6 ms·

Pretty sure most of the lower paid folks in Seattle dislike how their rent doubled because these tech folks throw money at rentals close to downtown.

leggomylibro 9y ago
And...what, do you think people are more likely to feel empathy when they're treated like subhuman dirt? (Or something slightly less hyperbolic, whatever) Kind of an ironic complaint, isn't it?
- chickenfries 9y ago
  Please provide some examples of being treated like subhuman dirt, I'm waiting. You make Seattle sound like they're pelting techies in the streets with rotten fruit. I have no idea what you're talking about, having lived and worked in Seattle.
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    Nobody will talk with me. So I've just stopped speaking unless spoken to...this is the first place where I've felt like my mere existence is an imposition. I understand that plenty of other people deal with that every day but...it still hurts.
    - WaxProlix 9y ago
      What are you talking about? I've been a techie transplant in Seattle for years and while some folks understandably resent the trend, none have treated me or any other individual poorly because of it. If anything, they're likely to ask about my experience and how I think we could alleviate the issues (more housing inventory, imo). I think you're very unlucky or hypersensitive to things that don't actually exist.
    - stdgy 9y ago
      Do you walk around with a sign on your forehead announcing to the world that you're a techie? I would suspect not. On what grounds do you believe that to be the basis for people not speaking with you?
    - icelancer 9y ago
      >>Nobody will talk with me. Strongly consider that this is not a problem in tech, but an individual one. I put in years at Microsoft, Amazon, and the dreaded startup row in Pioneer Square. I have a diverse group of friends from tech to retail, I watch football weekly with random people, have no problems striking up conversations at bars, etc. Most of the complaints I hear like yours are eminently traceable to individual personalities that are overrepresented in tech, not people in general.
    - chickenfries 9y ago
      > Nobody will talk with me. > understand that plenty of other people deal with that every day but... Have you tried volunteering? It might make you feel a little bit less lonely, and a little more wanted for helping other people. You sound like you're experiencing some isolating emotions for the first time... living in the big city can be isolating and alienating for everyone. Not just techies. You're not a pariah... it's just Seattle.
      - mikestew 9y ago
        Have you tried volunteering? Just a confirmation for this. As just one example, I spend a lot of time volunteering at an animal shelter. Makes me wished I'd volunteered as a younger man, as there are some hot chix there, and we obviously all like dogs. :-) Piggishness aside, I meet all kinds of people there and take my pick of relationships had I more time. Even if I don't speak to another person, I get to hang out with a variety of dogs while I'm there, and if no human thanks me the dogs sure do seem to appreciate it. Or Meetups for your chosen hobby. As yet another example, I play bluegrass music. Not in a band, just "jamming" with other people. I could play bluegrass music with other people at least three days a week if I wanted to (and sometimes do), probably more if I'd drive just a bit further. In addition to meeting other people at the jams, and bluegrassers will talk to you as long as you can stand it, that leads to going to bluegrass festivals, where you spend an entire weekend playing with other people after the bands get off stage. Just some ideas. Because I do think a valid "complaint" of Seattle in general is that you're always welcome, but we're not going to explicitly invite you.
    - curtis 9y ago
      > Nobody will talk with me. They're not singling you out. Seattle people don't talk to random strangers on the street or transit unless there's an actual reason. This aspect of the city is well known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze. The good news is that it's not personal. The bad news is that it's still difficult to get to know people. There are some exceptions to the rule. If you're a coffee drinker, you can definitely talk to your barista (about half of them are really friendly in my experience), and if you have a dog, you can talk to other people who have dogs (you might think I'm joking, but I am not). Your best bet for human interaction is to join some sort of formal group. I still have a group of friends I made through Seattle Works (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Works) a decade ago.
      - rifung 9y ago
        > They're not singling you out. Seattle people don't talk to random strangers on the street or transit unless there's an actual reason. This aspect of the city is well known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze. Is this unique to Seattle? I don't think I've lived anywhere (lived in both north and south CA previously) where people just talked to random people. I feel like that's just one part of being in a big place? No point saying hi to every single person because there's way too many people and you're unlikely to see most of them ever again.
      - icelancer 9y ago
        This is completely normal to any city that has a lot of transplants. At 24 years old, showing up to a city and expecting to become inner-circle friends with people who came up through high school is not reasonable, and people give up "making friends" fast. Source: I moved to Seattle at 22 and have more friends here than I ever had in my previous life.
    - mikestew 9y ago
      Nobody will talk with me. I mean this in the most constructive manner I can muster: consider that you contribute to this in some way. To put it more bluntly, maybe it's you. Because I've lived here for seventeen years, having moved from the Midwest, which was a hell of an adjustment. Because I'll agree that Seattlites are generally not as outgoing. For example, you move into a neighborhood in the Midwest and you'll be eating casserole for a week as the neighbors one by one drop them off. In Seattle, meh, it'd be nice if the neighbors acknowledged that I'm new to the neighborhood. But to just not talk to you? Really? An entire geographical location comprised of people that won't talk to others? C'mon, how likely is that? Hell, most people around here these days aren't even from Washington, so they're just fast learners of local culture? Now I'm a bit of an introvert, so I'm not all that outgoing to begin with, but I have no trouble getting people to talk to me. Not as "chew your ear off" as Midwesterners can be, but they'll talk. If I had anything to complain about with West Coast living in general is folks can be a bit self-absorbed compared to what I'm used to. So they'll talk; oh, how they'll talk, but it'll be about themselves. But at least they're talking to you. :-) So ask people how that Paleo diet is going, or how Crossfit workouts are treating them. My experience says that you'll beg them to shut up. But all of this is one huge, monstrous generalization because you can't just dump 700K people into one pigeon hole and call it a day.
      - leggomylibro 9y ago
        Thanks - I appreciate the benefit of your experience and it's always nice to have people slap you with some perspective...you might be surprised how often that doesn't happen, when you don't talk to people much.
        mikestew 9y ago
        you might be surprised how often that doesn't happen, when you don't talk to people much The irony is not lost on me. :-) Best wishes to you for where ever you end up.
        leggomylibro 9y ago
        Yeah honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't part of why I whine and complain like this online. I feel like it's probably unhealthy (you know, relatively or whatever) to lose that reminder that you're just another asshole who can't quite make things work right, just like everyone else. I feel like most people get it from talking and discussing and arguing about intetesting things, but when all you can afford is grits...
    - selimthegrim 9y ago
      As a fellow sufferer of this years ago (we've been over this before here on HN) I'm happy to reach out and strategize. My email is my HN handle at gmail
    - TomMarius 9y ago
      This is fascinating to me. Don't move to Europe, you might feel like we are going to murder you in some dark corner. When I was in Seattle I was fascinated with how outcoming these people were and then I read this - wow. Interesting perspective.
    - hcho3 9y ago
      > Nobody will talk with me. Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like you've gone through a lot. I am also a recent transplant in Seattle. If you ever need someone to talk to, we can meet up over coffee or something. You can reach me at chohyu01@uw.edu.
- vkou 9y ago
  As a techie (who does wear his status on his forehead... Or at least, on company-branded clothing, which is 60% of what I wear,) I have never been treated like subhuman dirt in Seattle. I have, however, seen quite a few homeless people, bus drivers, and food workers treated like subhuman dirt. I'm not saying you haven't ran into problems, what I'm saying is that between being a techie, and not, the former has way less of them.
shepardrtc 9y ago
Local landlords are the ones increasing the rent, not the people that pay for it.
- astrodust 9y ago
  They're increasing the rent because people are willing and able to pay. It's a complex relationship.
- doublerebel 9y ago
  People are overpaying for housing (cash offers 20% over asking), and turning them into expensive rentals (mostly Airbnb) to pay for the extra cost. In that sense, people are absolutely setting their own ceiling on cost of housing. Also, in order to cope with rising costs from new residents, property taxes have risen 35% in the last 4 years [0]. Part of the rent increases are just to cover the property tax. These taxes are voted in by the people. (Source: I have friends who have purchased homes here, others who work in real estate, and I do tech things for property management companies.) [0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/property-tax-bills-in-king-county-are-among-the-nations-highest-and-growing-fast/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/property-t...
  - shepardrtc 9y ago
    > People are overpaying for housing (cash offers 20% over asking) All the rentals I looked at had fixed prices and they weren't interested in extra cash. That's also assuming you're renting from an individual and not a company. The massive apartments that are being built have fixed, though rising yearly, costs. > property taxes have risen 35% That increase isn't automatic and certainly isn't locked in step to the number of people moving in. Its a decision by the county. My point is that to blame people trying to find a place to stay is ridiculous. The increase in pricing is a choice made by landlords, and is influenced by a choice made by the county.
    - doublerebel 9y ago
      Renter demand is insane right now, and they have the cash to back it up. I know of people renting a second place to stay, closer to work, because traffic has become so bad. I know that people are snapping up rentals as soon as they come on the market, even if that means supporting 2 leases for the rest of the month just to get what they want. Rent prices never have a chance or reason to drop. The county's choices are a reflection of its citizens. City council has recently passed several new ordinances to make housing more 'fair', unfortunately this also has caused a significant increase in compliance cost for property managers. My personal opinion is that zoning should be relaxed in several areas. Nevertheless Seattle price/sqft is in the range of other major US cities and still has room to rise: https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/apartment-search-2/what-does-1500-rent-you-apartment-size-in-the-top-us-cities/ https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/apartment-search-2/what-does-1...

leggomylibro 9y ago

And...what, do you think people are more likely to feel empathy when they're treated like subhuman dirt? (Or something slightly less hyperbolic, whatever) Kind of an ironic complaint, isn't it?

chickenfries 9y ago
Please provide some examples of being treated like subhuman dirt, I'm waiting. You make Seattle sound like they're pelting techies in the streets with rotten fruit. I have no idea what you're talking about, having lived and worked in Seattle.
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  Nobody will talk with me. So I've just stopped speaking unless spoken to...this is the first place where I've felt like my mere existence is an imposition. I understand that plenty of other people deal with that every day but...it still hurts.
  - WaxProlix 9y ago
    What are you talking about? I've been a techie transplant in Seattle for years and while some folks understandably resent the trend, none have treated me or any other individual poorly because of it. If anything, they're likely to ask about my experience and how I think we could alleviate the issues (more housing inventory, imo). I think you're very unlucky or hypersensitive to things that don't actually exist.
  - stdgy 9y ago
    Do you walk around with a sign on your forehead announcing to the world that you're a techie? I would suspect not. On what grounds do you believe that to be the basis for people not speaking with you?
  - icelancer 9y ago
    >>Nobody will talk with me. Strongly consider that this is not a problem in tech, but an individual one. I put in years at Microsoft, Amazon, and the dreaded startup row in Pioneer Square. I have a diverse group of friends from tech to retail, I watch football weekly with random people, have no problems striking up conversations at bars, etc. Most of the complaints I hear like yours are eminently traceable to individual personalities that are overrepresented in tech, not people in general.
  - chickenfries 9y ago
    > Nobody will talk with me. > understand that plenty of other people deal with that every day but... Have you tried volunteering? It might make you feel a little bit less lonely, and a little more wanted for helping other people. You sound like you're experiencing some isolating emotions for the first time... living in the big city can be isolating and alienating for everyone. Not just techies. You're not a pariah... it's just Seattle.
    - mikestew 9y ago
      Have you tried volunteering? Just a confirmation for this. As just one example, I spend a lot of time volunteering at an animal shelter. Makes me wished I'd volunteered as a younger man, as there are some hot chix there, and we obviously all like dogs. :-) Piggishness aside, I meet all kinds of people there and take my pick of relationships had I more time. Even if I don't speak to another person, I get to hang out with a variety of dogs while I'm there, and if no human thanks me the dogs sure do seem to appreciate it. Or Meetups for your chosen hobby. As yet another example, I play bluegrass music. Not in a band, just "jamming" with other people. I could play bluegrass music with other people at least three days a week if I wanted to (and sometimes do), probably more if I'd drive just a bit further. In addition to meeting other people at the jams, and bluegrassers will talk to you as long as you can stand it, that leads to going to bluegrass festivals, where you spend an entire weekend playing with other people after the bands get off stage. Just some ideas. Because I do think a valid "complaint" of Seattle in general is that you're always welcome, but we're not going to explicitly invite you.
  - curtis 9y ago
    > Nobody will talk with me. They're not singling you out. Seattle people don't talk to random strangers on the street or transit unless there's an actual reason. This aspect of the city is well known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze. The good news is that it's not personal. The bad news is that it's still difficult to get to know people. There are some exceptions to the rule. If you're a coffee drinker, you can definitely talk to your barista (about half of them are really friendly in my experience), and if you have a dog, you can talk to other people who have dogs (you might think I'm joking, but I am not). Your best bet for human interaction is to join some sort of formal group. I still have a group of friends I made through Seattle Works (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Works) a decade ago.
    - rifung 9y ago
      > They're not singling you out. Seattle people don't talk to random strangers on the street or transit unless there's an actual reason. This aspect of the city is well known: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze. Is this unique to Seattle? I don't think I've lived anywhere (lived in both north and south CA previously) where people just talked to random people. I feel like that's just one part of being in a big place? No point saying hi to every single person because there's way too many people and you're unlikely to see most of them ever again.
    - icelancer 9y ago
      This is completely normal to any city that has a lot of transplants. At 24 years old, showing up to a city and expecting to become inner-circle friends with people who came up through high school is not reasonable, and people give up "making friends" fast. Source: I moved to Seattle at 22 and have more friends here than I ever had in my previous life.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Nobody will talk with me. I mean this in the most constructive manner I can muster: consider that you contribute to this in some way. To put it more bluntly, maybe it's you. Because I've lived here for seventeen years, having moved from the Midwest, which was a hell of an adjustment. Because I'll agree that Seattlites are generally not as outgoing. For example, you move into a neighborhood in the Midwest and you'll be eating casserole for a week as the neighbors one by one drop them off. In Seattle, meh, it'd be nice if the neighbors acknowledged that I'm new to the neighborhood. But to just not talk to you? Really? An entire geographical location comprised of people that won't talk to others? C'mon, how likely is that? Hell, most people around here these days aren't even from Washington, so they're just fast learners of local culture? Now I'm a bit of an introvert, so I'm not all that outgoing to begin with, but I have no trouble getting people to talk to me. Not as "chew your ear off" as Midwesterners can be, but they'll talk. If I had anything to complain about with West Coast living in general is folks can be a bit self-absorbed compared to what I'm used to. So they'll talk; oh, how they'll talk, but it'll be about themselves. But at least they're talking to you. :-) So ask people how that Paleo diet is going, or how Crossfit workouts are treating them. My experience says that you'll beg them to shut up. But all of this is one huge, monstrous generalization because you can't just dump 700K people into one pigeon hole and call it a day.
    - leggomylibro 9y ago
      Thanks - I appreciate the benefit of your experience and it's always nice to have people slap you with some perspective...you might be surprised how often that doesn't happen, when you don't talk to people much.
      - mikestew 9y ago
        you might be surprised how often that doesn't happen, when you don't talk to people much The irony is not lost on me. :-) Best wishes to you for where ever you end up.
        leggomylibro 9y ago
        Yeah honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't part of why I whine and complain like this online. I feel like it's probably unhealthy (you know, relatively or whatever) to lose that reminder that you're just another asshole who can't quite make things work right, just like everyone else. I feel like most people get it from talking and discussing and arguing about intetesting things, but when all you can afford is grits...
  - selimthegrim 9y ago
    As a fellow sufferer of this years ago (we've been over this before here on HN) I'm happy to reach out and strategize. My email is my HN handle at gmail
  - TomMarius 9y ago
    This is fascinating to me. Don't move to Europe, you might feel like we are going to murder you in some dark corner. When I was in Seattle I was fascinated with how outcoming these people were and then I read this - wow. Interesting perspective.
  - hcho3 9y ago
    > Nobody will talk with me. Wow, I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds like you've gone through a lot. I am also a recent transplant in Seattle. If you ever need someone to talk to, we can meet up over coffee or something. You can reach me at chohyu01@uw.edu.
vkou 9y ago
As a techie (who does wear his status on his forehead... Or at least, on company-branded clothing, which is 60% of what I wear,) I have never been treated like subhuman dirt in Seattle. I have, however, seen quite a few homeless people, bus drivers, and food workers treated like subhuman dirt. I'm not saying you haven't ran into problems, what I'm saying is that between being a techie, and not, the former has way less of them.

shepardrtc 9y ago

Local landlords are the ones increasing the rent, not the people that pay for it.

astrodust 9y ago
They're increasing the rent because people are willing and able to pay. It's a complex relationship.
doublerebel 9y ago
People are overpaying for housing (cash offers 20% over asking), and turning them into expensive rentals (mostly Airbnb) to pay for the extra cost. In that sense, people are absolutely setting their own ceiling on cost of housing. Also, in order to cope with rising costs from new residents, property taxes have risen 35% in the last 4 years [0]. Part of the rent increases are just to cover the property tax. These taxes are voted in by the people. (Source: I have friends who have purchased homes here, others who work in real estate, and I do tech things for property management companies.) [0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/property-tax-bills-in-king-county-are-among-the-nations-highest-and-growing-fast/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/property-t...
- shepardrtc 9y ago
  > People are overpaying for housing (cash offers 20% over asking) All the rentals I looked at had fixed prices and they weren't interested in extra cash. That's also assuming you're renting from an individual and not a company. The massive apartments that are being built have fixed, though rising yearly, costs. > property taxes have risen 35% That increase isn't automatic and certainly isn't locked in step to the number of people moving in. Its a decision by the county. My point is that to blame people trying to find a place to stay is ridiculous. The increase in pricing is a choice made by landlords, and is influenced by a choice made by the county.
  - doublerebel 9y ago
    Renter demand is insane right now, and they have the cash to back it up. I know of people renting a second place to stay, closer to work, because traffic has become so bad. I know that people are snapping up rentals as soon as they come on the market, even if that means supporting 2 leases for the rest of the month just to get what they want. Rent prices never have a chance or reason to drop. The county's choices are a reflection of its citizens. City council has recently passed several new ordinances to make housing more 'fair', unfortunately this also has caused a significant increase in compliance cost for property managers. My personal opinion is that zoning should be relaxed in several areas. Nevertheless Seattle price/sqft is in the range of other major US cities and still has room to rise: https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/apartment-search-2/what-does-1500-rent-you-apartment-size-in-the-top-us-cities/ https://www.rentcafe.com/blog/apartment-search-2/what-does-1...