4 ms·

Oh God yes, I can't agree with this more. My wife worked as an adjunct at Indiana University, killing herself with a 15-hour load for eight thousand bucks whil

by Vivtek 16y ago

Oh God yes, I can't agree with this more. My wife worked as an adjunct at Indiana University, killing herself with a 15-hour load for eight thousand bucks while the president of the university, who arguably contributes nothing whatsoever, earned a cool $425,000 and had a free luxury house on campus. This year, she's got a real job (for a year as a visiting professor) for $35K and benefits; it's going to feel like we're rolling in cash. This is after 30 years of education, including a doctorate in theoretical physics. The American university system may well have jumped the shark.

neilc 16y ago
the president of the university, who arguably contributes nothing whatsoever, earned a cool $425,000 and had a free luxury house on campus. University presidents may well be overpaid, but it is simply uninformed to claim that they "contribute nothing whatsoever." Besides setting the direction of the entire institution, an effective president will raise far more income for the school via fundraising than the cost of their salary.
- harry 16y ago
  This is true, the chancellor/president position really does the full time baby kissing for a University. It's hard to say that's not worth a half mil.
  - chadmalik 16y ago
    Actually, there are plenty of competent administrators who would probably work for ~ $150K plus benefits (no free house). Having administration who are paid like landed gentry while professors and grad students are paid peanuts and students have to engage huge amounts of debt relative to their expected future earnings IS THE PROBLEM.
    - harry 16y ago
      This is very true. We don't see too many administrators who are paid outrageously, our athletics department handles all of that. Highest paid state employee for a few years - the ex Coach Mangino.
      - chadmalik 16y ago
        For the big name schools, College football and basketball both generate huge revenues They are basically pro sports masquerading as collegiate activities. I don't have an issue with the coach of a team that in fact does generate millions getting a high salary. Arguably the US should have a club system similar to Euro soccer for football and basketball, or the NBA should start to pay higher than pennies for its minor league and the NFL should start a minor league limited to 18-22 year olds to groom players (NFL football is too rough for 18 year olds' bodies). I think the coach of a football program making a huge sum is different from the administrator of a college - for one thing, elite football coaching talent is in short supply. The supply of executives who can lead a university is not. Last I checked there are plenty of executives cooling their heels golfing etc. However I could be convinced to hold football/basketball coaching salaries way down as part of a movement to de-professionalize college athletics by sending the coaches who are really using college athletics as a way to huge salaries to the pros. The way it operates now is simply absurd, especially given that elite level players receive none of the spoils of filling stadiums during the prime athletic years of their lives. Back directly on topic, the problem with administrators making huge multiples of professors is it is attracting the wrong kind of people, i.e. profit maximizers who figure out how to funnel increasingly large sums of money into their own pockets. As an example consider the activities of the UC Regents: http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html
- Vivtek 16y ago
  Great. That's a wonderful justification for paying the majority of their actual instructors less than minimum wage with no benefits at all - then they can attract that guy to raise more money than they pay him. Sooner or later, America will have to start funding its research and its education as two separate services; the current model isn't working. It's just taking a very long time to be obvious.
  - neilc 16y ago
    It's not a "justification": the pay of instructors and the pay of university presidents are just two very different things. I don't really see what the point of comparing the two is. Sooner or later, America will have to start funding its research and its education as two separate services Well, this is at least partly the case today: NSF, NIH, and similar funding bodies support research. At most top research schools, very little (if any) of the money from undergrad tuition goes to support research. BTW, what about this is specific to the American education system? As far as I know, non-tenured instructors teach classes in many countries, and are usually poorly paid.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      At most top research schools, very little (if any) of the money from undergrad tuition goes to support research. But a large amount of the money devoted to research goes to support education/administration. Most universities will take about half of a grant as overhead.
- jimbokun 16y ago
  "Besides setting the direction of the entire institution, an effective president will raise far more income for the school via fundraising than the cost of their salary." To what end? The answer does not seem to be "providing a quality education to the university's students." So, regardless of the dollar amounts raised, "contribute nothing whatsoever" may very well be an accurate assessment of value. It depends on what that money is going towards, and what you consider a worthwhile contribution.
  - neilc 16y ago
    To what end does a university president raise money? Erm, well, it differs, but in general they are raising money for either new projects or the general endowment. Income from the endowment is typically used to support a wide variety of areas, many of which directly contribute to "providing a quality education to the university's students" -- scholarships, maintenance, staff, and so forth.
balding_n_tired 16y ago
Alvin Kernan quotes the Princeton professor who say his president browsing the university bookstore: Why is that man reading? He should be out raising money!
jacquesm 16y ago
Eight ? Or Eighty? Eight seems terribly small! edit: I just read on and you mention her new salary is $35K and it's a huge improvement but I find it still hard to believe that someone would actually go to work 15 hours per day for a $8K pay per year. That works out to be substantially less than minimum wage.
- wake_up_sticky 16y ago
  She didn't work fifteen hours a day. She taught fifteen credit hours.
  - jacquesm 16y ago
    Ah ok, I'm sorry I thought the '15 hour load' referred to the number of hours per day.
- starkfist 16y ago
  I looked into teaching math at a California community college and the pay was just under $2000 per course. A course was either 3 or 4 credits. $8K for 15 credit-hours worth of teaching in Indiana sounds about right. When my sister was an adjunct faculty at a big state school she made $17K a year.
  - fmora 16y ago
    Wow. I had no idea pays were this low. How do you live? Is the job really that great? Why put up with it? I started making 50K a year when I first graduated from college and I still complained it was too low after a year there. And now I think that making $100K a year is still too low. You need to choose a different career. Else no point in complaining.
- danielford 16y ago
  He's saying she's being paid eight thousand for teaching fifteen credits of classes in a single semester. Presumably she'd make another eight the next semester and a couple extra thousand in the summer. So probably $22,000 a year.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

by Vivtek 16y ago

neilc 16y ago

the president of the university, who arguably contributes nothing whatsoever, earned a cool $425,000 and had a free luxury house on campus. University presidents may well be overpaid, but it is simply uninformed to claim that they "contribute nothing whatsoever." Besides setting the direction of the entire institution, an effective president will raise far more income for the school via fundraising than the cost of their salary.

harry 16y ago
This is true, the chancellor/president position really does the full time baby kissing for a University. It's hard to say that's not worth a half mil.
- chadmalik 16y ago
  Actually, there are plenty of competent administrators who would probably work for ~ $150K plus benefits (no free house). Having administration who are paid like landed gentry while professors and grad students are paid peanuts and students have to engage huge amounts of debt relative to their expected future earnings IS THE PROBLEM.
  - harry 16y ago
    This is very true. We don't see too many administrators who are paid outrageously, our athletics department handles all of that. Highest paid state employee for a few years - the ex Coach Mangino.
    - chadmalik 16y ago
      For the big name schools, College football and basketball both generate huge revenues They are basically pro sports masquerading as collegiate activities. I don't have an issue with the coach of a team that in fact does generate millions getting a high salary. Arguably the US should have a club system similar to Euro soccer for football and basketball, or the NBA should start to pay higher than pennies for its minor league and the NFL should start a minor league limited to 18-22 year olds to groom players (NFL football is too rough for 18 year olds' bodies). I think the coach of a football program making a huge sum is different from the administrator of a college - for one thing, elite football coaching talent is in short supply. The supply of executives who can lead a university is not. Last I checked there are plenty of executives cooling their heels golfing etc. However I could be convinced to hold football/basketball coaching salaries way down as part of a movement to de-professionalize college athletics by sending the coaches who are really using college athletics as a way to huge salaries to the pros. The way it operates now is simply absurd, especially given that elite level players receive none of the spoils of filling stadiums during the prime athletic years of their lives. Back directly on topic, the problem with administrators making huge multiples of professors is it is attracting the wrong kind of people, i.e. profit maximizers who figure out how to funnel increasingly large sums of money into their own pockets. As an example consider the activities of the UC Regents: http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html http://www.metroactive.com/features/diploma-mills.html
Vivtek 16y ago
Great. That's a wonderful justification for paying the majority of their actual instructors less than minimum wage with no benefits at all - then they can attract that guy to raise more money than they pay him. Sooner or later, America will have to start funding its research and its education as two separate services; the current model isn't working. It's just taking a very long time to be obvious.
- neilc 16y ago
  It's not a "justification": the pay of instructors and the pay of university presidents are just two very different things. I don't really see what the point of comparing the two is. Sooner or later, America will have to start funding its research and its education as two separate services Well, this is at least partly the case today: NSF, NIH, and similar funding bodies support research. At most top research schools, very little (if any) of the money from undergrad tuition goes to support research. BTW, what about this is specific to the American education system? As far as I know, non-tenured instructors teach classes in many countries, and are usually poorly paid.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    At most top research schools, very little (if any) of the money from undergrad tuition goes to support research. But a large amount of the money devoted to research goes to support education/administration. Most universities will take about half of a grant as overhead.
jimbokun 16y ago
"Besides setting the direction of the entire institution, an effective president will raise far more income for the school via fundraising than the cost of their salary." To what end? The answer does not seem to be "providing a quality education to the university's students." So, regardless of the dollar amounts raised, "contribute nothing whatsoever" may very well be an accurate assessment of value. It depends on what that money is going towards, and what you consider a worthwhile contribution.
- neilc 16y ago
  To what end does a university president raise money? Erm, well, it differs, but in general they are raising money for either new projects or the general endowment. Income from the endowment is typically used to support a wide variety of areas, many of which directly contribute to "providing a quality education to the university's students" -- scholarships, maintenance, staff, and so forth.

balding_n_tired 16y ago

Alvin Kernan quotes the Princeton professor who say his president browsing the university bookstore: Why is that man reading? He should be out raising money!

jacquesm 16y ago

Eight ? Or Eighty? Eight seems terribly small! edit: I just read on and you mention her new salary is $35K and it's a huge improvement but I find it still hard to believe that someone would actually go to work 15 hours per day for a $8K pay per year. That works out to be substantially less than minimum wage.

wake_up_sticky 16y ago
She didn't work fifteen hours a day. She taught fifteen credit hours.
- jacquesm 16y ago
  Ah ok, I'm sorry I thought the '15 hour load' referred to the number of hours per day.
starkfist 16y ago
I looked into teaching math at a California community college and the pay was just under $2000 per course. A course was either 3 or 4 credits. $8K for 15 credit-hours worth of teaching in Indiana sounds about right. When my sister was an adjunct faculty at a big state school she made $17K a year.
- fmora 16y ago
  Wow. I had no idea pays were this low. How do you live? Is the job really that great? Why put up with it? I started making 50K a year when I first graduated from college and I still complained it was too low after a year there. And now I think that making $100K a year is still too low. You need to choose a different career. Else no point in complaining.
danielford 16y ago
He's saying she's being paid eight thousand for teaching fifteen credits of classes in a single semester. Presumably she'd make another eight the next semester and a couple extra thousand in the summer. So probably $22,000 a year.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]