6 ms·

A lot of feminists think this denies networking opportunities for women.

by shifter 9y ago

gozur88 9y ago
The feminists created the environment in which it becomes the smart thing to do.
- nothrabannosir 9y ago
  No, the people committing sexual assault did.
- sitkack 9y ago
  > The feminists The people who think women should be equal ...
  - gozur88 9y ago
    Sure. Just like the communists thought people should be equal.
    - sitkack 9y ago
      So in your mind, personal and social equality are equated two things, Communism and Feminism? Could you explain this?
      - gozur88 9y ago
        I'll explain it this way: Both the feminists and the communists espouse equality as a tool to get what they're really after - power.
    - throwawaymanbot 9y ago
      Wow.... comments like that can get you banned from places like this.
    - sctb 9y ago
      This is getting crazy. Can we please not do this? > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - abiox 9y ago
    i think that to many this is almost comically reductive, if not an outright red herring. (not that 'the feminists' is a super useful term.)
Frondo 9y ago
When men openly discuss not meeting with women because of a fear of being falsely accused (which itself is exceedingly rare) of inappropriate behavior or molestation, what are women supposed to conclude? That they aren't being denied networking opportunities or opportunities to build working relationships? What is a positive take-away for women from powerful or monied men saying, in public, "I am afraid of meeting with women, so I no longer will"? For the record, I'm a dude and when I hear men say this, I think much less of them--for being cowardly and shutting women out of industry for their cowardice.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  I think we lack empathy. How would we men feel if the situation was switched? At work we discussed a customer who wouldn't shake hands with women because of his religion. A coworker said that's not sexist and the company should accommodate the customer. I asked him how he'd feel if a customer's religion bars handshakes with white dudes. He looked down and had no response.
- sitkack 9y ago
  What if white bosses said the same things about black employees? People's unit tests are tots broke.
  - abiox 9y ago
    i suppose it depends on there being a similar circumstance. if accusations of interpersonal 'racial harassment' became more regular, you would probably see a shift in behavior with some people going out of their way to avoid 'risky' situations.
    - sitkack 9y ago
      The chicken littles claiming this problem exists in the first place are publicly scared they are next. This they admit outright. I'd wager that people making these claims probably _do_ have this as a risk, for good reason.
astura 9y ago
I'm a woman and I am a feminist. Unless you are an actor or dancer any sort of touching with coworkers is very inappropriate for all genders, sexual or non sexual touching included. Keeping your work and professional lives separate is just good sense. It's rude to make comments about other people's appearances unless you are very close friends with them. Closed door meetings are sometimes needed but you should never do them excessively or with only the young or attractive, that looks like you're being inappropriate. Basically, it's just professionalism and should apply to everyone, all genders. I an friendly with my colleagues but I don't want to be friends with them. I prefer to keep my professional relationships professional and my personal relationships personal.
- aaron695 9y ago
  As such I would not want to work with you or hire you, man or woman. Work is the majority of many peoples lives. Human touch is fucking important to most homosapians and is used continiuosly and importantly in most interactions (like other things like the obvious talking but also smell and body language) I understand you might have a disorder or be atypical but the problem is you seem to think societies entire wellbeing should be reduced for your own wellbeing rather than dealing with your atypicalness or disability.
  - abiox 9y ago
    > Human touch is fucking important if it's important to you, that's why you have friends and family. i'm sure as an adult you can handle not fondling other adults at work, because even if you think 'it's important', you don't know what kind of space other people are in and how they feel about you touching them.
    - aaron695 9y ago
      I assume english is not your first language. Fondling is not even close to the word touching. Fondling is about sexuality. Touching is a physical action. You touch a cup. You touch a dog. You touch a touch screen. You touch someone when you shake their hand. Roughly, you can't fondle a cup. You wouldn't say you fondle a dog, and you won't say you fondle friends and family. (And I do know spaces my workmates are in... as much as family and friends, so should you if you are able. Human beings matter, a workplace is more than money)

A lot of feminists think this denies networking opportunities for women.

gozur88 9y ago

The feminists created the environment in which it becomes the smart thing to do.

nothrabannosir 9y ago
No, the people committing sexual assault did.
sitkack 9y ago
> The feminists The people who think women should be equal ...
- gozur88 9y ago
  Sure. Just like the communists thought people should be equal.
  - sitkack 9y ago
    So in your mind, personal and social equality are equated two things, Communism and Feminism? Could you explain this?
    - gozur88 9y ago
      I'll explain it this way: Both the feminists and the communists espouse equality as a tool to get what they're really after - power.
  - throwawaymanbot 9y ago
    Wow.... comments like that can get you banned from places like this.
  - sctb 9y ago
    This is getting crazy. Can we please not do this? > Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- abiox 9y ago
  i think that to many this is almost comically reductive, if not an outright red herring. (not that 'the feminists' is a super useful term.)

Frondo 9y ago

When men openly discuss not meeting with women because of a fear of being falsely accused (which itself is exceedingly rare) of inappropriate behavior or molestation, what are women supposed to conclude? That they aren't being denied networking opportunities or opportunities to build working relationships? What is a positive take-away for women from powerful or monied men saying, in public, "I am afraid of meeting with women, so I no longer will"? For the record, I'm a dude and when I hear men say this, I think much less of them--for being cowardly and shutting women out of industry for their cowardice.

kelukelugames 9y ago
I think we lack empathy. How would we men feel if the situation was switched? At work we discussed a customer who wouldn't shake hands with women because of his religion. A coworker said that's not sexist and the company should accommodate the customer. I asked him how he'd feel if a customer's religion bars handshakes with white dudes. He looked down and had no response.
sitkack 9y ago
What if white bosses said the same things about black employees? People's unit tests are tots broke.
- abiox 9y ago
  i suppose it depends on there being a similar circumstance. if accusations of interpersonal 'racial harassment' became more regular, you would probably see a shift in behavior with some people going out of their way to avoid 'risky' situations.
  - sitkack 9y ago
    The chicken littles claiming this problem exists in the first place are publicly scared they are next. This they admit outright. I'd wager that people making these claims probably _do_ have this as a risk, for good reason.

astura 9y ago

I'm a woman and I am a feminist. Unless you are an actor or dancer any sort of touching with coworkers is very inappropriate for all genders, sexual or non sexual touching included. Keeping your work and professional lives separate is just good sense. It's rude to make comments about other people's appearances unless you are very close friends with them. Closed door meetings are sometimes needed but you should never do them excessively or with only the young or attractive, that looks like you're being inappropriate. Basically, it's just professionalism and should apply to everyone, all genders. I an friendly with my colleagues but I don't want to be friends with them. I prefer to keep my professional relationships professional and my personal relationships personal.

aaron695 9y ago
As such I would not want to work with you or hire you, man or woman. Work is the majority of many peoples lives. Human touch is fucking important to most homosapians and is used continiuosly and importantly in most interactions (like other things like the obvious talking but also smell and body language) I understand you might have a disorder or be atypical but the problem is you seem to think societies entire wellbeing should be reduced for your own wellbeing rather than dealing with your atypicalness or disability.
- abiox 9y ago
  > Human touch is fucking important if it's important to you, that's why you have friends and family. i'm sure as an adult you can handle not fondling other adults at work, because even if you think 'it's important', you don't know what kind of space other people are in and how they feel about you touching them.
  - aaron695 9y ago
    I assume english is not your first language. Fondling is not even close to the word touching. Fondling is about sexuality. Touching is a physical action. You touch a cup. You touch a dog. You touch a touch screen. You touch someone when you shake their hand. Roughly, you can't fondle a cup. You wouldn't say you fondle a dog, and you won't say you fondle friends and family. (And I do know spaces my workmates are in... as much as family and friends, so should you if you are able. Human beings matter, a workplace is more than money)