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Because China doesn't believe in God but in Science. In the US we rather subsidize churches to the tune of $70B a year than to invest in computing infrastructur

Because China doesn't believe in God but in Science. In the US we rather subsidize churches to the tune of $70B a year than to invest in computing infrastructure.

gscott 9y ago
Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Trying to judge churches on what some fringe groups and politicians do is short-sighted.
- civilitty 9y ago
  We're talking about the United States so that's at least a third of the electorate, one that has an over sized influence on politics due to a combination of gerrymandering and voter suppression. These aren't some "fringe groups and politicians" but the prevailing religious ideology of the party in power across all three branches of governments. The American protestant churches are to Christianity what the Society of Saint Pius X is to the Roman Catholic Church and it's a big enough group of people that it can stand judgement on its own. As for the services churches provide - the whole point of taxes is pooling capital that the government can use to more efficiently provide far better services to its constituents than any non-governmental organization can. If the churches were actually capable of providing those services beyond largely superficial displays of charity and piety, we wouldn't need government to begin with.
  - gscott 9y ago
    If Government was capable of this it would be great. In San Diego they are putting up 3 tents for homeless at a cost of six million dollars. Wasting money is no problem for the Government. On the otherhand the San Diego Interfaith shelter project uses 70 local churches to shelter the homeless http://interfaithshelter.org/ http://interfaithshelter.org/
- walkingolof 9y ago
  That service should be provided by the government, not a privileged special interest group.
  - eksu 9y ago
    The government should be providing a sense of community and belief system?
    - icebraining 9y ago
      So they need $70B to provide a sense of community and belief system?
      - gscott 9y ago
        They already indoctrinate children with a belief system through public schools. Liberal types are going crazy over charter schools where children get a better education but less indoctrination (both of my children have gone to public schools and charter schools). Another 70 billion to do more of this? I don't think so.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - tete 9y ago
    I agree, however as someone coming from Europe I don't think that's easily possible. The US seems to require means that don't sound socialist/communist to some people. A lot of investment and subsidization into common good seems to go the route through lowered or absence of taxes and other laws (non profits, churches, etc.) and military (either research, that is later released to the public, and that's not just GPS or infrastructure and services, welfare, education for the poor, if they join the military). To me it seems that both churches and military investment (in the very broad) are essential and integral for the stability of the US. I think whether this should be changed is debatable, however I don't think this can be done over night, as it would destroy said stability. Even if a majority could be gained for such a project I think it would have to be a very slow process, as so many other things are built on this foundation and many things seem to have been optimized for this system over time. However, I am not an expert by any means and just rely on what I see, hear and think when I compare it with Europe. The only thing I have learned is that telling people to do it like others isn't something that can just be done - while keeping some stability that is.
- lordfoom 9y ago
  >Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Nah.
Invictus0 9y ago
Yeah, as if China spends every dime efficiently... Their Great Firewall and associated censorship likely adds up to tens of billions per year.
pjmlp 9y ago
And they even sign the climate agreements.
- adventured 9y ago
  While producing three times the CO2 output per dollar of GDP that the US does, with no intention of slowing their CO2 growth at all. Quite the accomplishment, signing some agreements that hold them accountable to nothing, while the US is actually reducing its CO2 emissions by abandoning coal.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    I though your government was stating there is no need to protect the environment, as it is the product of a collective phantasy of so called researchers.
  - averagewall 9y ago
    Per GDP dollar? That scales with population so you're basically saying bigger countries emit more CO2. You cherry picked a way of measuring it that makes it look bad but hides the underlying cause that's not bad - lots of people. Per capita, the US has double the CO2 emissions than China. No intention of slowing it? They're building more nuclear plants than anyone else.
  - Boothroid 9y ago
    I'd be willing to bet that the US's lifetime emissions vastly outweigh China's lifetime emissions. The US is in no position to lecture anyone.
tete 9y ago
On the government level, maybe. On the overall population it's interesting. Many people don't consider themselves religious, when they do practice rituals to please gods. I however am not sure how much of this is tradition and habit, vs believing. Nevertheless, I found it interesting how practicing "Chinese folk religion" and still calling yourself an atheist seems to not really raise eyebrows. It would be interesting to hear of someone having more insight, as I only got this off the internet.
- tmalsburg2 9y ago
  Atheism means literally "no god-ism", and since there are religious belief systems that don't involve gods, there is not necessarily a contradiction here.
odiroot 9y ago
China, as you so easily collectively defined, believes in million things; not better and not worse than US believers. Yours is really an useless argument. This is more about consolidation of power.
thejosh 9y ago
Yeah, its citizens are free to do what they please, right.
lin_lin 9y ago
Hilarious shoe-horning in of your personal gripe. When was the vote to decide between computing funding and religious stuff?
- wellboy 9y ago
  If the $70B werent used for the church it would be used for other things, including supercomputing. His statement has some weight.
  - lin_lin 9y ago
    > including supercomputing No, not true at all. > His statement has some weight. Only in so far as you could make the argument about any of the other spendings of the US government and shoe-horn it in.
- ssijak 9y ago
  Well, you also have Kathleen Hartnett White as the new head of the White House’s Council on Environmental Quality who majored in religion and is global warming denier. And many other.
  - lin_lin 9y ago
    I fail to see what that has to do with supercomputing funding/underfunding due to religious stuff (which I'm guessing is tax breaks).
adventured 9y ago
China is extremely mystical in fact. If you had spent any time there, or knew anything about their culture, you'd already understand that. It's not uncommon, it's completely widspread throughout their society. See: their cultural obsessions with numerology, superstitions, fate, luck, etc.
sremani 9y ago
Intel, AMD, Nvidia are American companies, I certainly do not see what believing God has to do with Chinese computing. Do you know that Issac Newton spent a third of his time trying to decipher "secrets" and prophecies of bible? God or Science is a false choice, its usually propagated by people who know price of everything and value of nothing!

Because China doesn't believe in God but in Science. In the US we rather subsidize churches to the tune of $70B a year than to invest in computing infrastructure.

gscott 9y ago

Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Trying to judge churches on what some fringe groups and politicians do is short-sighted.

civilitty 9y ago
We're talking about the United States so that's at least a third of the electorate, one that has an over sized influence on politics due to a combination of gerrymandering and voter suppression. These aren't some "fringe groups and politicians" but the prevailing religious ideology of the party in power across all three branches of governments. The American protestant churches are to Christianity what the Society of Saint Pius X is to the Roman Catholic Church and it's a big enough group of people that it can stand judgement on its own. As for the services churches provide - the whole point of taxes is pooling capital that the government can use to more efficiently provide far better services to its constituents than any non-governmental organization can. If the churches were actually capable of providing those services beyond largely superficial displays of charity and piety, we wouldn't need government to begin with.
- gscott 9y ago
  If Government was capable of this it would be great. In San Diego they are putting up 3 tents for homeless at a cost of six million dollars. Wasting money is no problem for the Government. On the otherhand the San Diego Interfaith shelter project uses 70 local churches to shelter the homeless http://interfaithshelter.org/ http://interfaithshelter.org/
walkingolof 9y ago
That service should be provided by the government, not a privileged special interest group.
- eksu 9y ago
  The government should be providing a sense of community and belief system?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    So they need $70B to provide a sense of community and belief system?
    - gscott 9y ago
      They already indoctrinate children with a belief system through public schools. Liberal types are going crazy over charter schools where children get a better education but less indoctrination (both of my children have gone to public schools and charter schools). Another 70 billion to do more of this? I don't think so.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- tete 9y ago
  I agree, however as someone coming from Europe I don't think that's easily possible. The US seems to require means that don't sound socialist/communist to some people. A lot of investment and subsidization into common good seems to go the route through lowered or absence of taxes and other laws (non profits, churches, etc.) and military (either research, that is later released to the public, and that's not just GPS or infrastructure and services, welfare, education for the poor, if they join the military). To me it seems that both churches and military investment (in the very broad) are essential and integral for the stability of the US. I think whether this should be changed is debatable, however I don't think this can be done over night, as it would destroy said stability. Even if a majority could be gained for such a project I think it would have to be a very slow process, as so many other things are built on this foundation and many things seem to have been optimized for this system over time. However, I am not an expert by any means and just rely on what I see, hear and think when I compare it with Europe. The only thing I have learned is that telling people to do it like others isn't something that can just be done - while keeping some stability that is.
lordfoom 9y ago
>Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Nah.

Invictus0 9y ago

Yeah, as if China spends every dime efficiently... Their Great Firewall and associated censorship likely adds up to tens of billions per year.

pjmlp 9y ago

And they even sign the climate agreements.

adventured 9y ago
While producing three times the CO2 output per dollar of GDP that the US does, with no intention of slowing their CO2 growth at all. Quite the accomplishment, signing some agreements that hold them accountable to nothing, while the US is actually reducing its CO2 emissions by abandoning coal.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  I though your government was stating there is no need to protect the environment, as it is the product of a collective phantasy of so called researchers.
- averagewall 9y ago
  Per GDP dollar? That scales with population so you're basically saying bigger countries emit more CO2. You cherry picked a way of measuring it that makes it look bad but hides the underlying cause that's not bad - lots of people. Per capita, the US has double the CO2 emissions than China. No intention of slowing it? They're building more nuclear plants than anyone else.
- Boothroid 9y ago
  I'd be willing to bet that the US's lifetime emissions vastly outweigh China's lifetime emissions. The US is in no position to lecture anyone.

tete 9y ago

On the government level, maybe. On the overall population it's interesting. Many people don't consider themselves religious, when they do practice rituals to please gods. I however am not sure how much of this is tradition and habit, vs believing. Nevertheless, I found it interesting how practicing "Chinese folk religion" and still calling yourself an atheist seems to not really raise eyebrows. It would be interesting to hear of someone having more insight, as I only got this off the internet.

tmalsburg2 9y ago
Atheism means literally "no god-ism", and since there are religious belief systems that don't involve gods, there is not necessarily a contradiction here.

odiroot 9y ago

China, as you so easily collectively defined, believes in million things; not better and not worse than US believers. Yours is really an useless argument. This is more about consolidation of power.

thejosh 9y ago

Yeah, its citizens are free to do what they please, right.

lin_lin 9y ago

Hilarious shoe-horning in of your personal gripe. When was the vote to decide between computing funding and religious stuff?

wellboy 9y ago
If the $70B werent used for the church it would be used for other things, including supercomputing. His statement has some weight.
- lin_lin 9y ago
  > including supercomputing No, not true at all. > His statement has some weight. Only in so far as you could make the argument about any of the other spendings of the US government and shoe-horn it in.
ssijak 9y ago
Well, you also have Kathleen Hartnett White as the new head of the White House’s Council on Environmental Quality who majored in religion and is global warming denier. And many other.
- lin_lin 9y ago
  I fail to see what that has to do with supercomputing funding/underfunding due to religious stuff (which I'm guessing is tax breaks).

adventured 9y ago

China is extremely mystical in fact. If you had spent any time there, or knew anything about their culture, you'd already understand that. It's not uncommon, it's completely widspread throughout their society. See: their cultural obsessions with numerology, superstitions, fate, luck, etc.

sremani 9y ago

Intel, AMD, Nvidia are American companies, I certainly do not see what believing God has to do with Chinese computing. Do you know that Issac Newton spent a third of his time trying to decipher "secrets" and prophecies of bible? God or Science is a false choice, its usually propagated by people who know price of everything and value of nothing!