5 ms·

That's why Germans should be opposed to listening devices. The fact is, the vast majority is perfectly happy using stuff like android phones or amazon's echo.

by cJ0th 9y ago

Xylakant 9y ago
Both an amazon echo and an android phone require a key phrase to activate. It’s obviously possible that they could be used by amazon/google to listen in, but neither is a covert device that you can use to listen in on me, something that these smart watches enable.
- bennettfeely 9y ago
  Until they are hacked and are used by others to listen in
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    This still is not their primary purpose. And yes, illegal acts could turn them into an illegal covert listening device, but that would be illegal, wouldn’t it?
  - Fnoord 9y ago
    Same could be said about smartphones and laptops. Its why I prefer a hardware killswitch on a device. My ThinkPad T61 got one. My MBPs don't. The T61 is from 2008. The MBPs are from 2010 and 2015.
    - Gaelan 9y ago
      The MBP at least has the camera light. Not proactive, but if you see the light come one at least you can kill the power
      - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
        That's little comfort if an attacker can access the camera without the LED turning on. You can never be sure which is why integrated cameras and microphones get ripped out of devices used in sensitive areas.
        Gaelan 9y ago
        Camera is hard-wired to the LED. If you don't trust the wiring of the device, kill switch is out too.
        oe 9y ago
        Depends on the camera. There have been hacks where a laptop camera is turned on but the LED is not. Hence people covering cameras with tape.
        gsich 9y ago
        Have you found one for Thinkpads?
      - Fnoord 9y ago
        Yes, the MBPs got that fancy light. The TP can point the camera to the back tho (which could be worse). I covered all 3 with tape. Both 3 have that option. Only the TP has a killswitch for radios though. And it doesn't seem Apple is very fond of killswitches for radios, given their utter lack of expected functionality in iOS 11.
- hammock 9y ago
  We can argue about the definition of covert, but Amazon Echo does allow others to somewhat sneakily listen in on you: >When you drop in on your device or a contact's device, the light ring on your Echo pulses green, you connect automatically and can hear anything within range of the device https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202153130 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
  - Xylakant 9y ago
    Drop in is an optional feature that needs to be explicitly enabled for a list of contacts. It’s not covert if you have to turn it on.
    - hammock 9y ago
      Like I said, we can argue over "covert." But once you allow a contact to drop in on you, they can do it at any time, with no prior warning, and you won't know it until they're already listening to you.
- anonymfus 9y ago
  Android permissions don't distinguish between foreground and background audio capture, so every messenger app installed could be used to listen in.
  - germanier 9y ago
    "Could be used by a determined person with the necessary skills" and "is intended for and market to consumers as" is not the same thing even though there might not be a technological difference.
- squarefoot 9y ago
  "Both an amazon echo and an android phone require a key phrase to activate." But thanks to the devices closed nature, their manufacturers have the exclusive ability to remotely modify their workings so that the device could listen without the "owner" consent. This assuming it hasn't already been done and a single packet hidden into an update push can trigger undetectable monitoring. Technically it would be trivial to implement and trivial to turn off with another update so that it would remain undetectable in case of device hardware/firmware/software inspection. SmartTV also should be treated as dangerous. https://bgr.com/2017/02/07/vizio-smart-tv-spying-case/ https://bgr.com/2017/02/07/vizio-smart-tv-spying-case/ https://www.rte.ie/news/technology/2017/0308/858060-samsung-wikileaks-probe/ https://www.rte.ie/news/technology/2017/0308/858060-samsung-...
- scott_karana 9y ago
  Bullshit. They're already "activated" if they can hear the key phrase in the first place. In only the absolute best case, the always-on microphone is backed by a local-only module that picks up the keyphrase, and sends only subsequent communications to the cloud.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

That's why Germans should be opposed to listening devices. The fact is, the vast majority is perfectly happy using stuff like android phones or amazon's echo.

by cJ0th 9y ago

That's why Germans should be opposed to listening devices. The fact is, the vast majority is perfectly happy using stuff like android phones or amazon's echo.

Xylakant 9y ago

Both an amazon echo and an android phone require a key phrase to activate. It’s obviously possible that they could be used by amazon/google to listen in, but neither is a covert device that you can use to listen in on me, something that these smart watches enable.

bennettfeely 9y ago
Until they are hacked and are used by others to listen in
- Xylakant 9y ago
  This still is not their primary purpose. And yes, illegal acts could turn them into an illegal covert listening device, but that would be illegal, wouldn’t it?
- Fnoord 9y ago
  Same could be said about smartphones and laptops. Its why I prefer a hardware killswitch on a device. My ThinkPad T61 got one. My MBPs don't. The T61 is from 2008. The MBPs are from 2010 and 2015.
  - Gaelan 9y ago
    The MBP at least has the camera light. Not proactive, but if you see the light come one at least you can kill the power
    - kevin_thibedeau 9y ago
      That's little comfort if an attacker can access the camera without the LED turning on. You can never be sure which is why integrated cameras and microphones get ripped out of devices used in sensitive areas.
      - Gaelan 9y ago
        Camera is hard-wired to the LED. If you don't trust the wiring of the device, kill switch is out too.
        oe 9y ago
        Depends on the camera. There have been hacks where a laptop camera is turned on but the LED is not. Hence people covering cameras with tape.
        gsich 9y ago
        Have you found one for Thinkpads?
    - Fnoord 9y ago
      Yes, the MBPs got that fancy light. The TP can point the camera to the back tho (which could be worse). I covered all 3 with tape. Both 3 have that option. Only the TP has a killswitch for radios though. And it doesn't seem Apple is very fond of killswitches for radios, given their utter lack of expected functionality in iOS 11.
hammock 9y ago
We can argue about the definition of covert, but Amazon Echo does allow others to somewhat sneakily listen in on you: >When you drop in on your device or a contact's device, the light ring on your Echo pulses green, you connect automatically and can hear anything within range of the device https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=202153130 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
- Xylakant 9y ago
  Drop in is an optional feature that needs to be explicitly enabled for a list of contacts. It’s not covert if you have to turn it on.
  - hammock 9y ago
    Like I said, we can argue over "covert." But once you allow a contact to drop in on you, they can do it at any time, with no prior warning, and you won't know it until they're already listening to you.
anonymfus 9y ago
Android permissions don't distinguish between foreground and background audio capture, so every messenger app installed could be used to listen in.
- germanier 9y ago
  "Could be used by a determined person with the necessary skills" and "is intended for and market to consumers as" is not the same thing even though there might not be a technological difference.
squarefoot 9y ago
"Both an amazon echo and an android phone require a key phrase to activate." But thanks to the devices closed nature, their manufacturers have the exclusive ability to remotely modify their workings so that the device could listen without the "owner" consent. This assuming it hasn't already been done and a single packet hidden into an update push can trigger undetectable monitoring. Technically it would be trivial to implement and trivial to turn off with another update so that it would remain undetectable in case of device hardware/firmware/software inspection. SmartTV also should be treated as dangerous. https://bgr.com/2017/02/07/vizio-smart-tv-spying-case/ https://bgr.com/2017/02/07/vizio-smart-tv-spying-case/ https://www.rte.ie/news/technology/2017/0308/858060-samsung-wikileaks-probe/ https://www.rte.ie/news/technology/2017/0308/858060-samsung-...
scott_karana 9y ago
Bullshit. They're already "activated" if they can hear the key phrase in the first place. In only the absolute best case, the always-on microphone is backed by a local-only module that picks up the keyphrase, and sends only subsequent communications to the cloud.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]