5 ms·

If true, the 2 SEALs will be executed. I believe the military still hangs people for this. Good.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago
> A second former Africa Command official said Brig. Gen. Donald Bolduc, then commander of Special Operations Command-Africa, was skeptical of the initial reports from the outset. He alerted Army Criminal Investigation Command and told commanders in Mali to preserve evidence I don’t know if they will be hanged, but I agree that the military tends to have swift justice. Fortunately there are still men and women with integrity working in and for our government.
- maxerickson 9y ago
  I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with the quote, but the context there is that the general was skeptical about the report the SEALs filed about the death of the Green Beret.
- pvg 9y ago
  the military tends to have swift justice. Not for capital cases, which themselves are quite rare. The military hasn't executed anyone for over 50 years. There are people on death row, the one closest to execution was convicted in 1988. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military#Reinstatement_of_the_military_death_penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unit...
- StanislavPetrov 9y ago
  > Fortunately there are still men and women with integrity working in and for our government. There are millions of people working in and for the government. Its only natural that a few with integrity would slip through the cracks.
otoburb 9y ago
>>I believe the military still hangs people for this I don't know why I didn't believe you at first, but I was wrong[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unit...
- csa 9y ago
  "Currently, lethal injection is the only method."
  - otoburb 9y ago
    I didn't properly clarify in my parent comment that I was in an initial state of disbelief of the US military using any form of capital punishment. You're right though - if convicted, looks like the sentence would be carried out by lethal injection, and not a hanging.
    - Domenic_S 9y ago
      Seems like clubbing is the more appropriate method. (I know HN hates jokes but come on, this was a beautiful set up)
      - sitkack 9y ago
        Green<Beret>Peace would totally object.
warent 9y ago
Perpetuating violence against humans is good?
- rexpop 9y ago
  You're being downvoted by the lazy neoliberals, but I sympathize with you. The men should be integrated back into society via restorative justice.
  - throwahey 9y ago
    No he's being down voted by sensible people who believe in punishment that fits the crime. Putting a murderer to death will not bring back those lost, but at least it may deter others from doing the same.
    - mmdkri7 9y ago
      Death penalty is on the books People are executed under those laws People keep killing You can’t explain that!
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      Whoa, this conversation isn't heading anywhere productive. Can we try to focus on intellectual gratification? It's better to teach each other about the world.
      - tryingagainbro 9y ago
        >>It's better to teach each other about the world. 100% agree with you. Let me try: they are some people who do horrible, horrible things. Unless they are punished severely, other bad people might not fear the consequences. Death or life in jail is an ongoing discussion among different people
    - simonh 9y ago
      Would you agree that the decision to take lives on the basis of a theory should require a very high bar in terms of evidence in favour of that theory? If I could show you a ‘massive amount of evidence’ that deterrence does not work, would you reconsider? https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articl... The problem I have with the death penalty is not that these people deserve to die. Many of those condemned to death certainly do deserve to die. The problem is that many of them certainly don’t deserve to die and some of them are almost certainly innocent, and a few have even been proven to have been innocent. All in service of a justification that holds no water anyway. It’s a form of punishment that leads down a slippery slope into deeply immoral territory and has twisted the US justice system into contortions. So while some criminals do deserve death, I’m willing to accept merely locking them up for the rest of their natural lives instead. Sometimes it turns out those condemned to death didn’t deserve it after all and the use of such a divisive and irreversible sanction makes getting to the truth in such cases very difficult.
leoc 9y ago
The question to ask is what made a caper as ballsy as this seem like a good idea to these chaps. It suggests a culture of impunity which is likely to mostly affect other people who are not so dear to the US military and government as a serving US Green Beret in good standing. And indeed: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-... > “You can’t win an investigation on us,” one former SEAL Team 6 leader told me. “You don’t whistleblow on the teams … and when you win on the battlefield, you don’t lose investigations.”
- potta_coffee 9y ago
  Seals are the golden children of the US military. Lots of nightmare stories out there of Seals "getting away with murder".
- leroy_masochist 9y ago
  There is a big, big difference between the kind of investigation that goes into the extrajudicial killing / corpse mutilation of enemy combatants (as alleged in the Intercept article you quote) vs. the kind of investigation that goes into the murder of another member of the uniformed services. ESPECIALLY given that the victim was a Green Beret and the alleged murderers are Team guys. ARSOC is going to be out for blood here. This is going to be the mother of all command investigations.
  - leoc 9y ago
    > There is a big, big difference between the kind of investigation that goes into the extrajudicial killing / corpse mutilation of enemy combatants (as alleged in the Intercept article you quote) vs. the kind of investigation that goes into the murder of another member of the uniformed services. Indeed, but this supports my point, no? If things have got to the point where brazenly fragging a Green Beret in base starts to look remotely like something you might reasonably do and might have decent odds of getting away with, then it seems probable the chain is already off completely when it comes to dealing with 'lesser lifeforms'.
    - 9y ago
tryingagainbro 9y ago
From the story it wasn't premeditated, probably got into a fight over the stolen cash and they tried to "knock some sense into him" the way they knew. It doesn't bring him back, no, but given that they panicked makes it seems like they didn't plan on killing him. They would have planned it better:somewhere on the streets and maybe kill the "killer"...some informant coming to a meeting.

> A second former Africa Command official said Brig. Gen. Donald Bolduc, then commander of Special Operations Command-Africa, was skeptical of the initial reports from the outset. He alerted Army Criminal Investigation Command and told commanders in Mali to preserve evidence I don’t know if they will be hanged, but I agree that the military tends to have swift justice. Fortunately there are still men and women with integrity working in and for our government.

maxerickson 9y ago
I'm not sure what you are trying to convey with the quote, but the context there is that the general was skeptical about the report the SEALs filed about the death of the Green Beret.
pvg 9y ago
the military tends to have swift justice. Not for capital cases, which themselves are quite rare. The military hasn't executed anyone for over 50 years. There are people on death row, the one closest to execution was convicted in 1988. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military#Reinstatement_of_the_military_death_penalty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unit...
StanislavPetrov 9y ago
> Fortunately there are still men and women with integrity working in and for our government. There are millions of people working in and for the government. Its only natural that a few with integrity would slip through the cracks.

otoburb 9y ago

>>I believe the military still hangs people for this I don't know why I didn't believe you at first, but I was wrong[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_United_States_military https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_the_Unit...

csa 9y ago
"Currently, lethal injection is the only method."
- otoburb 9y ago
  I didn't properly clarify in my parent comment that I was in an initial state of disbelief of the US military using any form of capital punishment. You're right though - if convicted, looks like the sentence would be carried out by lethal injection, and not a hanging.
  - Domenic_S 9y ago
    Seems like clubbing is the more appropriate method. (I know HN hates jokes but come on, this was a beautiful set up)
    - sitkack 9y ago
      Green<Beret>Peace would totally object.

warent 9y ago

Perpetuating violence against humans is good?

rexpop 9y ago
You're being downvoted by the lazy neoliberals, but I sympathize with you. The men should be integrated back into society via restorative justice.
- throwahey 9y ago
  No he's being down voted by sensible people who believe in punishment that fits the crime. Putting a murderer to death will not bring back those lost, but at least it may deter others from doing the same.
  - mmdkri7 9y ago
    Death penalty is on the books People are executed under those laws People keep killing You can’t explain that!
  - sillysaurus3 9y ago
    Whoa, this conversation isn't heading anywhere productive. Can we try to focus on intellectual gratification? It's better to teach each other about the world.
    - tryingagainbro 9y ago
      >>It's better to teach each other about the world. 100% agree with you. Let me try: they are some people who do horrible, horrible things. Unless they are punished severely, other bad people might not fear the consequences. Death or life in jail is an ongoing discussion among different people
  - simonh 9y ago
    Would you agree that the decision to take lives on the basis of a theory should require a very high bar in terms of evidence in favour of that theory? If I could show you a ‘massive amount of evidence’ that deterrence does not work, would you reconsider? https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articl... The problem I have with the death penalty is not that these people deserve to die. Many of those condemned to death certainly do deserve to die. The problem is that many of them certainly don’t deserve to die and some of them are almost certainly innocent, and a few have even been proven to have been innocent. All in service of a justification that holds no water anyway. It’s a form of punishment that leads down a slippery slope into deeply immoral territory and has twisted the US justice system into contortions. So while some criminals do deserve death, I’m willing to accept merely locking them up for the rest of their natural lives instead. Sometimes it turns out those condemned to death didn’t deserve it after all and the use of such a divisive and irreversible sanction makes getting to the truth in such cases very difficult.

leoc 9y ago

The question to ask is what made a caper as ballsy as this seem like a good idea to these chaps. It suggests a culture of impunity which is likely to mostly affect other people who are not so dear to the US military and government as a serving US Green Beret in good standing. And indeed: https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-6/ https://theintercept.com/2017/01/10/the-crimes-of-seal-team-... > “You can’t win an investigation on us,” one former SEAL Team 6 leader told me. “You don’t whistleblow on the teams … and when you win on the battlefield, you don’t lose investigations.”

potta_coffee 9y ago
Seals are the golden children of the US military. Lots of nightmare stories out there of Seals "getting away with murder".
leroy_masochist 9y ago
There is a big, big difference between the kind of investigation that goes into the extrajudicial killing / corpse mutilation of enemy combatants (as alleged in the Intercept article you quote) vs. the kind of investigation that goes into the murder of another member of the uniformed services. ESPECIALLY given that the victim was a Green Beret and the alleged murderers are Team guys. ARSOC is going to be out for blood here. This is going to be the mother of all command investigations.
- leoc 9y ago
  > There is a big, big difference between the kind of investigation that goes into the extrajudicial killing / corpse mutilation of enemy combatants (as alleged in the Intercept article you quote) vs. the kind of investigation that goes into the murder of another member of the uniformed services. Indeed, but this supports my point, no? If things have got to the point where brazenly fragging a Green Beret in base starts to look remotely like something you might reasonably do and might have decent odds of getting away with, then it seems probable the chain is already off completely when it comes to dealing with 'lesser lifeforms'.
  - 9y ago

tryingagainbro 9y ago

From the story it wasn't premeditated, probably got into a fight over the stolen cash and they tried to "knock some sense into him" the way they knew. It doesn't bring him back, no, but given that they panicked makes it seems like they didn't plan on killing him. They would have planned it better:somewhere on the streets and maybe kill the "killer"...some informant coming to a meeting.