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Tesla can barely ship the Model 3, and now they're adding yet another consumer vehicle to the lineup? Tesla's vision is completely scattered. I have little fai

by urda 9y ago

Tesla can barely ship the Model 3, and now they're adding yet another consumer vehicle to the lineup? Tesla's vision is completely scattered. I have little faith in them at this time since they can't deliver the "economy" Model 3, but now suddenly have the bandwidth to develop, engineer, ship, and maintain yet another car? Tesla, ship the Model 3 at scale and then we'll talk.

jsolson 9y ago
That was my initial reaction, but it leads to a question: do you stop doing R&D (and shed talent as a result) because production in another part of the company is blocked by some (hopefully transient) supply chain issue?
- urda 9y ago
  Preface: I don't have any stake in Tesla's success or products. If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at scale. This makes Tesla look like they care little, because after all they already have your Model 3 money.
  - ktta 9y ago
    >If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at scale. I mean, by the same reasoning, Model S owners should be pissed, Model X owners should be pissed too. But the money from both seems to have made Model 3 possible.
    - urda 9y ago
      True I haven't even touched on them either! Tesla has yet to prove they can build cars at scale, they are nothing compared to current auto manufacturers. I think they are biting off more than they can chew.
      - ktta 9y ago
        >I think they are biting off more than they can chew. I don't think anyone will disagree with you about that. But we sure as hell want to see them succeed.
        urda 9y ago
        Same here! I love their tech and I can't wait to see Model 3 after Model 3. ... but damn it Tesla ship it!
      - dmode 9y ago
        People are overreacting on Model 3 challenges. It is a really simple car to manufacture. Once the supply chain bottlenecks are ironed out, it will be really easy to pump out cars at scale. They already produce 2500 S and X per week.
  - pySSK 9y ago
    R&D engineers and car designers are usually separate people from manufacturing and supply chain engineers. Now that Model 3 has been passed onto mass(-ish) production, Tesla is using those engineers to develop other products. Tesla would lose those talented people if it asked them to just sit and do nothing, or if it asked them to work on areas completely outside their (not just lose, but lose to competitors).
pfranz 9y ago
Maybe he's just repeating the same Roadster business model? Small quantity (can hand-assemble if necessary), high margin, prestige product to help keep money coming in for the rest of the business.
- urda 9y ago
  Sure that worked well for Tesla early as they were growing, but this is a company that is already shipping three vehicles to the consumer space. They shouldn't be trying to do "small quantity" work , and instead should be focused on going wide and getting those Model 3's out the door to the those that have already bought in to the Model 3.
  - pfranz 9y ago
    Splitting your attention is going to introduce more problems, but so is not having money or having to beg for money every year or two. Maybe the Roadster reboot should have been scrapped, but this has clearly been in the works before Model 3's production scaling issues. With a large company you have a diverse group of talent; you aren't going to have your designers sit around while you are tuning capacity. Hopefully, this helps compliment their growth.
rich-w-big-ego 9y ago
Let's talk companies. For the uninformed, a part of building a successful vertically integrated battery, car, and truck company that spans the globe that also uses a brand new powertrain and form factor for their products is getting lots of investment so that you can fund your long-term technology play. To get a lot of investment, you have to sustain the public's interest in your product. If you're in the limelight, you are going to get investment. so why not use your new powertrain and form factor in new products that build upon previous products, thus advancing your technology and locking in future investment thanks to the hype? Do this for a decade and wow, you actually have a clear path to taking over the world's energy and transportation markets thanks to your incredible technological advantage.
modeless 9y ago
This car will bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in preorders immediately, and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now. That doesn't seem like a good idea to you? If Model 3 isn't in full production by 2020 then the company will no longer exist anyway.
- justsomeguy99 9y ago
  >and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now And what do you base this prognostication on? Tesla has been building cars for a few years, and loses money on them. And don't give me "R&D". You can back it out of their financials and it's still rough, and it will never go to zero; just look at the other majors. All this stuff is cool, but will it ever make money?
dvddgld 9y ago
The economy version is the ultimate goal, along with industrial applications like the Semi. But high end cars make headlines, make people believe and make people excited about the future. That’s more important than you’d think in getting the economy version to be a reality. Though I do understand the concerns about constant hype and not fully delivering on it, I think that’s infinitely better than the alternative where nothing happens at all.
- urda 9y ago
  I could be wrong, and this play could totally pan out. But their current Model S, X, and 3 aren't exactly flooding the market either.
  - dvddgld 9y ago
    There’s certainly chances for failure, but I’m inspired by the fact they try anyway. I see at least one Model S everyday. Tesla have objectively made an impact, and in my books that’s a good thing.

by urda 9y ago

jsolson 9y ago

That was my initial reaction, but it leads to a question: do you stop doing R&D (and shed talent as a result) because production in another part of the company is blocked by some (hopefully transient) supply chain issue?

urda 9y ago
Preface: I don't have any stake in Tesla's success or products. If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at scale. This makes Tesla look like they care little, because after all they already have your Model 3 money.
- ktta 9y ago
  >If I was a consumer sitting on a Model 3 reservation I would be pissed that they are taking yet more money for yet another car they can't seem to ship at scale. I mean, by the same reasoning, Model S owners should be pissed, Model X owners should be pissed too. But the money from both seems to have made Model 3 possible.
  - urda 9y ago
    True I haven't even touched on them either! Tesla has yet to prove they can build cars at scale, they are nothing compared to current auto manufacturers. I think they are biting off more than they can chew.
    - ktta 9y ago
      >I think they are biting off more than they can chew. I don't think anyone will disagree with you about that. But we sure as hell want to see them succeed.
      - urda 9y ago
        Same here! I love their tech and I can't wait to see Model 3 after Model 3. ... but damn it Tesla ship it!
    - dmode 9y ago
      People are overreacting on Model 3 challenges. It is a really simple car to manufacture. Once the supply chain bottlenecks are ironed out, it will be really easy to pump out cars at scale. They already produce 2500 S and X per week.
- pySSK 9y ago
  R&D engineers and car designers are usually separate people from manufacturing and supply chain engineers. Now that Model 3 has been passed onto mass(-ish) production, Tesla is using those engineers to develop other products. Tesla would lose those talented people if it asked them to just sit and do nothing, or if it asked them to work on areas completely outside their (not just lose, but lose to competitors).

pfranz 9y ago

Maybe he's just repeating the same Roadster business model? Small quantity (can hand-assemble if necessary), high margin, prestige product to help keep money coming in for the rest of the business.

urda 9y ago
Sure that worked well for Tesla early as they were growing, but this is a company that is already shipping three vehicles to the consumer space. They shouldn't be trying to do "small quantity" work , and instead should be focused on going wide and getting those Model 3's out the door to the those that have already bought in to the Model 3.
- pfranz 9y ago
  Splitting your attention is going to introduce more problems, but so is not having money or having to beg for money every year or two. Maybe the Roadster reboot should have been scrapped, but this has clearly been in the works before Model 3's production scaling issues. With a large company you have a diverse group of talent; you aren't going to have your designers sit around while you are tuning capacity. Hopefully, this helps compliment their growth.

rich-w-big-ego 9y ago

Let's talk companies. For the uninformed, a part of building a successful vertically integrated battery, car, and truck company that spans the globe that also uses a brand new powertrain and form factor for their products is getting lots of investment so that you can fund your long-term technology play. To get a lot of investment, you have to sustain the public's interest in your product. If you're in the limelight, you are going to get investment. so why not use your new powertrain and form factor in new products that build upon previous products, thus advancing your technology and locking in future investment thanks to the hype? Do this for a decade and wow, you actually have a clear path to taking over the world's energy and transportation markets thanks to your incredible technological advantage.

modeless 9y ago

This car will bring in hundreds of millions of dollars in preorders immediately, and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now. That doesn't seem like a good idea to you? If Model 3 isn't in full production by 2020 then the company will no longer exist anyway.

justsomeguy99 9y ago
>and cost much less than that for them to produce when they get around to it over two years from now And what do you base this prognostication on? Tesla has been building cars for a few years, and loses money on them. And don't give me "R&D". You can back it out of their financials and it's still rough, and it will never go to zero; just look at the other majors. All this stuff is cool, but will it ever make money?

dvddgld 9y ago

The economy version is the ultimate goal, along with industrial applications like the Semi. But high end cars make headlines, make people believe and make people excited about the future. That’s more important than you’d think in getting the economy version to be a reality. Though I do understand the concerns about constant hype and not fully delivering on it, I think that’s infinitely better than the alternative where nothing happens at all.

urda 9y ago
I could be wrong, and this play could totally pan out. But their current Model S, X, and 3 aren't exactly flooding the market either.
- dvddgld 9y ago
  There’s certainly chances for failure, but I’m inspired by the fact they try anyway. I see at least one Model S everyday. Tesla have objectively made an impact, and in my books that’s a good thing.