6 ms·

Square announces pilot program to accept Bitcoin

88 points by matt_wulfeck 9y ago

MBCook 9y ago
This appears to be support for people to buy/sell bitcoin, not to buy/sell WITH bitcoin. Can anyone confirm which it is?
- lcusack 9y ago
  Yes, this is in the Square Cash app not their POS product.
  - MBCook 9y ago
    Thanks. Still interesting though. Who holds the wallet? Can I spend my bitcoins at non-bitcoin merchants using the physical card they offer? It doesn’t look like Square Cash supports other countries or currencies, I suppose this would be a bit of a way around that.
    - lcusack 9y ago
      yeah, those are interesting questions. I assume either they hold the wallet or some exchange they are using behind the scenes. It would make a lot of sense if you could start using your Square Cash Card funded by BTC. That would be cool from a long term vision. I've been using the Shift Card for a few months which functions like a debit card but is funded from my BTC on coinbase.
dna_polymerase 9y ago
Why would they implement Bitcoin. Guys, seriously Ethereum is a way better method for actual payments. Shorter block times, the network is not congested at all, and they already process more transactions than BTC does per day.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Really? Bitcoin has name recognition with the general public. Full stop. Whatever the technical advantages/disadvantages are between those two (and any others) I imagine only Bitcoin has enough demand for them to think it would be worthwhile to implement.
  - LyndsySimon 9y ago
    With services like Shapeshift, it almost doesn't make sense at all to tie yourself to a single blockchain.
  - uncletammy 9y ago
    > Bitcoin has name recognition with the general public. I completely agree. Furthermore, this is the exact reason the miners, business, and community need to kill the Bitcoin chain and hand the title over to Bitcoin Cash which might actually be worth building infrastructure on.
- PKop 9y ago
  Square cash is also a much better way for actual payments. So perhaps the use case is not "for payments", but as a savings account. Bitcoin as store-of-value..
- throwtor222 9y ago
  This is a typical case of seeing things through engineering glasses instead of looking at the business case. The technology is not the limiting factor at this time. Bitcoin has more credibility, more volume, larger community, etc.
- gruez 9y ago
  >Guys, seriously Ethereum is a way better method for actual payments. >Shorter block times transaction security is proportional to confirmation time, not # of blocks. if you want even faster "block times", you can accept 0conf transactions. although to be fair it does allow you to be more flexible in terms of confirmation policy (you can't set your policy to confirm on 0.2 blocks). >the network is not congested at all ...with a blockchain that's growing at a rate that's over 3x of bitcoin. in the same respect, you can argue that litecoin is better because it has faster blocks, lower fees, and no congestion. >they already process more transactions than BTC does per day see point about network congestion.
DalasNoin 9y ago
Seems like bad timing, the transaction fees compared to other crypto currencies are massive right now[1] and the transaction speed is just as bad, with 70.000 pending transactions[2]. Im assume that this situation is going to become better. Apparently one reason is, that segwit transaction space is barely used at the moment. [1]https://bitinfocharts.com/de/comparison/transactionfees-btc-eth.html#6m https://bitinfocharts.com/de/comparison/transactionfees-btc-... [2]https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h
- DrJid 9y ago
  I think you're assuming that Square is going to do all of bitcoin transactions on chain. I reckon they will handle most of these in their internal ledger the exact same way they handle USD type transactions. BTC could only move from the core secure wallets when BTC are leaving their systems.
  - DalasNoin 9y ago
    There is probably no other way than to do it off-chain. I guess the transactions required to send your bitcoin to a wallet(if this feature will be enabled) might already be a problem. but this brings us to the entire bitcoin as a store of value idea, square will probably avoid the fees with bulk purchase of bitcoins. I have a big problem with that, bitcoin block rewards relative to the total value of bitcoin are going to decline over time. After the 2020 halving the block reward will be less than 2% the value of the network[1]. i assume satoshi imagined that overtime people will use transaction fees to secure the network. with bitcoin core moving to off chain solutions with no fees, i dont see how this will work out. [1]http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/ http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
    - scientaster 9y ago
      Unfortunately, since everything is off chain in third parties' hands, bitcoin is slowly becoming what it meant to replace.
- xorcist 9y ago
standupstandup 9y ago
Digital currency trading firm Genesis Global Trading found bitcoin tends to recover dramatically from large drops. The last four times bitcoin has fallen more than 20 percent this year, it has gained an average 28 percent in the two weeks following, and an average 61.5 percent in the four weeks following, the analysis showed. https://medium.com/@bitfinexed https://medium.com/@bitfinexed to find out why
olegkikin 9y ago
They should really accept multiple cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is too slow now with the blocks full. At least Ethereum, Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash should be considered.
- Casseres 9y ago
  If Square wants to be a cash intermediary, they should offer Monero. It's the most cash-like coin available since it's the only one that's fungible - an important aspect of any currency. The only problem is that it's not as recognized as Bitcoin, so maybe they're just trying to attract publicity and new users?
  - imnotatwork 9y ago
    The ring signatures have a big scalability problem, and the cryptographoic strenght of the monero anonymity is all but proven. Monero is an interesting experiment but its feasibility as a long term store of value is to be provem. Also, moving some transactions off-chain transaction will effectively mix the coins and strenght anonymity.
nickporter 9y ago
From the info I've seen, it looks like the app doesn't allow you to transfer btc right now. You can use it to buy, sell or hodl btc only.
hotfire 9y ago
I wonder how they hedge price fluctuations
- imnotatwork 9y ago
  Really holding user's coins?
nikolay 9y ago
What a neat marketing trick! As nobody uses Square Cash today, they want to attract the loyal-to-death Bitcoin crowd in hopes to save their product as pretty much everybody's using Venmo now and Cash didn't get any adoption.
- Operyl 9y ago
  I guess I'm nobody then, as are the 30 or so friends I have that send money to each other using Cash.
  - nikolay 9y ago
    But why? What's wrong with Venmo?
    - Operyl 9y ago
      Sending money to your debit card was free for a time, and I had no problem sending 400-500 bucks to a friend same day as a result. At this point, it’s just a matter of “why switch?”

88 points by matt_wulfeck 9y ago

This appears to be support for people to buy/sell bitcoin, not to buy/sell WITH bitcoin. Can anyone confirm which it is?

lcusack 9y ago
Yes, this is in the Square Cash app not their POS product.
- MBCook 9y ago
  Thanks. Still interesting though. Who holds the wallet? Can I spend my bitcoins at non-bitcoin merchants using the physical card they offer? It doesn’t look like Square Cash supports other countries or currencies, I suppose this would be a bit of a way around that.
  - lcusack 9y ago
    yeah, those are interesting questions. I assume either they hold the wallet or some exchange they are using behind the scenes. It would make a lot of sense if you could start using your Square Cash Card funded by BTC. That would be cool from a long term vision. I've been using the Shift Card for a few months which functions like a debit card but is funded from my BTC on coinbase.

dna_polymerase 9y ago

Why would they implement Bitcoin. Guys, seriously Ethereum is a way better method for actual payments. Shorter block times, the network is not congested at all, and they already process more transactions than BTC does per day.

MBCook 9y ago
Really? Bitcoin has name recognition with the general public. Full stop. Whatever the technical advantages/disadvantages are between those two (and any others) I imagine only Bitcoin has enough demand for them to think it would be worthwhile to implement.
- LyndsySimon 9y ago
  With services like Shapeshift, it almost doesn't make sense at all to tie yourself to a single blockchain.
- uncletammy 9y ago
  > Bitcoin has name recognition with the general public. I completely agree. Furthermore, this is the exact reason the miners, business, and community need to kill the Bitcoin chain and hand the title over to Bitcoin Cash which might actually be worth building infrastructure on.
PKop 9y ago
Square cash is also a much better way for actual payments. So perhaps the use case is not "for payments", but as a savings account. Bitcoin as store-of-value..
throwtor222 9y ago
This is a typical case of seeing things through engineering glasses instead of looking at the business case. The technology is not the limiting factor at this time. Bitcoin has more credibility, more volume, larger community, etc.
gruez 9y ago
>Guys, seriously Ethereum is a way better method for actual payments. >Shorter block times transaction security is proportional to confirmation time, not # of blocks. if you want even faster "block times", you can accept 0conf transactions. although to be fair it does allow you to be more flexible in terms of confirmation policy (you can't set your policy to confirm on 0.2 blocks). >the network is not congested at all ...with a blockchain that's growing at a rate that's over 3x of bitcoin. in the same respect, you can argue that litecoin is better because it has faster blocks, lower fees, and no congestion. >they already process more transactions than BTC does per day see point about network congestion.

DalasNoin 9y ago

Seems like bad timing, the transaction fees compared to other crypto currencies are massive right now[1] and the transaction speed is just as bad, with 70.000 pending transactions[2]. Im assume that this situation is going to become better. Apparently one reason is, that segwit transaction space is barely used at the moment. [1]https://bitinfocharts.com/de/comparison/transactionfees-btc-eth.html#6m https://bitinfocharts.com/de/comparison/transactionfees-btc-... [2]https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#24h

DrJid 9y ago
I think you're assuming that Square is going to do all of bitcoin transactions on chain. I reckon they will handle most of these in their internal ledger the exact same way they handle USD type transactions. BTC could only move from the core secure wallets when BTC are leaving their systems.
- DalasNoin 9y ago
  There is probably no other way than to do it off-chain. I guess the transactions required to send your bitcoin to a wallet(if this feature will be enabled) might already be a problem. but this brings us to the entire bitcoin as a store of value idea, square will probably avoid the fees with bulk purchase of bitcoins. I have a big problem with that, bitcoin block rewards relative to the total value of bitcoin are going to decline over time. After the 2020 halving the block reward will be less than 2% the value of the network[1]. i assume satoshi imagined that overtime people will use transaction fees to secure the network. with bitcoin core moving to off chain solutions with no fees, i dont see how this will work out. [1]http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/ http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/
  - scientaster 9y ago
    Unfortunately, since everything is off chain in third parties' hands, bitcoin is slowly becoming what it meant to replace.
xorcist 9y ago

standupstandup 9y ago

Digital currency trading firm Genesis Global Trading found bitcoin tends to recover dramatically from large drops. The last four times bitcoin has fallen more than 20 percent this year, it has gained an average 28 percent in the two weeks following, and an average 61.5 percent in the four weeks following, the analysis showed. https://medium.com/@bitfinexed https://medium.com/@bitfinexed to find out why

olegkikin 9y ago

They should really accept multiple cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is too slow now with the blocks full. At least Ethereum, Litecoin and Bitcoin Cash should be considered.

Casseres 9y ago
If Square wants to be a cash intermediary, they should offer Monero. It's the most cash-like coin available since it's the only one that's fungible - an important aspect of any currency. The only problem is that it's not as recognized as Bitcoin, so maybe they're just trying to attract publicity and new users?
- imnotatwork 9y ago
  The ring signatures have a big scalability problem, and the cryptographoic strenght of the monero anonymity is all but proven. Monero is an interesting experiment but its feasibility as a long term store of value is to be provem. Also, moving some transactions off-chain transaction will effectively mix the coins and strenght anonymity.

nickporter 9y ago

From the info I've seen, it looks like the app doesn't allow you to transfer btc right now. You can use it to buy, sell or hodl btc only.

hotfire 9y ago

I wonder how they hedge price fluctuations

imnotatwork 9y ago
Really holding user's coins?

nikolay 9y ago

What a neat marketing trick! As nobody uses Square Cash today, they want to attract the loyal-to-death Bitcoin crowd in hopes to save their product as pretty much everybody's using Venmo now and Cash didn't get any adoption.

Operyl 9y ago
I guess I'm nobody then, as are the 30 or so friends I have that send money to each other using Cash.
- nikolay 9y ago
  But why? What's wrong with Venmo?
  - Operyl 9y ago
    Sending money to your debit card was free for a time, and I had no problem sending 400-500 bucks to a friend same day as a result. At this point, it’s just a matter of “why switch?”