14 ms·

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots o

by burnte 9y ago

I think we've seen Thiel do this before, indirectly fund opposition to organizations he doesn't like when he can't attack them directly. He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite hard to restrict rights at every level of government, including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against equal rights for gay people. He's a great representation that some people will align themselves with anyone to further their own personal agenda, without respect for how it might affect others. He's personally been outspoken about the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity, although I will give him credit for apologizing about his rape comments. I'm not saying this because I disagree with him politically, I just think he's not a great example of what kind of leaders we want moving forward, and given his behavior in the past, I wouldn't put this past him.

bufferoverflow 9y ago
He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  "I don't think people should all think alike, so I'll attack anyone who disagrees with me". Sound reasoning.
  - bufferoverflow 9y ago
    That's a straw man. He doesn't "attack anyone who disagrees with me".
- retailbuyout 9y ago
  I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.
  - npstr 9y ago
    What a sexist and racist comment.
  - bufferoverflow 9y ago
    Diversity of ideas (and good ideas specifically) comes from education, reading a lot, listening to smart people, thinking, and maybe a bit from genetics. You're concentrating too much on the skin color. We should push smart people, we should create the culture of smart, so people want to become smart.
    - ben_w 9y ago
      It also comes from different life experiences. If I’d made a period product based soley on what I’d been taught at school about women, it would definitely have been a business failure (as I found out by talking to a woman about my idea). You don’t have any way to know how different somebody’s life experiences have been until you ask them, but they’re more likely to be different if the sample set includes more gender, ethnic, nationality, sexuality, and religious diversity. Concrete example, the number of times Americans assume I have a SSN. Or, on a trip to Kenya, my host assumed I’d know how to say grace before a meal. Or how I came to Berlin and assumed that finding a flat would be as easy as it was in the UK. Edit: Just realised one obvious group I blindly forgot — poor people have very different experiences than rich people. $2/day absolute poverty, $10/day “you’re doing well by Kenyan standards”, $100/day Harlem average (chosen because it’s what non-Americans think of as a poor bit of America). All different from each other, all different lives from us, even if we don’t call ourselves rich.
      - dx034 9y ago
        Yes but you can hire a lot of people with different skin color that all went to the same university, grew up in the same rich neighbourhood and will have no diversity of ideas. A group of people with one gender and color of skin from the same country (to be less US centric) will often have little diversity in their ideas. But just by making sure to have x% of non-white employees you won't necessarily reach that either.
- c3534l 9y ago
  Yeah, I'm not necessarily a fan of Thiel, but there's an unjustified hysteria growing about him that seems like the left's version of Soros hysteria. Any time I see Thiel mentioned, people seem to want to twist his words into a generic evil regressive.
  - glenneroo 9y ago
    Have you seen the documentary "Nobody Speak: Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and Trials of a Free Press" on Netflix? Granted documentaries are generally biased, it shows some of Thiel's actions that could be construed as somewhat evil.
- Jack000 9y ago
  Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. imo it is a goal to strive for. Unlike humans, ideas are not created equal - some must be bitterly fought against. The "Diversity of ideas" meme is the "embrace, extend, extinguish" of political ideas, you can basically use it to promote any idea that's unpopular.
  - omginternets 9y ago
    >Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. Is it? It's a priori possible that certain cultures tend to hold certain values that contribute to their success in initially-diverse societies, and as such will be over-represented down the road. I don't know if this is actually the case; the point is rather to show that your position -- which is common in those who explicitly support mulitculturalist policy -- begs the question. In practice, it amounts to a proclamation of faith.
- notahacker 9y ago
  The PayPal culture Thiel took pride in was so keen on "diversity of ideas" that Levchin once boasted about not hiring an engineer on the basis that in his spare time he liked to "shoot some hoops" which didn't sound like something someone in the white nerd monoculture they'd created would do...
mrschwabe 9y ago
Seems clear you are eluding to his endorsement and $1m contribution to the Trump campaign. We share different views - I am happy to disagree with you because I think Peter Thiel is to be commended for conducting business in line with his own philosophical & political views: this is perhaps the entire goal of business. From my perspective, he clearly sees the need for change in this world and works diligently to see that his vision can come about via the best possible tool that one has to do that: business. Just so happens he has the means to move a lot of capital around so his vision can more easily come about - here's rooting for him and his libertarian visions to come true.
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history. Whether you believe Gawker deserved it or not, he used Terry Bollea (Hogan) as a prop to push his own agenda.
  - jpttsn 9y ago
    Putin and Xi must be relieved to hear that Gawker going bankrupt is “one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history.”
    - dguaraglia 9y ago
      Context is everything, isn't it? If I said that the North Bay fires were one of the biggest tragedies in recent memory, you wouldn't chastise me for not mentioning the Rohingya pogroms, would you?
      - jpttsn 9y ago
        I wouldn’t say I chastised you.
    - CalChris 9y ago
      Whataboutism.
factsaresacred 9y ago
> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is because I sense once again an attempt to shame Thiel for his views rather than parse them for merit. During last year's election we had a similar form of hysteria in these threads because Thiel dared to exercise his right to donate to a cause he supports. Really wish this 'shame as an argument' tactic would cease. Edit to provide evidence of the 'downside of diversity': http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/...
- sdoering 9y ago
  And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves. So it seems to me that people using arguing strategies like you just seem to have done are eroding "trust" in a rational discussion more then anything else. Tactics like these are well below what I personally would classify as honorable discussion.
  - factsaresacred 9y ago
    Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings. "The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist. http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/...
retailbuyout 9y ago
I mean honestly at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the koch brothers adopted him.
jondubois 9y ago
Yes it's ironic that he wants to break up Google for being a monopoly but he has no problem with Facebook being a monopoly. I'm pretty sure that Facebook's monopoly is at least as dangerous as Google's, if not more dangerous.
- te_chris 9y ago
  He's on the board of facebook.
- thrill 9y ago
  Often you don't have to destroy something big to get it to change behavior - some good stings in crucial spots can be effective.
- CuriouslyC 9y ago
  I'm not nearly as worried about Facebook as Google. I don't really use Facebook, and it isn't that hard of a service to drop. On the other hand, switching to non-Google search/maps/email is painful, particularly given the benefits of integration these services provide.
buttcoinslol 9y ago
Perhaps placing wealth and success above all else is... bad?
- curtisblaine 9y ago
  It entirely depends on your ethics system.
  - buttcoinslol 9y ago
    It might surprise you that as you acquire wealth and power that your ethics and values change.
ddorian43 9y ago
You put the quotes because you disagree with him though.
lhnz 9y ago
> He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite > hard to restrict rights at every level of government, > including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against > equal rights for gay people. I don't really understand this. Isn't he gay? He doesn't seem an idiot to me so perhaps he doesn't see his actions in the same light as you do.
- zackbloom 9y ago
  In a society where access to everything from justice to healthcare is wealth-driven, being rich will always be a stronger identity than any other. He might be gay, but he's rich and gay, which means he is not effected by essentially any anti-gay policy you could reasonably pass in the US. Even if being gay was banned, nobody is coming for the billionaires or their lovers anytime soon! If you assume that his primary motivation is the acquisition of wealth and power, and that that gives him much more freedom than any gay rights bill could, it makes more sense. Of course it also makes him a prick.
  - ashleyn 9y ago
    To really hammer this point home, read the story of Sarah Rector, a black girl who had come across such extreme oil wealth that the town legally declared her white.
curtisblaine 9y ago
BTW I don't understand how fully-diverse, equally-represented companies haven't taken advantage of their unfair advantage and taken over the world yet :)
- Vinnl 9y ago
  Well, that can be difficult if your diverse, equally-represented employees were not able to enjoy e.g. the education and upbringing of some non-diverse under-represented institutions and homes...
  - curtisblaine 9y ago
    So you're saying that hiring diverse, equally-represented employees is actually a risk for my company in terms of employee throughput and capabilities? It starts to sound as a disadvantage...
    - Vinnl 9y ago
      I'm saying that if we want a more diverse workforce, we need to address more than just hiring practices. But yes, companies might need external incentives at the moment to prevent it from being a disadvantage.
      - curtisblaine 9y ago
        So you're saying that the perceived "competitive advantage of diversity" is only an empty slogan, and diversity is actually a disadvantage in the real world?
        Vinnl 9y ago
        I'm saying that it might not always weigh up against the disadvantage the diverse workforce have accrued over the years, and that that will likely remain the case unless we're doing something about that. (Which is often being done.) And hence, that some sort of external motivation may be needed to make it weigh up against that at present, which would eventually lead to it simply being a competitive advantage.
glenneroo 9y ago
Netflix recently added a documentary called ""Nobody Speak: Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and Trials of a Free Press" which also reveals some insight into Thiel's funding.
- forgot-my-pw 9y ago
  What's the spoiler?
  - scruple 9y ago
    IIRC, they tried to make a first amendment argument about ... releasing someones sex tape without their consent. Oh, and, of course, calling that "journalism."
    - glenneroo 9y ago
      If that's all you got out of it, you should watch it again. Or maybe just read this synopsis: http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-hulk-hogan-peter-thiel-movie-2017-6 http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-h...
      - scruple 9y ago
        Okay, sure. If I gave a more charitable spoiler, it might be: The documentary expresses that society requires an independent free press. That's their main point. Trying to make that point through the Gawker case is, IMHO, completely divorced from reality.
  - glenneroo 9y ago
    I copied the relevant bit from here (http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-hulk-hogan-peter-thiel-movie-2017-6?r=US&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-h...): > But two months after the verdict, it was revealed that Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel was responsible for financing Hogan's case against Gawker. It was also revealed that the major motivation for Thiel to do that was less because he was sympathetic to what Hogan was going through and more that he wanted Denton and Gawker to feel his wrath after the site ran a story in 2007 outing him as being gay.

by burnte 9y ago

bufferoverflow 9y ago

He's quite clear about multiculturalism and diversity - he is criticizing the premise that pushing the people "who look different, but think alike" is not as productive as progressives think. He wants the diversity of ideas, regardless of ethnicities and skin colors.

dguaraglia 9y ago
"I don't think people should all think alike, so I'll attack anyone who disagrees with me". Sound reasoning.
- bufferoverflow 9y ago
  That's a straw man. He doesn't "attack anyone who disagrees with me".
retailbuyout 9y ago
I mean, if you think you can get max diversity of ideas without also pulling people from different cultures, you’ve been around way too many white men.
- npstr 9y ago
  What a sexist and racist comment.
- bufferoverflow 9y ago
  Diversity of ideas (and good ideas specifically) comes from education, reading a lot, listening to smart people, thinking, and maybe a bit from genetics. You're concentrating too much on the skin color. We should push smart people, we should create the culture of smart, so people want to become smart.
  - ben_w 9y ago
    It also comes from different life experiences. If I’d made a period product based soley on what I’d been taught at school about women, it would definitely have been a business failure (as I found out by talking to a woman about my idea). You don’t have any way to know how different somebody’s life experiences have been until you ask them, but they’re more likely to be different if the sample set includes more gender, ethnic, nationality, sexuality, and religious diversity. Concrete example, the number of times Americans assume I have a SSN. Or, on a trip to Kenya, my host assumed I’d know how to say grace before a meal. Or how I came to Berlin and assumed that finding a flat would be as easy as it was in the UK. Edit: Just realised one obvious group I blindly forgot — poor people have very different experiences than rich people. $2/day absolute poverty, $10/day “you’re doing well by Kenyan standards”, $100/day Harlem average (chosen because it’s what non-Americans think of as a poor bit of America). All different from each other, all different lives from us, even if we don’t call ourselves rich.
    - dx034 9y ago
      Yes but you can hire a lot of people with different skin color that all went to the same university, grew up in the same rich neighbourhood and will have no diversity of ideas. A group of people with one gender and color of skin from the same country (to be less US centric) will often have little diversity in their ideas. But just by making sure to have x% of non-white employees you won't necessarily reach that either.
c3534l 9y ago
Yeah, I'm not necessarily a fan of Thiel, but there's an unjustified hysteria growing about him that seems like the left's version of Soros hysteria. Any time I see Thiel mentioned, people seem to want to twist his words into a generic evil regressive.
- glenneroo 9y ago
  Have you seen the documentary "Nobody Speak: Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and Trials of a Free Press" on Netflix? Granted documentaries are generally biased, it shows some of Thiel's actions that could be construed as somewhat evil.
Jack000 9y ago
Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. imo it is a goal to strive for. Unlike humans, ideas are not created equal - some must be bitterly fought against. The "Diversity of ideas" meme is the "embrace, extend, extinguish" of political ideas, you can basically use it to promote any idea that's unpopular.
- omginternets 9y ago
  >Cultural diversity is the end result of an egalitarian society that doesn't place any particular culture above others. Is it? It's a priori possible that certain cultures tend to hold certain values that contribute to their success in initially-diverse societies, and as such will be over-represented down the road. I don't know if this is actually the case; the point is rather to show that your position -- which is common in those who explicitly support mulitculturalist policy -- begs the question. In practice, it amounts to a proclamation of faith.
notahacker 9y ago
The PayPal culture Thiel took pride in was so keen on "diversity of ideas" that Levchin once boasted about not hiring an engineer on the basis that in his spare time he liked to "shoot some hoops" which didn't sound like something someone in the white nerd monoculture they'd created would do...

mrschwabe 9y ago

Seems clear you are eluding to his endorsement and $1m contribution to the Trump campaign. We share different views - I am happy to disagree with you because I think Peter Thiel is to be commended for conducting business in line with his own philosophical & political views: this is perhaps the entire goal of business. From my perspective, he clearly sees the need for change in this world and works diligently to see that his vision can come about via the best possible tool that one has to do that: business. Just so happens he has the means to move a lot of capital around so his vision can more easily come about - here's rooting for him and his libertarian visions to come true.

dguaraglia 9y ago
No, I'm pretty sure he's referring to the whole Gawker vs. Hulk Hogan trial thing, which was one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history. Whether you believe Gawker deserved it or not, he used Terry Bollea (Hogan) as a prop to push his own agenda.
- jpttsn 9y ago
  Putin and Xi must be relieved to hear that Gawker going bankrupt is “one of the biggest attacks on freedom of the press in recent history.”
  - dguaraglia 9y ago
    Context is everything, isn't it? If I said that the North Bay fires were one of the biggest tragedies in recent memory, you wouldn't chastise me for not mentioning the Rohingya pogroms, would you?
    - jpttsn 9y ago
      I wouldn’t say I chastised you.
  - CalChris 9y ago
    Whataboutism.

factsaresacred 9y ago

> the "dangers" of multiculturalism, gender and ethnic diversity I don't know if "dangers" is your word or his, but it's been shown (a priori and a posteriori) that multiculturalism and ethnic diversity erodes trust and causes social strive. This is opposed to cultural pluralism, where a dominant culture exists and tolerates additional values that don't erode or threaten the dominant culture. The reason I comment is because I sense once again an attempt to shame Thiel for his views rather than parse them for merit. During last year's election we had a similar form of hysteria in these threads because Thiel dared to exercise his right to donate to a cause he supports. Really wish this 'shame as an argument' tactic would cease. Edit to provide evidence of the 'downside of diversity': http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/...

sdoering 9y ago
And your unquoted "proof" is gathered exactly how? You state something as a standing fact without giving us the ability to check the stated facts (and underlying methodologies) ourselves. So it seems to me that people using arguing strategies like you just seem to have done are eroding "trust" in a rational discussion more then anything else. Tactics like these are well below what I personally would classify as honorable discussion.
- factsaresacred 9y ago
  Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings. "The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist. http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/...

retailbuyout 9y ago

I mean honestly at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if the koch brothers adopted him.

jondubois 9y ago

Yes it's ironic that he wants to break up Google for being a monopoly but he has no problem with Facebook being a monopoly. I'm pretty sure that Facebook's monopoly is at least as dangerous as Google's, if not more dangerous.

te_chris 9y ago
He's on the board of facebook.
thrill 9y ago
Often you don't have to destroy something big to get it to change behavior - some good stings in crucial spots can be effective.
CuriouslyC 9y ago
I'm not nearly as worried about Facebook as Google. I don't really use Facebook, and it isn't that hard of a service to drop. On the other hand, switching to non-Google search/maps/email is painful, particularly given the benefits of integration these services provide.

buttcoinslol 9y ago

Perhaps placing wealth and success above all else is... bad?

curtisblaine 9y ago
It entirely depends on your ethics system.
- buttcoinslol 9y ago
  It might surprise you that as you acquire wealth and power that your ethics and values change.

ddorian43 9y ago

You put the quotes because you disagree with him though.

lhnz 9y ago

> He's also funded lots of politicians that work quite > hard to restrict rights at every level of government, > including, frankly, that are rather adamantly against > equal rights for gay people. I don't really understand this. Isn't he gay? He doesn't seem an idiot to me so perhaps he doesn't see his actions in the same light as you do.

zackbloom 9y ago
In a society where access to everything from justice to healthcare is wealth-driven, being rich will always be a stronger identity than any other. He might be gay, but he's rich and gay, which means he is not effected by essentially any anti-gay policy you could reasonably pass in the US. Even if being gay was banned, nobody is coming for the billionaires or their lovers anytime soon! If you assume that his primary motivation is the acquisition of wealth and power, and that that gives him much more freedom than any gay rights bill could, it makes more sense. Of course it also makes him a prick.
- ashleyn 9y ago
  To really hammer this point home, read the story of Sarah Rector, a black girl who had come across such extreme oil wealth that the town legally declared her white.

curtisblaine 9y ago

BTW I don't understand how fully-diverse, equally-represented companies haven't taken advantage of their unfair advantage and taken over the world yet :)

Vinnl 9y ago
Well, that can be difficult if your diverse, equally-represented employees were not able to enjoy e.g. the education and upbringing of some non-diverse under-represented institutions and homes...
- curtisblaine 9y ago
  So you're saying that hiring diverse, equally-represented employees is actually a risk for my company in terms of employee throughput and capabilities? It starts to sound as a disadvantage...
  - Vinnl 9y ago
    I'm saying that if we want a more diverse workforce, we need to address more than just hiring practices. But yes, companies might need external incentives at the moment to prevent it from being a disadvantage.
    - curtisblaine 9y ago
      So you're saying that the perceived "competitive advantage of diversity" is only an empty slogan, and diversity is actually a disadvantage in the real world?
      - Vinnl 9y ago
        I'm saying that it might not always weigh up against the disadvantage the diverse workforce have accrued over the years, and that that will likely remain the case unless we're doing something about that. (Which is often being done.) And hence, that some sort of external motivation may be needed to make it weigh up against that at present, which would eventually lead to it simply being a competitive advantage.

glenneroo 9y ago

Netflix recently added a documentary called ""Nobody Speak: Hulk Hogan, Gawker, and Trials of a Free Press" which also reveals some insight into Thiel's funding.

forgot-my-pw 9y ago
What's the spoiler?
- scruple 9y ago
  IIRC, they tried to make a first amendment argument about ... releasing someones sex tape without their consent. Oh, and, of course, calling that "journalism."
  - glenneroo 9y ago
    If that's all you got out of it, you should watch it again. Or maybe just read this synopsis: http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-hulk-hogan-peter-thiel-movie-2017-6 http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-h...
    - scruple 9y ago
      Okay, sure. If I gave a more charitable spoiler, it might be: The documentary expresses that society requires an independent free press. That's their main point. Trying to make that point through the Gawker case is, IMHO, completely divorced from reality.
- glenneroo 9y ago
  I copied the relevant bit from here (http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-hulk-hogan-peter-thiel-movie-2017-6?r=US&IR=T http://www.businessinsider.de/sundance-nobody-speak-gawker-h...): > But two months after the verdict, it was revealed that Silicon Valley billionaire Peter Thiel was responsible for financing Hogan's case against Gawker. It was also revealed that the major motivation for Thiel to do that was less because he was sympathetic to what Hogan was going through and more that he wanted Denton and Gawker to feel his wrath after the site ran a story in 2007 outing him as being gay.