that everyone feels like a cog in a machine? These companies are not my cup of tea at the moment, but I know your assumptions are wrong for a fact. Proof by counterexample only requires one data point, and I've been there and seen people who share your ethos and make that kind of money. This is not to say you can't find any number of people there that feel their jobs are thankless, insignificant, life force draining prospects. But we're talking about hundreds of thousands of people, and there are a variety of experiences people have. What percentage of them have you asked to be certain it's necessary to give up hundreds of thousands of dollars? I can imagine a more productive interpretation of your post, which may or not actually match your opinion, that goes like this: Those attributes are difficult to find in general at companies large and small. If you're fortunate enough to find a job that has them, think carefully before giving them up to make a few bucks more.

rifung 9y ago

> What an incredibly simplistic view of the world. I could make the same argument of your point of view as well. I work at Google precisely because I think I can make a difference here. That means something different to different people I imagine